Great musicians of the 20th century

[ajay124]

@sunil
When I began this thread on popular music,my intentions were probably exclusive.To post on what I considered the best.I changed course later,to make this thread more inclusive.You might have noticed,that there is more of rock and less of jazz on this thread recently
For a thread/debate/forum to remain healthy and sustain interest,it is essential to accomodate diverse taste and opinions.A couple of times,somebody innocently posted something he liked and I retorted thoughtlessly about why his choice was wrong.Later I felt bad about it.Now,I don't submit without reviewing what I have written.
Personally I have never been a fan of heavy metal or country.Find the former too shrill and the latter too bland.But then when I was in college,if somebody had played Nat King Cole to me I would have nodded off.Now I like him better than Dylan.Different time.Different people.Different genres.
Something for Moktan with whom I share affinities.
Music without boundaries!
YouTube - Albert Ayler - Ghosts

 

[ssf]

Ajay,

I am missing your posts on classical music.

Regards,

Sunil.

 

[iaudio]

^Music without boundaries....

I guess my mind is yet to cross them!

Edit: too late, the post was in reply to ajays last post and not ssf.

 

[harry123456]

I too have never been a fan of heavy metal but i have enjoyed listening to some tunes during my adolescence years. You like certain kinds of food when you are young and then as you age you develop intolerance to certain foods (music) as you grow old.
As a young boy i loved milk but now iam Lactose intolerant.( says the Doc)
Same goes for certain kind of music as we age.What is music to kids today may sound like noise to us.
Dead Confederate a lil known band for you metal lovers which has a mix of grunge , psychedelic and Southern rock influences singing "The Rat". Can still listen and enjoy this rock grunge.

YouTube - Dead Confederate "The Rat"

 

[moktan]

Do you still listen to the Celtic King Ajay
Was browsing through some cassettes in a small music store near park street, when the album covers classic microphone caught my attention.

Remember buying this cassette (The Best Of Van Morrison) in Calcutta in 1991. Listening to it the first time got me interested in the Celtic kings music.

Alternative Wisdom : Sometimes you should judge the book by its cover.

Since mention here is being made of the Celtic king, i wonder if anyone has heard The Pogues...if someone is into celtic music and that kind of thing, these guys are quite good..though like other folk music or folk fusion i found them repetitive and musically constrained by the genre...
another more creative band was The Waterboys..their Appointment With Mr Yeats, (I am reminding of Morrison's own Poetic Champions Compose, a little too insipid, uninspired and flat for my liking) in which about 20 Yeats' poems were put to music was critically acclaimed..an older favorite is The Whole Of The Moon...and just as I was thinking all along that this band was Irish, Wiki rescues me from my ignorance by telling me that they were actually a Scottish band...but their music is optimistic, fresh and uplifting..

 

[ajay124]

^Music without boundaries....

I guess my mind is yet to cross them!

Edit: too late, the post was in reply to ajays last post and not ssf.

@iaudio
Until a few centuries back,moving an army of soldiers,horses,elephants,
cannons,harems was a logistical nightmare,especially when they were approaching enemy terrain.Most armies had an advance guard of brave soldiers,who could survive in an unknown and hostile environment.They mapped out the terrain,it's sanctuaries and hidden dangers.They protected the main army from blundering into the unknown.This advanced guard was referred to as Avant-Garde in French.
In modern times,critics started using this term to describe the advanced guard of writers,painters,musicians,film makers who dared to experiment and push the boundaries while the mainstream played it safe.
Not all experimental stuff is good.Some of it may be a gimmick to hide a lack of talent.An artist can get away with it,because experimental stuff is meant for future generations,not something which the present generation can easily comprehend.It is only with hindsight,that the world recognises and acknowledges where the main-stream broke off and started flowing in a new direction.A small stream,then a rivulet,then a river.By the time it becomes a river,the avant garde has rejected it and moved on to fresh uncharted territory.
Jazz originated in New Orleans in the 1920's.The music was more like a marching band,with a trumpeteer leading and the rest of the band following.
In the early 30's the scene shifted to Chicago and jazz got a new name,Dixieland.
In the mid 30's,musicians started notating music,instead of merely improvising on the spot.This became the 'Swing' or the 'Big Band' era.Swing introduced the 'white' audience to what was earlier 'fringe','low culture' music.Louis Armstrong,Duke Ellington and Count Basie were among the first stars of Jazz.
The Duke scored a hit with 'It don't mean a thing,if ain't got that swing'.
World War 2 sounded the death knell for big,expensive to maintain bands,paving the way for the most exciting and explosive era of Jazz.BEBOP!Dizzy Gillespie and Charlie Parker,with their trumpet and alto sax respectively,were the advance guard for a new sound.A sound which most jazz musicians would borrow and be inspired by for many years to come.Bebop finished off the big bands.Solo musicians like Diz,Bird and Monk backed by 3-4 musicians became the new stars.
The 50's saw other movements like Cool jazz and Bossa Novabut Bebop ruled,until a gentleman by the name of John Coltrane came along and started improvising a rapid succession of notes,which came to be known as sheets of sound.Ornette Coleman,Cecil Taylor and John Coltrane sounded the opening note for a new avant garde.They shocked the purists who called their experiments free jazz and even anti jazz.Other musicians in the vanguard of this movement were Charles Mingus,Eric Dolphy,Albert Ayler,Pharoah Sanders,Rashid Ali.Free jazz musicians rebelled against the discipline and fixed chord changes of Bebop and earlier forms of jazz.They ventured out into a new land without boundaries.Some drifted and lost their way,but a few planted the first flags on the new frontiers of jazz.
Long post!
But if somebody wants a rapid one session listen through the history of jazz
Louis Armstrong's hot 5 and hot 7 sessions(1920's)
Duke Ellington's (1930's)
Dizzy Gillespie (1940's)
Charlie Parker (1940's)
Sonny Rollins (1950's)
Miles Davis (1950's)
Thelonious Monk (1950's)
Dave Brubeck (1950's)
John Coltrane (1960's)
Ornette Coleman (1960's)
with Charles Mingus,Eric Dolphy and Albert Ayler for a sweet?bitter? dessert

 

[jls001]

In modern times,critics started using this term to describe the advanced guard of writers,painters,musicians,film makers who dared to experiment and push the boundaries while the mainstream played it safe.
Not all experimental stuff is good.Some of it may be a gimmick to hide a lack of talent.An artist can get away with it,because experimental stuff is meant for future generations,not something which the present generation can easily comprehend.It is only with hindsight,that the world recognises and acknowledges where the main-stream broke off and started flowing in a new direction.A small stream,then a rivulet,then a river.By the time it becomes a river,the avant garde has rejected it and moved on to fresh uncharted territory.

That's one hell of a compact, yet precise write-up on the history of Jazz. And thanks for the history of the often abused term avant garde.
Joshua

 

[thevortex]

More from the Celtic King
YouTube - Van Morrison - Baby Please Don't Go
YouTube - moondance van morrison

This thread has been fantastic, Ajay. Do keep it up. It has given me several artists to explore as I am sure it did for others here.

Small observation. I listened to 'Moondance' by Van Morrison just now and cannot help but feel that Michael Buble's version of the same song was far more evocative, appealing and musical. Have you heard Buble's version?

 

[thevortex]

@Suri
Both Roy Orbinson and David Byrne have that extra 'inflection' in the way they 'sing' their words.Thats what makes them special.Roy Orbinson,does sing with pursed,'closed in' lips,but he uses his voice like a fine tuned instument.A guitar or a violin in the hand of a master.His voice travels into regions where only the best singers would be able to follow.The guys I consider better than Roy are all black,Ray Charles,Nat King Cole,Louis Armstrong,James Brown and Sam Cooke (Otis Redding,Marvin Gaye,Lou Rawls are also pretty good)
Among the whites,Elvis Presley,Van Morrison,Steve Winwood,Art Garfunkel,David Byrne,David Bowie,Elton John,Jim Morrison,Mick Jagger,Donald Fagen,Roger Daltrey,Robert Plant,Freddie Mercury,Don Henley have good voices,but personally I like Roy Orbinson the most.
Phil Ochs,Bob Dylan,Leonard Cohen,Neil Young,John Lennon have distinctive voices and also the power of great lyrics to go with them.
'Heaven' 30 times!!!!!OMG

Roy Orbison's is a distinctive voice indeed. I would not say that only the best singers could follow him where he went (with his voice). Roy's was almost a falsetto. A male singer engaging the higher octaves is on the rarer side. You could just have a bassy voice and still be a very good singer.

I am going to listen to the other black artistes that you have mentioned. I would love to know how much better they are, if at all, than Roy Orbison - purely based on vocals.

Harry Belafonte was not bad at all. Wonderful clear, ringing voice and used it well.

 

[ajay124]

Ray Charles,Willie Nelson
Seven Spanish Angels
YouTube - Ray Charles & Willy Nelson - Seven Spanish Angels - With Lyrics - HD

 

[moktan]

@iaudio

In the mid 30's,musicians started notating music,instead of merely improvising on the spot.This became the 'Swing' or the 'Big Band' era.Swing introduced the 'white' audience to what was earlier 'fringe','low culture' music.Louis Armstrong,Duke Ellington and Count Basie were among the first stars of Jazz.
The Duke scored a hit with 'It don't mean a thing,if ain't got that swing'.
World War 2 sounded the death knell for big,expensive to maintain bands,paving the way for the most exciting and explosive era of Jazz.BEBOP!Dizzy Gillespie and Charlie Parker,with their trumpet and alto sax respectively,were the advance guard for a new sound.A sound which most jazz musicians would borrow and be inspired by for many years to come.Bebop finished off the big bands.Solo musicians like Diz,Bird and Monk backed by 3-4 musicians became the new stars.
The 50's saw other movements like Cool jazz and Bossa Novabut Bebop ruled,until a gentleman by the name of John Coltrane came along and started improvising a rapid succession of notes,which came to be known as sheets of sound.Ornette Coleman,Cecil Taylor and John Coltrane sounded the opening note for a new avant garde.They shocked the purists who called their experiments free jazz and even anti jazz.Other musicians in the vanguard of this movement were Charles Mingus,Eric Dolphy,Albert Ayler,Pharoah Sanders,Rashid Ali.Free jazz musicians rebelled against the discipline and fixed chord changes of Bebop and earlier forms of jazz.They ventured out into a new land without boundaries.Some drifted and lost their way,but a few planted the first flags on the new frontiers of jazz.
Long post!
But if somebody wants a rapid one session listen through the history of jazz
Louis Armstrong's hot 5 and hot 7 sessions(1920's)
Duke Ellington's (1930's)
Dizzy Gillespie (1940's)
Charlie Parker (1940's)
Sonny Rollins (1950's)
Miles Davis (1950's)
Thelonious Monk (1950's)
Dave Brubeck (1950's)
John Coltrane (1960's)
Ornette Coleman (1960's)
with Charles Mingus,Eric Dolphy and Albert Ayler for a sweet?bitter? dessert

swing was the first negro phenomenon to pass into world culture (today the blacks lead that revolution in popular entertainment with R&B, rap, hiphop etc)..however soon swing began to give jazz a bad name, since it just revolved around big bands producing dance music, it was an industry and not an art-the main thing being record sales..however it did give the blacks a taste of commercial success, because they discovered that money could be made by entertaining white folks...however post the second world war, that initial 'capitalistic euphoria' had subsided...and a few wanted cultural emancipation to follow material success...
enter Bebop...
intellectual jazz men wanted to send out a musical message that was not sold out to the dictates of the masses...thus a music that was personal, introverted, heartfelt and idiosyncratic..a music to listen to and not dance to..
jazz men moved out of the comfort zone of being mere entertainers..they became artists, experimenters... the process of subversion had been set afoot and it was natural that more esoteric and extreme experimentation such as those that which lead to free jazz etc would follow....
my two pence borrowed mainly from books i have read on jazz....

 

[Rajiv]

Hi,


YouTube - MORNING HAS BROKEN [by MR. AARON NEVILLE]


Lets start the day with a great version of Cat Stevens classic song.

Arron Neville has a truly great voice.I first heard Arron on the Duet album with Linda Ronstadt,and loved it.

YouTube - Don't Know Much-Ronstadt & Neville LIVE


Rajiv

 

[ajay124]

Roy Orbison's is a distinctive voice indeed. I would not say that only the best singers could follow him where he went (with his voice). Roy's was almost a falsetto. A male singer engaging the higher octaves is on the rarer side. You could just have a bassy voice and still be a very good singer.

I am going to listen to the other black artistes that you have mentioned. I would love to know how much better they are, if at all, than Roy Orbison - purely based on vocals.

Harry Belafonte was not bad at all. Wonderful clear, ringing voice and used it well.

My Favorite Belafonte.A song I've been listening to and singing (badly) since forever...
YouTube - "Jamaican Farewell"- HARRY BELAFONTE
The Vinyl sound is palpably real here.A CD recording would probably destroy the mood of this song.

 

[shredder]

@sunil

Personally I have never been a fan of heavy metal or country.Find the former too shrill and the latter too bland.But then when I was in college,if somebody had played Nat King Cole to me I would have nodded off.Now I like him better than Dylan.Different time.Different people.Different genres.
Something for Moktan with whom I share affinities.

To each his own as they say.
But I would like to clear up some common misconceptions about the two genres referred to above. Metal is often stereotyped as shrill. And for good reason since most heavy metal is characterized by high-pitched vocals and guitar riffs which are played high up on the guitar fretboard. (The reason why metal riffs are played higher end of the fretboard is not so much to get a shrill noise as to facilitate greater speed, since the frets are smaller. And a quality we generally associate with metal is the fast tempo). But as I mentioned in my earlier post, Manowar's music is different, shattering most of the stereotypes about metal. And the classical influence of Wagner is unmistakeable. Listen to their songs such as "Heart of Steel",
"Mountains", "Crown and Ring" and you will change your mind about metal.

Now on to country music as bland. Nothing could be further from the truth. The reason why some people see it as bland is that India is not exactly Nashville, and when speaking of country we generally think of John Denver,
Don Williams, Willie Nelson, Dixie Chicks (with their prominent banjo sound) and maybe Hank Williams. Truth to speak country music is not at all bland. Listen to the likes of Dwight Yoakam and Buck Owens and their music reveals a whole new dimension to country music. The vocals of Emmylou Harris will give a new definition to the word "soulful". And the guitaring dexterity of James Burton will put many of our new so-called "guitar gods" to shame. Talk about speed?? Listen to Albert Lee's playing and you will get new ideas about speed. For eg: Listen to Albert Lee and The Hellecasters take on "Orange Blossom Special".

Hope that this post didn't sound unduly condescending. Just wanted to clear the waters about some common misconceptions.

Now on to an artist whom everyone loves. The great Bob Dylan. I too listen to Bob Dylan and I have some rare Bob Dylan CDs in my collection. But our affection for his music sometimes blinds us Dylan fans to just how ridiculous his voice sounds until we hear someone do a real good imitation of his voice. Watch this link and enjoy. You'll know what I am talking about!

YouTube - Rick Miller performs Bohemian Rhapsody

 

[ajay124]

@Shredder
What you have posted does not sound condescending.It is interesting,informative and nicely written.I may not share some of your musical preferences,but I would like to read more posts about them
The Rick Miller video is Hilarious!

 

[shredder]

I too have never been a fan of heavy metal but i have enjoyed listening to some tunes during my adolescence years. You like certain kinds of food when you are young and then as you age you develop intolerance to certain foods (music) as you grow old.
As a young boy i loved milk but now iam Lactose intolerant.( says the Doc)
Same goes for certain kind of music as we age.What is music to kids today may sound like noise to us.
Dead Confederate a lil known band for you metal lovers which has a mix of grunge , psychedelic and Southern rock influences singing "The Rat". Can still listen and enjoy this rock grunge.

YouTube - Dead Confederate "The Rat"

I understand that you may not have been a fan of heavy metal but it is understandable since the metal scene in India is really sad and bleak. Things have improved slightly since the internet boom has enabled many to have (free??) access to music they would otherwise never be able to have. Here we should pay tribute to Moksha (Chennai) for popularizing metal in India.
Could you let us know what are the metal "tunes" you listened to in your adolescence? In all probability they would be something by Metallica which (in recent years) has become more of Hard Rock. In their last album I listened to, St. ANGER, Metallica sounded more like an angry Offspring. I prefer the Metallica of yesteryears which gave us classics like "Master of Puppets" and "Seek and Destroy".
And I wholeheartedly disagree with the implication that heavy metal (or any kind of music) is something you outgrow, a passing adolescent fad. Maybe music like G'n R is something you outgrow because you cannot be a rebel-without-a-cause all your life. I am sure, though, that music by Britney Spears, Boyzone, Backstreet Boys, is something one SHOULD outgrow and in a hurry.
And the band you have suggested Dead Confederates is not at all metal. They don't sound like metal, they don't have that metal feel at all. The guitar effect they use is not used by any metal band to my knowledge. It's more like some heavy fuzz. At most this band are grunge like Nirvana. The particular number you have posted sounds something like The Cranberries' "Zombie" sung by Coldplay. If this song is metal then the Backstreet Boys' Quit Playing Games would be grunge. wrt this particular song I don't see any Southern Rock influence at all. This particular band was formed in 2006. No wonder they are little known. Bands like theirs are a dime-a-dozen.

 

[ajay124]

When I was young,I and my friends,had the the unquestioned (and unquestionable) assumption that Rock was a far superior genre than Pop.That Pink Floyd was better than Abba/Beegees/Carpenters,because they were louder,flashier,had all those angst laden lyrics and were innovative enough to populate their albums with dogs,pigs,sheep,helicopters,ticking clocks and more.
Personally,I outgrew Floyd after a few years,but I still listen to A/B/C at times.

 

[jls001]

When I was young,I and my friends,had the the unquestioned (and unquestionable) assumption that Rock was a far superior genre than Pop.That Pink Floyd was better than Abba/Beegees/Carpenters,because they were louder,flashier,had all those angst laden lyrics and were innovative enough to populate their albums with dogs,pigs,sheep,helicopters,ticking clocks and more.
Personally,I outgrew Floyd after a few years,but I still listen to A/B/C at times.

Having grown up on a staple of rock and roll (the Beatles were the earliest band I remember listening to) as a young kid, with the occasional pop thrown in, then a change of taste to hard rock and heavy metal during my adolescent years, right up to college days, and even after I started working. Or more accurately, the popular listening in my teenaged peer group changed completely to hard rock and metal, almost to the total exclusion of any other genre, except for what one heard on MTV (yes, the Indian MTV used to play music before they degraded into being a reality show channel and airing promos of filmy songs!). Of course, country and western had always been a staple for me besides hard rock (seemingly diametrical opposites!), though I can't handle bluegrass and folk at all.

It is only now that I am rediscovering the virtues of other genres and bands like the Beegees (now I understand why so many modern day artists cover their songs), America (one of the best acoustic band, IMHO), 80s Britpop (think Tears for Fears, Johny Hates Jazz, Spandau Ballet, Level 42, etc - great lyrics, great musicians all). It is also only now that I have begun to discover the musical virtuosity of jazz-tinged bands like Steely Dan. Another fairly recent discovery for me is Alan Parsons Project. Well recorded, musically accomplished, and adventurous use of synthesizers without degrading into electronica (not that electronica is bad, per se - just that it's still not my type of music though I have a couple of Kraftwerk records).

Also, for some irrational reason, I rarely ever listened to female vocalists. That has changed and now I am discovering the velvette in Diana Krall, Norah Jones, Katie Melua, and most recently, Diane Birch (thanks, malvai, though listening to it on my modest system is not a patch on listening to it at your place ).

Yes, I have outgrown heavy metal, but don't mind the occasional listen. After all, what can replace the energy and driving bass of an Iron Maiden number, or the soulful yet almost mechanical pounding of a Judas Priest number, or the mad thrashing of a Metallica number, or the inventiveness of Nuno Battencourt solo?

Joshua
PS: for those who like train wrecks, please try the best train wreck of them all - Amy Winehouse.
PPS: you can listen to Beatles sung the country way - check out "Come Together - America Pays Tribute to the Beatles" - especially the rendition of The Long and Winding Road.
whew! long post. Thanks for having read thus far.

 

[ssf]

Just for old times sake, I though I will listen to some heavy metal. So I did. In the following order.

1. Manowar's Heart of Steel
2. Manowar's Mountain
3. Iron Maiden - Hallowed be thy name
4. Black Sabbath - War Pigs
5. Judas Priest - Victim of changes

and finally, to some of my old favorites

6. Black Sabbath - Paranoid.
7. AC/DC - Hells Bells

While Paranoid and Hells Bells brought back some nostalgic memories, other than that, nothing.

This is not to mean that something is wrong with Metal. I feel that I must have moved on.

Regards,

Sunil

 

[malvai]

While Paranoid and Hells Bells brought back some nostalgic memories, other than that, nothing.

This is not to mean that something is wrong with Metal. I feel that I must have moved on.

Regards,

Sunil

I feel ya....