HFV Pune meet

[denom]

IN CONTINUITY OF DEMO NO.15, WE DID A SHORT SWAP OF DACS AS FM.VIKOMA WANTED US TO CONNECT HIS ODAC TO THE EXISTING CHAIN. WE FLEETINGLY HEARD IT FOR A PERIOD OF 3 ODD TRACKS SO IT WOULD NOT BE RIGHT TO COMMENT ON IT. IN THAT SHORT PERIOD THOUGH, I FOUND IT TO MAKE THE SOUND STAGE NARROW & OVERALL SOUND WAS ON THE DRY SIDE.

DEMO NO.16

SOURCE: NAD 515 CDP (COST: 23K)
AMP: NAD 356 (COST: 47K MINUS DAC CARD OPTION / 60K WITH DAC CARD)
SPEAKERS: PSB ALPHA B1 (COST: 16K)
CABLES: SOMMER ICS WITH AMPHENOL CONNECTORS + VDH SPEAKER CABLES

OBSERVATIONS:
WE DID A DAC TO DAC COMPARO BETWEEN THE ONE IN THE 515 CDP & THAT IN THE 356 AMP. DIFFERENCE WAS ALMOST NON-EXISTANT.
WARM SOUND, BASS SOUNDED UNNATURAL, VOCALS WERE PRETTY CLEAN. COLORATION SHOWING ITS PRESENCE.

MY VIEW:THE START OF THE NAD/PSB TYPE OF SOUND SIGNATURE, WHICH IS NOT TO MY LIKING. ON THE DAC FRONT, IF YOU ARE NOT HAVING MUCH CDS THEN BETTER TO SAVE THE 10K DIFF BETWEEN THE NAD5151 CDP & DAC CARD & BUY THE DAC CARD OPTION IN THE 356 AMP ITSELF(IF YOU ARE LOOKING AT NAD AMPS THAT IS). 356 AMP ON THE WHOLE IS NOT A BAD ONE, BUT NEEDS FAR BETTER SPEAKERS THAN PSB, TO MAKE IT PERFORM MINUS ADDED SPICE OF THE PSBS.

DEMO NO.17

SOURCE: NAD 515 CDP
AMP: NAD356
SPEAKERS: PSB ALPHA B1 IN A MODE & PSB IMAGINE MINI(COST:44K )
IN B MODE
CABLES: SOMMER ICS WITH AMPHENOL CONNECTORS + VDH SPEAKER CABLES

OBSERVATIONS:
COMPARING THE 2 SETS OF SPEAKERS IT GOES LIKE THIS:
ALPHA B1S: ON THE BRIGHTER SIDE OF THE 2, HAVE WIDER SOUNDSTAGE, WILL GIVE YOU LISTENING FATIGUE WITH HIGH VOLUME
IMAGINE MINIS: MUCH REFINED THAN THE APHA B1S, MORE REFINED, ON THE WARMER SIDE & SHARING MORE OF THE PSB HOUSE SOUND THAN ONE OF THE CHEAPEST SPEAKER OF THE PSB RANGE(ALPHA B1)

MY VIEW: IF YOU ASK ME, ID STILL GO WITH THE CHEAP (RELATIVELY IN PSB RANGE THAT IS) ALPHA B1S THAN ANY OF THE OTHER PSB SPEAKERS (SAVE FOR SYNCHRONY SERIES, BUT THEN THOSE ARE DAMN EXPENSIVE) THESE ARE FAR LESS COLOURED THAN THE IMAGE & IMAGINE SERIES & HENCE MY CHOICE FROM THE PSB STABLE.

DEMO NO.18

SOURCE: NAD 515 CDP
AMP: NAD356
SPEAKERS: PSB IMAGE T6 (COST:87K)
CABLES: SOMMER ICS WITH AMPHENOL CONNECTORS + VDH SPEAKER CABLES
OBSERVATIONS:
356 COULD EASILY DRIVE THE T6 TOWERS, CAN GO LOUD. REST THERE IS NOTHING MUCH TO WRITE ABOUT.

MY VIEW: COMPLETE OVERPOWERING OF THE LOWER FREQUENCIES, IT JUST GOES BOOM BOOM BOOM. IN SHORT, VERY IRRITATING.


WE NOW DECIDED TO DO AN IMPROMPTU DAC SHOOT-OUT BETWEEN THE BERESFORD CAIMAN GATORISED, ASUS ESSENCE 1 & NAD DAC INSIDE THE NAD 356 AMP. KEEPING THE REST OF THE COMPONENTS THE SAME AS DEMO NO.18, WE DECIDED TO FOCUS ON HOW MUCH CAN THE DAC MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THE ABOVE SET UP.


DEMO NO.19

SOURCE: BERESFORD CAIMAN GATORISED / ASUS ESSENCE 1 / NAD DAC(INSIDE 356 AMP)
AMP: NAD356
SPEAKERS: PSB IMAGE T6
CABLES: SOMMER ICS WITH AMPHENOL CONNECTORS + VDH SPEAKER CABLES

OBSERVATIONS:
COMPARING THE 3 DACS WENT LIKE THIS:
NAD DAC: LIVELY, AIRY & ADDED SPARKLE TO THE MUSIC
ASUS ESSENCE 1: THE MUSIC SOUNDED MORE LAIDBACK THAN THAT PRESENTED BY THE OTHER 2.
CAIMAN GATORISED: MOST NEUTRAL PRESENTATION OUT OF THE 3

MY VIEW: AGAIN, ITS HIGHLY SUBJECTIVE AS TASTES DIFFER BUT MY PICK WAS THE CAIMAN AS I LIKED THE WAY IT PRESENTED THE MUSIC MORE THAN THE OTHER 2.

DEMO NO.20

SOURCE: MARANTZ SA7003(COST:60K, DISCONTINUED NOW)
AMP: NAD375 (COST: 1L)
SPEAKERS: PSB IMAGE T6 IN A MODE + PROAC 140 (COST:1.40L) IN B MODE
CABLES: WSS ICS + VDH SPEAKER CABLES + SOMMER SPEAKER CABLES (PRO AC) & SUPRA CLASSIC SPEAKER CABLES (PSB T6)

OBSERVATIONS:
AFTER HEARING THE PSB IMAGE T6 EARLIER, IT WAS PLAIN OBVIOUS WHAT THE AUDIENCE PREFERRED TO HEAR. YES, THE PRO AC 140S WON HANDS DOWN. THE PRO AC 140S DID EVERYTHING THAT MUCH BETTER THAN THE PSB IMAGE T6S. VIKI SUGGESTED THAT WE HEAR THE PSB IMAGE T6S WITH ANOTHER AMP AS HE FELT THAT THEY WOULD SOUND BETTER BUT THE AUDIENCE WAS IN NO MOOD TO GIVE THE IMAGE T6S ANOTHER CHANCE. CANT BLAME THEM THOUGH

MY VIEW: PRO AC 140S WHAT ELSE hyeah: WOULD LOVE TO HEAR THE PSB IMAGE T6S WITH A NON NAD AMP & GIVE THEM ANOTHER CHANCE, HOPE THAT HAPPENS SOON TILL THEN LETS GIVE THEM THE BENEFIT OF DOUBT.

LAST 5 DEMO COMPILATIONS TO GO, HOPEFULLY HAVE THEM READY FOR TOMORROW.

 

[Santy]

@ sachin

I also wish to build my own Pass B1 but I would need a power amp then. I also have to sell my integrated which I haven't used adequately. Sigh. What in the World have I gotten myself into!

 

[captrajesh]

No sweat .... iaudio and Gvenu ..... your APs are amongst the best India-made pre-powers I have heard till date! Possibly their recent made goods 'could' have issues OR the ones used in the Pune Meet had some ....

Actually, they make the amps to the given budget. The lower the cost, the lower would be the cost of materials put. First on the chop block would be the cabinet; lower cost would get a flimsy cabinet. Gold plated terminals would give way to tin plated ones, Volume pot, selector pot and knobs would be of lower quality; Then would be the turn of components. Obviously there is a limit to stretching the margins.

Someone was mentioning that the one played at the meet had cost the owner 45k.

Mine was mid priced one and had flimsy cabinet, tin coated terminals and not so great volume and selector pots. However, I've been told by Mr. Siva that the components were all top class.

The one that Venu has is the top end combo.

 

[srinisundar]

What a time we had !!!!! :yahoo:

First of all let me thank Viki for being an over-whelming host. :clapping::clapping::clapping:

Most of them who had to leave missed the extended Music session which went till 10.00pm with all the liqour :licklips: flowing from Vikis collection then the HT session which went on till 1.00 am and then the Movie session (Pirates 4) till 2.00am.

:

I like the above.. This way the meet should go.. No hard feelings, how it is organized, enjoy the whole day how it goes and finish the day with the same spirit One more college outing party.

Regards

 

[iaudio]

No sweat .... iaudio and Gvenu ..... your APs are amongst the best India-made pre-powers I have heard till date! Possibly their recent made goods 'could' have issues OR the ones used in the Pune Meet had some ....

Actually, they make the amps to the given budget. The lower the cost, the lower would be the cost of materials put. First on the chop block would be the cabinet; lower cost would get a flimsy cabinet. Gold plated terminals would give way to tin plated ones, Volume pot, selector pot and knobs would be of lower quality; Then would be the turn of components. Obviously there is a limit to stretching the margins.

Someone was mentioning that the one played at the meet had cost the owner 45k.

Mine was mid priced one and had flimsy cabinet, tin coated terminals and not so great volume and selector pots. However, I've been told by Mr. Siva that the components were all top class.

The one that Venu has is the top end combo.

I think what Rohitmusic has should be similar to what I and Capt have, but I could be wrong. GVenu, square_wave have the high end builds.
I wonder if there was some other problem with ap amps at pune meet, like loose tubes etc which resulted in the poor performance.
IMHO, AP is not all hype. Do try and visit Gvenu or Siva in Bangalore to get a better idea.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk 2

 

[corElement]

Hot on the hells of pune meet!

Jan 2013 Delhi/Gurgaon audiophile meet!

 

[iaudio]

Awesome, so the Pune hfvians have inspired the NCR guys to meet up!

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk 2

 

[sachu888]

I think what Rohitmusic has should be similar to what I and Capt have, but I could be wrong. GVenu, square_wave have the high end builds.
I wonder if there was some other problem with ap amps at pune meet, like loose tubes etc which resulted in the poor performance.
IMHO, AP is not all hype. Do try and visit Gvenu or Siva in Bangalore to get a better idea.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk 2

Ap's amps are expensive,please don't consider B1 cheap.commercial version retails @ $1000.

Regards,
Sachin

 

[heliumflight]

Bravo denom...you're on your way to become a Hifi reviewer.

 

[rohitmusic]

I think what Rohitmusic has should be similar to what I and Capt have, but I could be wrong. GVenu, square_wave have the high end builds.
I wonder if there was some other problem with ap amps at pune meet, like loose tubes etc which resulted in the poor performance.
IMHO, AP is not all hype. Do try and visit Gvenu or Siva in Bangalore to get a better idea.

IAudio you are right they are exactly same amps in fact with better PCB and volume control. One correction - the 45 K price was quoted by one member during meet per amp!! (the new ones) so the new production amps cost around 80k was what was said. So mine are not @45 and cost much much more!

Post the meet, I checked the power amp for any fuses gone out also the tubes look to be in place and they are again back in business playing music flawlessly at home. (Puzzled???). It could probably be the synergy part that did the trick. Am been told the amps are finicky with speaker matching. Also the interconnects used were around 2 feet. I am told the interconnects should be as short as possible especially for tube based pres to pass signal to power.
They power my Paradigms 7 FS easily (@91db sensitivity in a 11x14 room) and MAX volume I have used till now is 11 O Clock. I keep volume at 10O Clock. Anything above 11 O Clock is not bearable. I wish I had carrier my speakers As it was decided not to carry FS so skipped them.
All the positive characteristics that you mention of the amps is what I hear on daily basis. Ab woh meet me kisi karan nahi hua to koyi kya kare bhai...

 

[Flash]

Rohit.
Do let me know when I can drop by to give the AP and Paradigms a another go. Can probably bring in another pair of speakers as well.

Room acoustics, dimensions as well as the music genre plays a very vital part in any hifi rig.
The AP magic could very well be prevalent in your den.

BTW What are you using as a source ?

 

[iaudio]

IAudio you are right they are exactly same amps in fact with better PCB and volume control. One correction - the 45 K price was quoted by one member during meet per amp!! (the new ones) so the new production amps cost around 80k was what was said. So mine are not @45 and cost much much more!

Post the meet, I checked the power amp for any fuses gone out also the tubes look to be in place and they are again back in business playing music flawlessly at home. (Puzzled???). It could probably be the synergy part that did the trick. Am been told the amps are finicky with speaker matching. Also the interconnects used were around 2 feet. I am told the interconnects should be as short as possible especially for tube based pres to pass signal to power.
They power my Paradigms 7 FS easily (@91db sensitivity in a 11x14 room) and MAX volume I have used till now is 11 O Clock. I keep volume at 10O Clock. Anything above 11 O Clock is not bearable. I wish I had carrier my speakers As it was decided not to carry FS so skipped them.
All the positive characteristics that you mention of the amps is what I hear on daily basis. Ab woh meet me kisi karan nahi hua to koyi kya kare bhai...

Rohit,
In my case I have seen the AP amps work well with my AP speakers as well as my Mission m33i. I have also heard them paired with other FMs GR research, Scanspeak based speakers. Never found it to be dull. That is why I said I found it quite baffling.

Again, in my 180 sqft room I barely go beyond the 3rd or 4th step of the stepped attenuator! It is quite loud at that point itself. With the android spl meter app( FWIW ) the db levels used to be 85 ish.

Flash, as you said, you could go and spend some time and see how it works in Rohits home.

 

[rohitmusic]

IMHO, I think the AP products and producers are genuinely sincere and passionate towards their creations. I can vouch for that having interacted with them and used their products.

However, since it is futile to explain how they sound in words (as many ppl are advocating) so I have refrained from pursuading others because we all will believe only once we hear it... and rightly so!

I thought it was my responsibility and imp for me to chip in with this part before speculations grow, in best interest of the respect we all audiophile share for any products (especially so since it is an Indian brand.)

Like proposed by me earlier the amps are with us and we can verify it in a more objective manner giving it a much deserved critical listening session. Not worth verifying? We are most welcome to check it.

I hope I am not being biased.

 

[rohitmusic]

Sure Flash! You are always welcome.. In fact even without the meet results I was anyways planning to have the senior members review my setup from all perspectives. I needed inputs on interconnects/speaker cables the speaker combinations etc. Basically fine tune the entire setup which is far from perfect (but definitely not throwaway ).

Let me see if we can meet this weekend if no family plans come up. Would help if we can have couple other senior folks as well Someone who can debug stuff should help..

 

[denom]

IAudio you are right they are exactly same amps in fact with better PCB and volume control. One correction - the 45 K price was quoted by one member during meet per amp!! (the new ones) so the new production amps cost around 80k was what was said. So mine are not @45 and cost much much more!

Can you pls quote the amount you paid for your pre-power amps, as I will have to make amends wrt pricing in the demo compilations for benefit of all members, thanks.

 

[TheCoolestOne]

Re: Pass B1

Hi all,
I have got few requests for Pass B1.I can provide B1 and Power supply kits to members if there is enough interest.

Regards,
Sachin

Sachin, i'm in for a kit too. Count me in please

 

[rohitmusic]

Can you pls quote the amount you paid for your pre-power amps, as I will have to make amends wrt pricing in the demo compilations for benefit of all members, thanks.

Sure Denom, the landing price is around 56k, 55k for the amps and the transport/octroi that I had to pay, thanks.

gn

 

[Flash]

Sure Flash! You are always welcome.. In fact even without the meet results I was anyways planning to have the senior members review my setup from all perspectives. I needed inputs on interconnects/speaker cables the speaker combinations etc. Basically fine tune the entire setup which is far from perfect (but definitely not throwaway ).

Let me see if we can meet this weekend if no family plans come up. Would help if we can have couple other senior folks as well Someone who can debug stuff should help..

Sounds good .
Lets plan something in the near future will ask Viki, ruenigma, sagarvikram if they can drop by as well .

 

[denom]

Sure Denom, the landing price is around 56k, 55k for the amps and the transport/octroi that I had to pay, thanks.

gn

So its 56k for the pre-power combo or each???

 

[iaudio]

Dave, I am sure it is 56k for the combo! OTOH, the top end PM 1 would alone come to 60k thereabouts.