Help needed for digital transport.

[AVcrazy]

I have been using my laptop (3rd gen i5, 8bg, 1TB, Windows 8) as my primary transport for a while now. Recently I have started to notice the fan noise from the laptop while listening to music. Although it's not very annoying but sometimes I do feel there is a difference, especially when doing some critical listening. Also I had a windows based tablet convertible which used to handle my other computing needs; which died on me 3-4 days ago.
Now I'm thinking of retiring my laptop from its music duties and use it as my work device. Therefore I'm looking at a new digital transport. Basically what I need:
1. Fanless. My room is very quiet and thus no fan noise would be top priority.
2. Something that can accept or read from a hdd or a USB hdd.
3. Wide format support
4. USB or optical digital outs so that I can feed this to my Caiman DAC

I've been looking at Fanless htpc builds but in general I found the htpc idea relatively expensive, esp Fanless.
There is also this concept of 'music servers ' working via WiFi etc but I couldn't grasp the concept due to my very humble knowledge of computers and wireless technology.
Can anyone guide me to building a new digital transport (or a ready made product) that can perform the above duties? I don't have a fixed budget but would be really happy if this can be managed under 10k.
Any help is really appreciated as always!
Thanks and regards!

 

[regeHA]

Raspberry Pi.

I use it wireless (DLNA/UPnP Server), but it has USB and HDMI. Can use something like HiFiBerry for optical output too.

Extremely low on resources, silent, wide format support and takes input from external USB devices and/or a NAS.

Icing on the cake... costs less than 3K.

 

[AVcrazy]

@regeHA: Hmmm. I did stumble on the idea of the raspberry pi as a 'muisc server' and there were many articles on how to get it set up. But most were so jargon heavy that I lost the enthusiasm for it.
Anyway, let's say I have a raspberry pi (model A) running the raspbian distro from an sd card. What's next? How do I add an HDD to the system and get it to play my music.
Also, my WiFi router is in another room and I wouldn't be able to connect my pi to it for wireless. What am I missing here. Please forgive my extremely sparse knowledge on the subject. I hope I'm not speaking stupid. Hehe.

 

[regeHA]

@regeHA: Hmmm. I did stumble on the idea of the raspberry pi as a 'muisc server' and there were many articles on how to get it set up. But most were so jargon heavy that I lost the enthusiasm for it.
Anyway, let's say I have a raspberry pi (model A) running the raspbian distro from an sd card. What's next? How do I add an HDD to the system and get it to play my music.
Also, my WiFi router is in another room and I wouldn't be able to connect my pi to it for wireless. What am I missing here. Please forgive my extremely sparse knowledge on the subject. I hope I'm not speaking stupid. Hehe.

For wireless streaming -
1. Install this - Installing MinimServer and MinimWatch.
2. Connect the Pi to the router via LAN. Or you can also use a USB Wi-Fi dongle for the Raspberry Pi.
3. Install BubbleUPnP on an Android device.
4. Connect external hard drive with music files to the Raspberry Pi. You can also connect a NAS.

BubbleUPnP will find the MinimServer and wirelessly stream to a wireless capable AVR or DAC. Otherwise, you can use something like Chromecast Audio to make a DAC or AVR wireless.

Needless to say the Raspberry Pi functions as a media streamer in this scenario.

For use as a media player -
1. Install moOde Audio Player.
2. Connect your USB DAC.
3. Connect external hard drive or NAS.

 

[AVcrazy]

@regeHA: Sir I downloaded the moode image and flashed it onto an sdcard. Tried to boot it up with the instructions on their website but I'm still not able to get it going. Unable to connect to the pi via the ethernet cable. In my browser when I try to go to help://moode , it shows the cannot display page message.
Besides I want this to work without the pc/laptop. Is there any Linux distro for the pi that can allow it to function independently without the need of a pc or a remote device for controlling it?
What I mean is that most of the raspberry pi distros convert the pi into a music streamer (wherein the pi fetches the data from a local or network based storage). What I'm looking for is converting the pi into an independent music pc (just like my laptop), so that it can play from a local storage attached via USB, output via the second USB port to the DAC and display what it's playing through the rca out on the pi. How can this be accomplished?

 

[greenhorn]

a bit of unrelated suggestions
1. your laptop heatsink may be getting dusty
2. You can tweak your power settings to make the fan turn on less

 

[AVcrazy]

@greenhorn: sir as I said, I want to retire my laptop now from its music duties. I want to use it elsewhere as a work device.
Anyway, I've been reading on other forums that the pi may not have the computing guts to function as a standalone music pc. Where else should I be looking then? Any other decent alternatives? I need a device that can play data stored on an hdd / thumb drive etc and output it via USB/optical to my DAC, without being dependent on any other device for configuring it etc. A display on the device itself or a video out via rca would be a huge bonus. I'm not necessarily looking for remote functionality (via WiFi, ir, etc).

 

[MaSh]

I have been using my laptop (3rd gen i5, 8bg, 1TB, Windows 8) as my primary transport for a while now. Recently I have started to notice the fan noise from the laptop while listening to music. Although it's not very annoying but sometimes I do feel there is a difference, especially when doing some critical listening. Also I had a windows based tablet convertible which used to handle my other computing needs; which died on me 3-4 days ago.
Now I'm thinking of retiring my laptop from its music duties and use it as my work device. Therefore I'm looking at a new digital transport. Basically what I need:
1. Fanless. My room is very quiet and thus no fan noise would be top priority.
2. Something that can accept or read from a hdd or a USB hdd.
3. Wide format support
4. USB or optical digital outs so that I can feed this to my Caiman DAC

I've been looking at Fanless htpc builds but in general I found the htpc idea relatively expensive, esp Fanless.
There is also this concept of 'music servers ' working via WiFi etc but I couldn't grasp the concept due to my very humble knowledge of computers and wireless technology.
Can anyone guide me to building a new digital transport (or a ready made product) that can perform the above duties? I don't have a fixed budget but would be really happy if this can be managed under 10k.
Any help is really appreciated as always!
Thanks and regards!

Have you thought of using a Bluray player as a transport? Any budget one can take an external hard disc and has HDMI/Coaxial outs with bitstreaming. My 1TB hdd is connected to my Philips and serves my Music and Movies needs. Such players have no DACs or do any kind of processing making them light, silent and fairly cheap. The only drawback I have faced is that some variants of .MKV container are not recognized. A simple MKV to MP4 converter resolves that. This player also has a Lan port to connect to your home network.

MaSh

 

[regeHA]

@regeHA: Sir I downloaded the moode image and flashed it onto an sdcard. Tried to boot it up with the instructions on their website but I'm still not able to get it going. Unable to connect to the pi via the ethernet cable. In my browser when I try to go to help://moode , it shows the cannot display page message.
Besides I want this to work without the pc/laptop. Is there any Linux distro for the pi that can allow it to function independently without the need of a pc or a remote device for controlling it?
What I mean is that most of the raspberry pi distros convert the pi into a music streamer (wherein the pi fetches the data from a local or network based storage). What I'm looking for is converting the pi into an independent music pc (just like my laptop), so that it can play from a local storage attached via USB, output via the second USB port to the DAC and display what it's playing through the rca out on the pi. How can this be accomplished?

Check the router and see if the Pi or moOde is connected as a device. It does if DHCP is running on the router.

Type http://moode in the browser. Restart the Pi if necessary.

Yes it will work without PC or laptop. Just needs USB device with music data and yes should work fine with output to a USB DAC. However, you will need an app and mobile to view the library and select albums and tracks for playback. The Pi is headless and as such without a monitor, so needs a Smartphone or Tablet to view and browse the library.

Contact FM http://www.hifivision.com/members/terrible.html if you still cannot get the Pi to work. He has recently started using the Pi... so you can get some pointers from him.

PS: moOde is supposedly moody though I've not had a single issue with it till date... you can also try Volumio and Rune. They are easier to configure and get running.

 

[AVcrazy]

@MaSh: hmm. I'll search more in this direction too. Thanks!
@regeHA: Sir I've not connected my pi to the router, instead connected it directly to the pm via an ethernet cable. Actually my home WiFi setup is in one completely different part of the house and the music room is in a different location altogether. So I don't think I'll be able to connect my pi to the network.
Also sir I don't need the headless system approach. I need a display for managing/viewing the playback, etc. Something that's local rather than network based.

 

[AVcrazy]

Considering the progress made in integrated systems and motherboard cpu combos is it possible to build a dedicated "music pc" for under 10k?
Something like this:
DIY Digital Audio Computer for playing Music via an USB connection

 

[regeHA]

@regeHA: Sir I've not connected my pi to the router, instead connected it directly to the pm via an ethernet cable. Actually my home WiFi setup is in one completely different part of the house and the music room is in a different location altogether. So I don't think I'll be able to connect my pi to the network.
Also sir I don't need the headless system approach. I need a display for managing/viewing the playback, etc. Something that's local rather than network based.

I'm not sure how you have connected the Pi. But it needs to be on the network (local network via router) for it to be accessible. Otherwise it will not connect to other devices on the network... probably why its not showing up via the browser.

At the very least get a Wi-Fi USB dongle to get the Pi on the local network.

Considering the progress made in integrated systems and motherboard cpu combos is it possible to build a dedicated "music pc" for under 10k?
Something like this:
DIY Digital Audio Computer for playing Music via an USB connection

If you are willing to spend that money and also time in either building and/or learning how to run such a device then why not spend some time learning how to use the Pi? And spend a little to get it on the same network... either a Wi-Fi dongle or a network repeater with LAN. In both instances going with the Pi will be cheaper and also give better ROI in terms of SQ.

 

[AVcrazy]

@regeHA: All thanks to your motivation sir, I now have the Pi humming!
The problem was that the network link was not configured properly. I had no access to my router (netheir via Ethernet cable nor wireless).
So to put the RPi on the network I had to stream my laptop's wifi to the RPi via Ethernet. Bridging the connections solved the problem for good!
Anyway, this is only half the success since the Pi is still dependent on the laptop. But heck I got it working just to see how different the sound quality was.
In my initial view, I'm not very impressed, atleast as far as SQ is concerned. I think the windows + bug head combo still sounds better. I'll keep listening to leave my final thoughts. I'll also try out runeAudio and moodeAudio too.

 

[regeHA]

Are you using the Pi's internal DAC? Its nothing to write home about. Even the HDMI for audio on the Pi lacks. The best way to use the Pi is with optical output (addon board) or wireless streaming i.e. MinimServer, Moode DLNA, etc. The Pi will also benefit from isolation like wireless streaming and/or a better power supply (I'm not too sold on the latter i.e. spending on something that costs 3-20 times the cost of the Pi).

In other words use the Pi purely as a source/transport and rely on an external DAC.

That said the Bug plays on an entirely different plane and if that's your thing then unlikely the Pi will have a similar sound signature with so much DSP and processing.

The Pi (to me at least) is purely for uncolored and bit perfect output, with zero processing.

PS: I use the Bug too and like it. Just not for everyday listening though. Too much waiting and work involved to my liking.

 

[saikatbiswas82]

@MaSh: hmm. I'll search more in this direction too. Thanks!
@regeHA: Sir I've not connected my pi to the router, instead connected it directly to the pm via an ethernet cable. Actually my home WiFi setup is in one completely different part of the house and the music room is in a different location altogether. So I don't think I'll be able to connect my pi to the network.
Also sir I don't need the headless system approach. I need a display for managing/viewing the playback, etc. Something that's local rather than network based.

Pi is meant to be network based. However, if you connect PC's lan via RPI, theoretically this should work. But again, one has to configure the subnet mask, dns etc etc manually. I haven't tried it and I believe no FM has tried this either.

In order to make RPI to be headless, the phone (or any other controller like tab) and RPI should be in the same network. So without a router, its nearly impossible. So to summarize, you need a wifi router in order to play music from RPI given the fact that the PC where songs are stored is also in the same network.

As regaHA pointed, the router should be running in DHCP mode for PI to assign a dynamic IP for the fist time. After first boot, you can assign a static IP to your RPI and save it.

 

[AVcrazy]

@regeHA: No sir I'm using an external DAC. A Beresford Caiman.
I'm using the bughead with no DSPs in the chain and an all flat config. It sounds more dynamic and punchier than the Pi. However I'll still have to do more A/B.
Even though the webui and consistency on the Voumio and other Roms is nice but I'm still on the hunt for something more functional and flexible. Also I don't necessarily need a headless system. I searched a lot for a audiophile distro with a local GUI for the Pi but currently there seems to be none. Besides the Pi A is too weak to support a GUI and audiophile playback chops.

@Saikat: Sir I didnt have a usb wifi adapter lying around so out of lathargy I decided to just make do with a LAN connection. In hindsight it might have been a good decision coz I got it to work and am not very satisfied with the sound. If I added the wifi adapter to the Pi it would need an external USB hub for my HDD and this is bound to bring in more electric noise (atleast more so than my current config).
Getting it to work by attaching it to the laptop's Ethernet port and allowing Windows to configure the rest was pretty easy. One just needs to bridge the connections (of the wifi adapter and the Ethernet adapter) and specify automatic IP in the ipv4 settings on both the adapters. Done. You now have the Pi on your home network via LAN from your PC.

 

[saikatbiswas82]

Good to know that the network issue has been resolved.