Home theater and music system

[aakashr]

Hi bhaskar I have recently purchased a home theatre after auditioning most of the famous brands like dali,paradigm,wharfedale,monitor audio,tannoy,Klipsch.
1) My journey of auditioning started with klipsch dealer at cinebels lajpat nagar delhi. I auditioned the klipsch reference series rf62. I needed a system both for music and movies so a balanced speaker is what I was lukin for, now before auditioning the klipsch I have read that klipsch are highly recommended for movies but they are not good for music and to my surprise it came true as the dealer was interested in letting me judge the speaker on the basis of movies as he showed me three four clips of blu ray discs but was not that enthusiast in giving me a music demo and hence I got my answer.
Dealer rating 6/10
Demo rating :- very good for movies but not that good for music
Overall :- Not value for money
Flrstanding :- rf 62 for rs 76000
denon avr 2113 :-45000

2) My next visit was at bass n treble at ghitorni delhi auditioning wharfedale diamond 10.7 with denon avr 2113 & 1713. The dealer there was such a gem. He was very patient, adjusted everything according to my need.
I started the demo listening mitwa from lagaan with only floorstanding in the scenario and I must say i was amazed with the low frequency response(bass) of the speakers.After the song I auditioned hotel california in a 5.1 setup and i must say i was blown away with the quality of the diamond 10.7 setup.

Dealer Rating :- 10/10
Demo Rating :- 9/10
Overall :- Great value for money
Front 10.7 Floorstander :- 64000 + discount
Rear diamond 10.1 :- 18000
Sub :- SW150 :- 25000

3) Next in the list was paradigm monitor 7 series. The exp. with the dealer was not that good. In short.
Paradigm monitor 9 :- very good performance , vocals was very clear,lacks low frequency if compares to wharfedale. price 66000 + discount
Overall
Dealer rating 2/10
demo rating:- 7/10
Good speakers but if u are considering to buy the rest of the speakers of matching series then forget about it as it will not fit your budget
5.1 Setup:- 140000 without receiver

4)Last destination :- Top Gizmos Noida U.P.
Started with dali zensor 7 floorstander and it was good but still my mind was stucked at the wharfedale only.After much discussion with the dealer he convinced me to audition the dali ikon 6 speakers which were a higher end of the dali and we started the demo with the taal movie song "mere paas hai tu" sung by hariharan and I must say the performance of the dali took me away with them. The vocals were crystal clear ,bass very tight not at all boomy,mids were excellent and it touched my heart instantaneously.
Overall
Dealer Rating :- 9/10
Demo Rating :- 10/10
Price for front floorstander :- 96000 + discount
At first my budget was 150000 with receiver but after auditioning dali I had to raise my budget as i cudn't go for any other speaker so I purchased them and in the end very happy with what i have.
Tips :- Do audition the speakers & let your ears be the best judge
Play same set of songs on all the different brands you audition as only then u will be able to figure out the difference.
If your budget is tight then I will suggest you to go for
Denon AVR Receiver 1713 :- 30000 after discount
Front Floorstander Wharfedale Diamond 10.7 :- 58000-60000.
Sub :- Diamond SW 150 :25000
Rear :- Diamond 10.DFS :- 12000
As of now if u r seriously lukin for a quality than go with this system or
You can make a 2 channel system with dali ikon 6 floorstander pair with denon avr 2113 and can later on add the other speakers as well.

excellent review............would really help others!!!

 

[shanmune]

Agree with Hemanth. Most avr get outdated quickly with newer models coming in and spending more on speakers would help in the longrun

To be more precise, we can say that new AVR models get released every year rather than saying them as getting outdated. If you look closely, the SQ doesn't change year over year between new models. It is only the features that are added newly. In fact, most of the electronic items gets revised year over year. Whether new models keep coming or not, at least whatever model that you buy should perform the best for years to come. As long as your AVR performs to your satifaction or even beyond it, the investement you made will remain worth.

 

[Amarendra]

The denon x2000 replaces the 2113 of this year. If sound signatures remained the same why would the 2113 get 4 stars and the x2000 get 5 stars? Specs wise and features wise both remain the same ( I am referring to the what hifi reviews).

 

[shanmune]

The denon x2000 replaces the 2113 of this year. If sound signatures remained the same why would the 2113 get 4 stars and the x2000 get 5 stars? Specs wise and features wise both remain the same ( I am referring to the what hifi reviews).

We should not consider ratings as the absolute parameter to judge a receiver. Also, the rating is not derived only on SQ paramter. There are other things like ease of use, GUI, configuration, features, etc., which could determine the rating. The second point is - There might be a case where a particular model might be missing some thing (on some of the non-SQ parameters) with respect to the competition in the previous year and the successor might have got better over the same against the competitors in the present context. So the rating would be decided based on the present context rather than the one in previous year. So we cannot simply consider X2000 as something better than 2113 simply based on the rating.

If we go to the specifics of 2113 vs X2000, the difference is very subtle and that too not based on SQ. There are some features added to X2000 in terms presets assignment, enhanced zone functioanlity (party mode setting), enhanced GUI, etc. Again, going by various other reviews, X2000 vs 2113 has no difference in terms of SQ except for the features.

In general, though there may not any SQ differene between the previous year model and the current successor, there might be some exceptions where a company might introduce a new receiver with drastic changes in the internal design and completely different from the predecessors. For example, Yamaha introduced Aventage series which have a better designed hardware platform (though I won't say it as a drastic change) compared to RX -V series. Even then, the lowend Aventage models were not that different from higher end or mid-range RX-V models.

 

[GeorgeO]

Most changes are gradual upgrades, and not radical revamps. Many companies use the gimmick of incremental new features to launch a new range, using marketing hype-like new generation product etc. If you buy an older generation product which falls into this category you wont lose too much. Sometimes new features come in which ARE a significant upgrade-like HDMI. Those you don't want to miss.

 

[sunilkm]

If you look at 2013 Yamaha *75 series there is no significant difference from
*73 series.

In RX-V475 the new interface called MHL ( Mobile high definiton link ) compatible HDMI is added. Other than that it is pretty much RX-V473.

 

[bhaskarvurs]

hi all,
Thanks all for your valuable suggestions. finally i have zeroed on denon AVR 2113 , Yamaha RX-V673 & Denon AVR-X2000. so need all your feedback to select one. Thanks

 

[shanmune]

hi all,
Thanks all for your valuable suggestions. finally i have zeroed on denon AVR 2113 , Yamaha RX-V673 & Denon AVR-X2000. so need all your feedback to select one. Thanks

From SQ perspective, they all perform more or less the same though they might have different sound signature. Just audition all the three and choose the one that sounds great to your ears. In short, it is a very tough call based on SQ comparison.

 

[hitesh8786]

@ bhaskar...look fwd to ur feedbak of ur demo

 

[hemant_22engg]

Well I differ with shanmune's opinion as in a way it is important to have sufficient amount of wattage per channel if you are investing in hifi speakers as you have to match the rms wattage of your speakers with that of the receiver to drive them efficiently but there are few more things which are more important than wattage.
1) Speakers Sensitivity :-Speakers come in a wide variety of sizes and shapes, but what really sets them apart is how good they sound and how loud they can be. Having a really nice looking speaker that doesnt have the power to fill a given space with clear, vibrant audio can be a disappointing thing. For this reason, its important to look at multiple factors when making your speaker purchase.

For example, what is the decibel rating of that speaker? The decibel rating is a direct indication of how loud the speakers can be. For example, a speaker with 90 dB/1 means that at 1 watt of power, the sound produced by the speaker at a distance of 1 meter is 90 dB. This is pretty loud, especially when you consider that normal human speech is roughly 65-70 dB.

So, why doesnt a 100 w amplifier blow the windows off your home when you crank it up? Theres a significant loss of volume gain as the wattage increases. In fact, it takes double the wattage to drive a speaker to a 3 dB increase. If at one watt the speaker operates at 95 dB, it will operate at 97 dB at two watts, 100 dB at four, 103 dB at eight, 106 dB at 16, and so on and so forth.
Its because of this that the original dB rating of a speaker matters so much more than the power of an amplifier driving it. You dont want to drive so much power into a speaker as to blow it out, and you dont want to drive much less as to fall short of the potential of the equipment. This is one of the main reasons you want to pick your speakers before your amplifier when setting up a proper audio system.
2) Bi-Amping :- The high end speakers also offers Bi-Amping Terminals i.e. you will have two set of wires running from your speakers so you can plug one set of wire that will carry the high frequency to the amplifier having lesser power and the mid and bass woofer can be driven by the other amplifier having more power. You can also use surround back channels for bi-amping as there are very few blue ray discs that are decoded with the 7.1 format so if you have the 7.1 receiver you can experiment with that also.I have the dali ikon 6 with bi-amp terminals but till now i haven't experimented yet but by next sunday I will be bi-amping my speakers and will share my experience with you guys.

Personally I would still suggest you to go for the quality speakers, look for higher sensitivity and then select your receiver.

 

[shanmune]

Well I differ with shanmune's opinion as in a way it is important to have sufficient amount of wattage per channel if you are investing in hifi speakers as you have to match the rms wattage of your speakers with that of the receiver to drive them efficiently but there are few more things which are more important than wattage.
1) Speakers Sensitivity :-Speakers come in a wide variety of sizes and shapes, but what really sets them apart is how good they sound and how loud they can be. Having a really nice looking speaker that doesnt have the power to fill a given space with clear, vibrant audio can be a disappointing thing. For this reason, its important to look at multiple factors when making your speaker purchase.

For example, what is the decibel rating of that speaker? The decibel rating is a direct indication of how loud the speakers can be. For example, a speaker with 90 dB/1 means that at 1 watt of power, the sound produced by the speaker at a distance of 1 meter is 90 dB. This is pretty loud, especially when you consider that normal human speech is roughly 65-70 dB.

So, why doesnt a 100 w amplifier blow the windows off your home when you crank it up? Theres a significant loss of volume gain as the wattage increases. In fact, it takes double the wattage to drive a speaker to a 3 dB increase. If at one watt the speaker operates at 95 dB, it will operate at 97 dB at two watts, 100 dB at four, 103 dB at eight, 106 dB at 16, and so on and so forth.
Its because of this that the original dB rating of a speaker matters so much more than the power of an amplifier driving it. You dont want to drive so much power into a speaker as to blow it out, and you dont want to drive much less as to fall short of the potential of the equipment. This is one of the main reasons you want to pick your speakers before your amplifier when setting up a proper audio system.
2) Bi-Amping :- The high end speakers also offers Bi-Amping Terminals i.e. you will have two set of wires running from your speakers so you can plug one set of wire that will carry the high frequency to the amplifier having lesser power and the mid and bass woofer can be driven by the other amplifier having more power. You can also use surround back channels for bi-amping as there are very few blue ray discs that are decoded with the 7.1 format so if you have the 7.1 receiver you can experiment with that also.I have the dali ikon 6 with bi-amp terminals but till now i haven't experimented yet but by next sunday I will be bi-amping my speakers and will share my experience with you guys.

Personally I would still suggest you to go for the quality speakers, look for higher sensitivity and then select your receiver.

Hi hemant,
Thanks for sharing your perspective. I do agree with you on some of your points and you are absolutely right on the wattage volume level relation. Basically, what I am going to state here is a converse theorem of the same what you have said.

Your theorem To double the sound level (in steps of 10 db) -> Need 8 times more watts.
The point is - Doubling the sound level (to an extent of blowing the windows) is not part of the HT user's agenda. Let me describe more after writing the converse of this theorem,

Converse theorem : Even to hear/perceive a change in the sound level, the sound level should increase by at least 3 db --> So even to perceive a change in the sound level, we need double the power.

Though both the theories are true, let's see which theory is applicable for HT or music system with an example.
Let's say I have two amplifiers: AMP-A (50 watts) /AMP-B (80 watts)
Let's say I hear music with the average sound level of say 100dB (which is generally an average sound level to hear music without fatigue).
Let's say power required for producing 100 db is 3 watts (assuming speaker sensitivity as 90 db/watt).
As you know, the music sound level will not be at constant 100 db. There will be some peaks and average level. That is, peak can touch a minimum of 115 to 120 db (10 db level will be perceived by our ears as double increase in the sound) Any way, let's have a conservative figure of 115 db as the peak and 100 db as the mid or average.

Now, when the music is at the sound level of 100 db, both AMP-A and AMP-B just need 3 watts which is more than sufficient. But the moment the sound level (peak) touches 115 db, the power required would jump from 3 watts to (32 x 3=96 watts). This 96 watts is called as dynamic power.

With AMP-A (rated 50 watts continuous power) can still supply the dynamic power required (96 watts) for a short burst, but it will still result in clipping. Whereas AMP-B (rated at 80 watts continuous power) can also supply 96 watts dynamic power in short burst, but it will have minimal clipping compared to AMP-A.

So when I say it is converse - That is, the power is not meant for cranking up the volume level to the roof, but meant more for meeting the dynamic power which arises even if the sound level increases only by few decibels.

Having said that, higher sensitivity speakers need not always sound great. There are some great speakers which have very less sensitivity. I am not saying we should completely rule out the speaker sensitivity parameter. One should try to fund a balance between sound quality and sensitivity. For example, you find speakers-A with high sensitivity (90 db) and speakers-B with lesser sensitivity (86 db). Now which one should be picked ? It depends on the context. It might so happen that speaker-B might sound great with you amp and you might simply pick it. Or, even if your speaker-B sounds great, your amp might have clipping issues with speakers-B and so you might end up with speaker-A. The converse might be also true where speaker-A might sound great and if you amp doesn't have the muscle, the speakers-A would be best to go for. What I am saying is that we cannot go only on the parameter of sensitivity. There are many parameters which collectively determines the overall SQ.

If I am wrong in my assumptions, please feel free to correct me and that would help.

 

[bhaskarvurs]

Hello Guys.
Now need your help in deciding about speakers.

 

[hemant_22engg]

What's your budget for the speakers and wihich system you ar going to make first stereo setup i.e. 2.1 or complete 5.1 setup?

 

[bhaskarvurs]

Hi Hemanth,

I have got dennon x2000 and i need 5.1 setup and area of my room is 10*11 Sqf. need your valuable input

 

[bhaskarvurs]

Hi Hemanth,

sorry to add, budget is not a major constraint if there is a need. if there comes a budget constraint then will slowly build the system then compromise on the quality. right now i am prepared fro budget for 1 to 1.5L. Thanks

 

[prosenjit]

for 1.5 lakh..10*11 rom go for finest stuffs..you dont need too powerful stuff..

 

[bhaskarvurs]

Hi prosenjit,

Any suggestions?

 

[prosenjit]

is this fixed or..you can go centre,fronts now..and rest later..

 

[bhaskarvurs]

yes, i am flexible

 

[ravikumar21]

Hello Guys

I am planning to buy Kef q300 and marantz nr 1506, my question is around the price.
The pr fx delete in pune is offering me marantz nr 1506 for a price of 57000, the same player is Avila le in hi fimart for 40000, the dealer says that if you buy from hi fimart, the marantz service centre will not repair in case of problems since it is an online purchase,
wanted to check with the members of this group if this is true, I don't want to risk the warranty of the product. Appreciate your valuable inputs

Also q300 is offered at 47000 is that the correct price ?