HDD Based Player

[raj]

As part of building a HTPC for myself, I have roamed about in Ritchie Street in Chennai extensively and and made a few calls across the country. Conclusion - HTPC cabinets are NOT available in India. Only Antec has a model available and they are very evasive when I speak to them. ITDepot, who are the dealers for Antec have no idea about any HTPC cabinet. I am not sure what is available fro iBall.

There are a couple of companies that make decent HTPC cabinet. Zalman (::: ??? ??? ??? ?? :::) is one but is expensive. Silverstone is another. They have over 15 models ranging in prices. I have shortlisted 4 models

GD01B-R - S$248 (~6000Rs.)
LC13B-E - S$228 (~5500Rs.)
LC17B - S$219 (~5300Rs.)
LC20B-E - S$339 (~8200Rs.)

All these have 8 or 9 bays, 4 to 5 fans/fanbays for cooling, 7 expansion slots, and connection for USB, IEEE, Audio, and MIC. The GD10B-R also has a 52 card reader built in.

Silverstone has four dealers in Singapore, and Prolink Data System have all these models. If you know someone travelling to Singapore, it makes sense to get one of these cabinets. Please check SilverStone Technology Co., Ltd - Designing Inspiration for details about specs and their dealers in Singapore. Most of these models are award winners and would look great in an HT rack.

Cheers

I am going through the same pain now. Hunting around for a slim pc case for the last 4-5 weeks with no success. BTW, theitdepot.com shows some silverstone cabinets. So, you may be able to get it from them.
I am now trying to get a relatively small coolermaster cabinet and get my pc assembled.

 

[thevortex]

As you say, Asus seems to be only company that has made a card with these capabilities, though I expect Creative and Turtle Beach to jum in quickly.

For about 25K (player + card), one can have a full blown Blu-Ray player in addition to processing all DVDs.

I have two questions:

1. Can you elaborate on the driver being shaky?
2. Would there be any problem in using Arcsoft?

Cheers

Venkat - ASUS make very good cards but I am afraid their drivers are not upto scratch. For my own Xonar D2X I am using a modded driver from their latest release (for the Essence STX). Before using this, I did have niggling issues. Nothing major but still niggling.

The HDAV I understand is a whole different bowl of soup. The drivers there are horrible as proclaimed by many many users. But many of the posts I see referenced Vista as the OS. So, I am not sure if too many XP people are experiencing issues. Nevertheless ASUS is due to release a new driver for this card soon and hopefully that will fix things.

Next as far as cabinets go, Coolermaster makes fantastic cabinets. It is also available in India and Chennai. We probably need to check things out at Ritchie Street to see if we can get their higher end cabinets. Please rule out iBall, Mercury and similar brands. They are not of the quality demanded for our use.

The Antec NSK series cabinet available here is not the HTPC variant specifically (in that it does not lay down horizontally like an amp), however that is about the only difference. The innards and the power supply are rock solid and the noise-vibration level is to be experienced to be believed. From what I have seen in Chennai this seems to be the only option unless we can unearth some of those expensive cabinets from Coolermaster.

Lastly there is no problem using Arcsoft. I am not a fan of its intrusive monitor but it does an OK job. However it is focussed on video. Moreover there will be Blu Ray players which would be given to you when you get the Blu Ray drive as well as the HDAV. So, you will have ample software to take you through when you actually play Blu Ray.

Edit - theitdepot now shows Silverstone cabinets for HTPC building. They are expensive but hey there are there now. Wish they were there when I was building mine!

 

[illusion]

As you say, Asus seems to be only company that has made a card with these capabilities, though I expect Creative and Turtle Beach to jum in quickly.

For about 25K (player + card), one can have a full blown Blu-Ray player in addition to processing all DVDs.

I have two questions:

1. Can you elaborate on the driver being shaky?
2. Would there be any problem in using Arcsoft?

Cheers

@venkat - Rightly said here.

Actually Suprateep like you I too had a dream to build and HTPC and the cabinet was the biggest roadblock I have to admit. But you know what Venkat sir here is right . You really dont need a 13k sound card. I bought a Turtle Beach USB sound card from USA for only Rs 1300/-( $30 approx) around a year back and it does a beautiful job. (Linky :- Amazon.com: Audio Advantage Micro USB Sound Card: Electronics). In other words you need to have a TRUEHD capable receiver, which you will be having, hence you just need a dedicated digital audio pass thru device like the Turtle Beach thing here. So the money you save which is quite a lot can easily be spent on sourcing a proper HTPC cabinet .


Have you seen the new slimline Dell Studio XPS desktops ? Any cabinet on similar lines will look more elegant than the silverstone cabinets. The only advantage that the silver stone cabinets have are the display in front which makes it look like a dvd player and not a computer.

 

[illusion]

Oh hell yes !!!

I even started a thread some time back - had a system in mind too (worked around pretty cheap too). Basically thought of this setup only because of the quiet setup this would turn out to be

Gigabyte 78 D2SH ~ 4.5-5k
Ram Transcend 2gb~ 1.4k
Processor: AMD X2 7500 ~3.8k
HDD 1 TB (for the time being) ~ 5.8k
Blue Ray Writer + DVD Writer combo ~11k
Soundcard: ASUS HDAV 1.3 ~ 13k
Cabinet : ROADBLOCK!!!!

All i was getting in Pune was the iball 306/207 - i could have spent 4-5k for a HTPC cabinet but none was to be found here.

Again the HDAV 1.3 is the only card that can bitstream True HD audio via HDMI (problem is the driver is shaky and only works with Arcsoft Theater software which is a particular prop. piece - does not work with other players).

I would have bought a 4200 series cheap display card with HDMI for the cross fire thingy later (am not a gamer anymore - my 3 month kid plays all the games on me - my bloodshot eyes devoid of any sleep are testimony to that).

Plagued by so many problems I decided probably not to go with the HTPC route for the time being - will not be user friendly for clck n watch audience i.e. my wife and parents. Later am definately game for it.

So am going for the i100HD dragontech (specs same as popcorn hour) for the time being.

PS: Though my visit to Mumbai - lamington road this weekend might change that. This is my first visit to LR and the availability of the right stuff there might make me change my mind. I still have time till my Paypal gets activated later into the week.

There is no mention of Graphics card on the specs !

 

[suprateep]

There is no mention of Graphics card on the specs !

the gigabyte motherbaord had an inbuilt Ati 3200 series chip that is more than adequate to play Blueray HD video. I am not inot gaming anymore - or else a later upgrade of ATI can be on the cards.

 

[venkatcr]

Raj, Illusion, TheVortex - Thank you guys.

With ITDepot, there seems to be a huge gap between the cup and the lip. I have a major showroom of ITDepot near my home. A week ago I spent two days explaining to them what a HTPC cabinet is and showing them their own specification. They just kept staring at me as if I was from Mars. Every time I mention HPTC, they come back with 'HDPC'? I even checked with the Indian distributor for Antec. They also had no idea what I was talking about.

Only this Friday I trudged through Ritchie street and went to all the major shops - Supreme, Mahavir, and others. None of them knew what I was talking about. The shopkeeper in Mahavir was sweet enough to inquire even in Mumbai, but came back blank.

I have finally ordered for a GD01B-R from Silverstone from Singapore. It will be brought home by a friend of mine on 4th April.

Cheers

 

[illusion]

Raj, Illusion, TheVortex - Thank you guys.

With ITDepot, there seems to be a huge gap between the cup and the lip. I have a major showroom of ITDepot near my home. A week ago I spent two days explaining to them what a HTPC cabinet is and showing them their own specification. They just kept staring at me as if I was from Mars. Every time I mention HPTC, they come back with 'HDPC'? I even checked with the Indian distributor for Antec. They also had no idea what I was talking about.

Only this Friday I trudged through Ritchie street and went to all the major shops - Supreme, Mahavir, and others. None of them knew what I was talking about. The shopkeeper in Mahavir was sweet enough to inquire even in Mumbai, but came back blank.

I have finally ordered for a GD01B-R from Silverstone from Singapore. It will be brought home by a friend of mine on 4th April.

Cheers

Ok after stumbilng across this thread : http://www.hifivision.com/dvd-players-dvd-hard-disk-recorders/2732-hd-networked-media-tank-nmt.html: I think I am better off without a HTPC.

@Venkatr - why are you going for an HTPC and not a simple product as mentioned in the above thread !

 

[suprateep]

Ok after stumbilng across this thread : http://www.hifivision.com/dvd-players-dvd-hard-disk-recorders/2732-hd-networked-media-tank-nmt.html: I think I am better off without a HTPC.

@Venkatr - why are you going for an HTPC and not a simple product as mentioned in the above thread !

well a HTPC is like Linux - open (source), customizable, flexible and decently user friendly. The cons are time to boot, no simple easy to use media interface (XBMC is ok but slow and hog on resources).

A media tank is faster, closed like Apple, does almost everything, less customizable - but does the job. A lot of user support for these items are available too.

Amongst the media tanks for the budget user its WD TV, for the slightly higer segment its popcorn hour A110, Elektron 606, i100HD dragontech, etc. For the top end its the TVIX 6500/7000 but its not getting much support these days.

 

[illusion]

well a HTPC is like Linux - open (source), customizable, flexible and decently user friendly. The cons are time to boot, no simple easy to use media interface (XBMC is ok but slow and hog on resources).

A media tank is faster, closed like Apple, does almost everything, less customizable - but does the job. A lot of user support for these items are available too.

Amongst the media tanks for the budget user its WD TV, for the slightly higer segment its popcorn hour A110, Elektron 606, i100HD dragontech, etc. For the top end its the TVIX 6500/7000 but its not getting much support these days.

All that is agreed but I personally would like to have everything fullblown be it gaming, movies or music. By fullblown I mean the highest pixel rate, resolution, refresh rate etc. What you really do upgrade in the future is more towards storage and optical drives and not really the cpu or the mobo. Even if you do upgrade the cpu then the upgrades are pretty expenisve as u end up upgrading the mobo(the old mobo becomes incompatible with the new cpu) along with it .I personally had to go for a mobo + cpu upgrade when I upgraded from Pentium 4HT to Core 2 Duo. Plus the power consumption in an HTPC will be much higher than these hdd media players. Besides there will be a huge diff in costs for building an htpc. Do all this really justify an HTPC ?


Even the top end hdd media players are at 50% the cost of a decent HTPC on an avg !

 

[anm]

can these nmts combined with a good NAS handle both the concerns?
or ps3 + nas can address a/v + gaming, while moving the computer out of the living room?

 

[suprateep]

can these nmts combined with a good NAS handle both the concerns?
or ps3 + nas can address a/v + gaming, while moving the computer out of the living room?

for normal usage a ps3 + nas + gaming is a great deal.

Just that ps3 handles HD audio internally internally and passes as LPCM. Catch is the external av receiver cannout hence process the true HD audio.

the nmt can handle the networking part well particularly the pocorn hour (all the NMTs are basically the same). The best part is peace of mind - no fiddling around, instant action (unlike HTPC), and great PQ/SQ quality.

You can the popcorn hour + 1.5 TB HDD within 20k (plus 3k customs if any while shipping the pocorn).

A barebone HTPC can be had around 20k but a good cabinet with sep sound card/ display card and a HTPC cabinet will cost upto 20k extra.

 

[venkatcr]

@Venkatr - why are you going for an HTPC and not a simple product as mentioned in the above thread !

I have a slightly long term perspective. My system consists of the following:

1) Asus P5B Deluxe/WiFi-AP Motherboard
2) Core2Duo Processor
3) 2 TB of HDD
4) 4 GB of RAM
5) High End Sound card
6) Optical Drives

Later
7) High End HDAV Card
8) Blu-Ray Drive

The PC will be placed in the HT Rack and will act as a main music server. I am slowly converting all my music into FLAC AND MP3 files, and have already created some 500GB of files. Since the system has internal WiFi, I will be using a system like Squeezebox to transmit music across the house to small stereo systems with a dedicated 2 channel amp and speakers.

By end of this year, I plan to install a Blu-Ray player and HDAV Card to watch Bu-Ray movies. and to play music in HD formats. My AVR is already equipped for this.

Other than using Worldspace, I want to be able to use my system irrespective of where I am in the house 24 hours a day. I plan to start the HTPC once in the morning, and shut it down only when I go to sleep. So I am not bothered about boot time and all that.

Cheers

 

[suprateep]

I have a slightly long term perspective. My system consists of the following:

1) Asus P5B Deluxe/WiFi-AP Motherboard
2) Core2Duo Processor
3) 2 TB of HDD
4) 4 GB of RAM
5) High End Sound card
6) Optical Drives

Later
7) High End HDAV Card
8) Blu-Ray Drive

The PC will be placed in the HT Rack and will act as a main music server. I am slowly converting all my music into FLAC AND MP3 files, and have already created some 500GB of files. Since the system has internal WiFi, I will be using a system like Squeezebox to transmit music across the house to small stereo systems with a dedicated 2 channel amp and speakers.

By end of this year, I plan to install a Blu-Ray player and HDAV Card to watch Bu-Ray movies. and to play music in HD formats. My AVR is already equipped for this.

Other than using Worldspace, I want to be able to use my system irrespective of where I am in the house 24 hours a day. I plan to start the HTPC once in the morning, and shut it down only when I go to sleep. So I am not bothered about boot time and all that.

Cheers

Great specs man.......will go along with Windows 7 too when its launched later this year. Now fora couple of things:

You want to use this system for music mostly and watching movies -the specs are a overkill. You are also spending a lot of money on it just for AV experience. And you install a sound card now and then again a HDAV later (chuck the HDAV.......maybe we will see true HD cards on the market which are cheaper.). You will lso need a high end graphics card (can't recollect asus p5b having a HDMI output). Plus with the cards right now - except one Asus 4 series card that can actually pass bitstream True HD audio via HDMI there aren't enough HW that can give you a HD experience froma PC.) Stereo sound though would be great.

You want to stream the songs and use the same as a media server - cool idea.

Now i do not really see a NMT not doing the same with a usb wireless card (2k). Check out sybase and you will get all the know how how to stream audio/video in a wireless/normal network. And believe me the video as well as the audio is actually great in a NMT. The chip on a NMT is similar to those found in high end ble ray players - and its a firmware thign before these NMTs start playing Blueray from USB drives. (an internal Blueray PC drive from LG costs aroud 6k and a Blueray writer around 11k)

Well i am in no way askign you not to get the HTPC - but there are a lot of problems getting it right - particularly with the HW available now. Cost wise too a NMT makes more sense - 15k (max with customs of 3k) plus a HDD (supported upto 2gb in many models). You can stream everything in the network (even RMVB transcoding is supported) - watch true HD video and get excellant audio - now that you mentioend you have a capable receiver.

GIve it a shot - a HTPC is great but this is not the time - a year i think before thinks turn out better for this segment.

Also if you are going with an HTPC get a digital TV tuner (provided you have Tata Sky/A irtel DTH) - you get a bull blown PVR.

In case you change your mind and want to get out of the hassles of the HTPC let me know - i am ordering a idragon 100 HD next week for 260 USD (includign shipping - the guys will mention that the article has no commercial value and mark it as around 100 USD). We can bypass the customs possibly - if not 3k max for the same. Should be under 15k excluding HDD.

PS: The HTPC is a great solution - i have spend the atleast 60-80 hours since last Wednesday sinc ei decided to get something between a HTPC and a NMT. After surveign the market, speaking to dealers and also an enthu guru from Avsforum named John (called him on his US number - he actually talked for 20 mins and was passionate about it). - he has both. He suggested a NMT for all my requirements and also those to what you have.

And the racket that your combo will make will take away from the AV experience that you so desire. The NMT bug bit me this weekend - am awaiting my paypal to get activated.

 

[suprateep]

btw anyone interested in a iobox 100HD from dragontech can let me know -we can talk to the company and ask for a discount if we order in numbers.

For more information you can visit - ioBox-100HD The finest Networked Media Tank solution

Its a winner as suggested by many forums like mpcclub (http://www.mpcclub.com/)

PS: Only problem is it still can't downsample DTS audio to stereo like the popcorn hour - no problem if you have a capable receiver. Its designed well - has got optical as well as coaxial outs, HDMI pass through for true HD audio, 1.3a specification etc.

Guys anyone interested???

 

[venkatcr]

Great specs man.......will go along with Windows 7 too when its launched later this year. Now fora couple of things:

And the racket that your combo will make will take away from the AV experience that you so desire. The NMT bug bit me this weekend - am awaiting my paypal to get activated.

I already have all the parts excepting the sound card. I am analyzing a few and will decide shortly.

I forgot to add a few other things. This machine will also be connected to an ISP, and I will use a wireless keyboard to use it as a regular PC. It will also serve as a wireless router for all the laptops we have at home. Plus I may also use it for receiving network based music if my ISP does not kill me. I plan to use XP till Windows 7 stabilises.

As I said I will be installing the Blu_Ray player and the HDAV card by end of this year. I am in no hurry. I don't need any graphics card as I will not be using this machine for anything other being a media server and streamer. For now it will only work as a music server.

I am using a Silverstone HTPC cabinet, and believe me, you wont hear anything. The drive bays are cushioned, and it has over five fans for cooling. The total noise from the system will be less than 15dB. Actually I have very very old cabinet, and even in that the noise level is less than 10dB. There will no speakers or anything attached to the system. All sound will be through the main speakers or speakers in other rooms. I don't see the HTPC as creating any racket whatsoever.

I am not too keen on NMT as I feel (1) It is an emerging technology and (2) it is kind of closed. You are dependent on one manufacturer for everything. What if a new codec comes? What if there is a new compression technology? Plus I am not convinced of encoding and viewing movies. I prefer DVDs and later on will be using Blu-Ray. With an HTPC, I have the freedom of using any software I want such as Foobar, iTunes, Media Monkey. I am very comfortable with these and would prefer to use them in the future.

I will be spending close to a lakh on this and I consider it to be a long term investment.

Cheers

 

[grubyhalo]

The only reason why I'm looking at putting together a HTPC (in good time ) instead of an NMT is the lack of a comprehensive user interface. All the interfaces for NMT I have seen (not in the last few months though) are rudimentary at best and am not sure if they support playlist capabilities, album art display and visualization. If an NMT provides a UI that's comparable to that of the best media players out there (Foobar, J.River, Media Monkey...) or atleast that of Winamp, I'd buy one in a heartbeat...

 

[grubyhalo]

Suprateep,
Does any of the NMTs that you know let you tune in to an internet radio station? I remember that was one of the key reasons I lost the hots for NMTs and am curious if that's changed now...

 

[suprateep]

Suprateep,
Does any of the NMTs that you know let you tune in to an internet radio station? I remember that was one of the key reasons I lost the hots for NMTs and am curious if that's changed now...

yes the popcorn hour and the HDX 100 support internet radio - confirmed on their webpage as well as user forums. They also support sites such as youtube saya tv etc. Basically all the NMT are same with similar HW specs and basically same firmware.

PS: The thing is you need a fairly capable internet connection for internet radio - i have a 384 kbps connection and the radio often stutters at higher bitrate (>96kbps).

 

[suprateep]

The only reason why I'm looking at putting together a HTPC (in good time ) instead of an NMT is the lack of a comprehensive user interface. All the interfaces for NMT I have seen (not in the last few months though) are rudimentary at best and am not sure if they support playlist capabilities, album art display and visualization. If an NMT provides a UI that's comparable to that of the best media players out there (Foobar, J.River, Media Monkey...) or atleast that of Winamp, I'd buy one in a heartbeat...

i agree the interface is rudimentary because almost everything is underdevelopment - a lot of features get added almost in every firmware (i.e,. once or twice a quarter). Earlier watching pictures etc off the HDD or network was plain - now they added a lot of features like transition etc. Even the playback of files (which earlier was slowish according to many and resume feature missing etc) has improved. User interface can be changed in due time i am sure. It supports playlists too and playlist can be generated (with a jukebox plugin and editing 4-5 lines of code in notepad specifying the computer on the network if streaming from or the folder within the HDD).

A Linux baby - but editing stuff is done by a few hours of reading and putting it together in the NMT software for the media player

 

[spirovious]

I already have all the parts excepting the sound card. I am analyzing a few and will decide shortly.

Cheers

SC can be Xonar D2X with good DACs used,pure musical.
Other can be creative XIFI series.