How many of you agree with spending money on a good quality DAC
- Thread starter john_k_antony
- Start date
AFAIK AP's NOS DAC that I have is not a production model but only a one off piece. It has dual TDA 1541 chipa so can only do 16/44 and no hi rez but it suits me fine.
Sure Srini, let's do it. Tell me the date, time and venue.
@John
I have not really detailed out why I chose the W4S DAC 2...
John, I have about 1000 CDs and close to 2000 LPs that I want to keep... there are 2-300 LPs that I have put away and am slowly selling... Now that being in the background, what I find is that I have not put on a CD more than 3-4 times in the last 3 years-- and that too when i have had audiophile guests who come over with their own CDs for a listen...
I have almost all the CD titles on Vinyl and prefer Vinyl to CD.
However, to say that I don't listen to a digital front end, or that I don't need one, would be a lie.
I do listen to a lot of FLAC... before making an investment on a new title on LP, I get the FLAC. Earlier I would burn the FLAC as a CD and play it through my CD player.
If I liked the album, I'd go an buy it on vinyl.
But this process got too tedious, and in my book very wasteful. As i would not listen to that particular CD again... that much of plastic wasted!
So, in comes the Logitech Squeezebox Touch with a Cambridge Audio Dac Magic...
All sampling started to happen via the SBT. While the SBT is great and convenient, it wont do better than the average CDP in the 50-60k range (tops)... and the DAC Magic coupling to it was of no use. The SBT's in built DAC was just as good.
Overall, I felt that i could do better... At another FM's place - CyberVinay, i undertood how PC + DAC can be a super solution.
So, I started exploring... I certainly did not want to spend an obscene amount of money on a DAC and PC as I'd rather utilise that money on optimising my Vinyl playback...
So, for PC, I brought in the services of my back-up Dell Laptop. Its a Core2 Duo Machine, with 3 GB Ram... (will be upgrading the RAM to 8 GB). And after a fair amount of auditioning I chose the W4S DAC 2...
There is one other DAC at the 1L price point that I quite liked and that is the Thyaga DAC from AP.
The W4S DAC 2 is just a touch better, however... Just a touch, mind.
Both these above mentioned DAC's stand head and shoulders above other Dac's in the sub 1L mark.
And I do not go by reviews... I like to make my own judgement as I have burnt my fingers way too many times in the past....
I have not really detailed out why I chose the W4S DAC 2...
John, I have about 1000 CDs and close to 2000 LPs that I want to keep... there are 2-300 LPs that I have put away and am slowly selling... Now that being in the background, what I find is that I have not put on a CD more than 3-4 times in the last 3 years-- and that too when i have had audiophile guests who come over with their own CDs for a listen...
I have almost all the CD titles on Vinyl and prefer Vinyl to CD.
However, to say that I don't listen to a digital front end, or that I don't need one, would be a lie.
I do listen to a lot of FLAC... before making an investment on a new title on LP, I get the FLAC. Earlier I would burn the FLAC as a CD and play it through my CD player.
If I liked the album, I'd go an buy it on vinyl.
But this process got too tedious, and in my book very wasteful. As i would not listen to that particular CD again... that much of plastic wasted!
So, in comes the Logitech Squeezebox Touch with a Cambridge Audio Dac Magic...
All sampling started to happen via the SBT. While the SBT is great and convenient, it wont do better than the average CDP in the 50-60k range (tops)... and the DAC Magic coupling to it was of no use. The SBT's in built DAC was just as good.
Overall, I felt that i could do better... At another FM's place - CyberVinay, i undertood how PC + DAC can be a super solution.
So, I started exploring... I certainly did not want to spend an obscene amount of money on a DAC and PC as I'd rather utilise that money on optimising my Vinyl playback...
So, for PC, I brought in the services of my back-up Dell Laptop. Its a Core2 Duo Machine, with 3 GB Ram... (will be upgrading the RAM to 8 GB). And after a fair amount of auditioning I chose the W4S DAC 2...
There is one other DAC at the 1L price point that I quite liked and that is the Thyaga DAC from AP.
The W4S DAC 2 is just a touch better, however... Just a touch, mind.
Both these above mentioned DAC's stand head and shoulders above other Dac's in the sub 1L mark.
And I do not go by reviews... I like to make my own judgement as I have burnt my fingers way too many times in the past....
cmsajith
Well-Known Member
You can try the Octave dac from Mectrum Acoustics which is having very good reviews. This is even compared with Yamamoto YDA01
6moons audio reviews: Metrum Acoustics NOS Mini DAC Octave
6moons audio reviews: Metrum Acoustics NOS Mini DAC Octave
apk
Well-Known Member
John,
At the price point you are looking at (Rs 50-60K), you could also consider the Rega DAC. Known to be very musical, this DAC is available through HFV Mart for around Rs 50K. The good thing is that the India price is very competitive compared to the price in the UK. You also get official warranty in India for a year.
Now, I have not heard this DAC, but there is very good feedback on other forums abroad (audiokarma, etc).
I think a couple of FMs here (Hydra, Anurag) own the Rega DAC. You could contact them to find out.
Best,
APK.
At the price point you are looking at (Rs 50-60K), you could also consider the Rega DAC. Known to be very musical, this DAC is available through HFV Mart for around Rs 50K. The good thing is that the India price is very competitive compared to the price in the UK. You also get official warranty in India for a year.
Now, I have not heard this DAC, but there is very good feedback on other forums abroad (audiokarma, etc).
I think a couple of FMs here (Hydra, Anurag) own the Rega DAC. You could contact them to find out.
Best,
APK.
square_wave
Well-Known Member
Hey Manav
From our last discussion, you were saying that you are using the balanced out from the W4S DAC. Have you tried the single ended out? Is there a quality difference? I am wondering how this will affect folks who do not do balanced.
srinisundar
Well-Known Member
2chFreak
New Member
single ended RCAs on the W4S dacs are derived from the Balanced XLRs hence they are one & the same. Only impedance halves.
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
Big numbers at big prices ... for what? For the satisfaction of being able to quote the numbers? The only possible reason, apart from those numbers, to buy something like this would be if the quality and engineering is so dammed good that, numbers aside, it makes the whole thing worthwhile, and then the big numbers become somewhat irrelevant anyway.
Is there any 384khz music? If there is, can anybody (blind, mind you!) tell? Oh, and if you have your heart set on that you have to buy a Mac to get it.
Warmth? Use a graphic equaliser in software: it's free. In fact, you can distort your sound to your absolutely specific taste in software: I must find out how to get 1950s Radiogram sound so I can have a childhood-listening fest
. Don't say this is impure, artificial, etc: isn't it how a lot of music was recorded in the first place?Excuse the cynicism. This unit may well be just wonderful: obviously, I cannot say that it isn't. It's not the money as such that bothers me: we all have our favourite fantasy items, and among mine would be a $2,000 headphone amplifier. And that would hardly make a dent in the fantasy budget for Stax headphones/amplification
There are obviously different requirements and applications for a DAC, one of which may well be numerous and varied I/O options, but leaving that aside, if I wanted a DAC that I knew to have been designed by someone with a personal passion for getting the design and engineering as right as possible --- I'd buy an ODAC, and pocket the hundreds-to-thousands of dollars difference.
square_wave
Well-Known Member
Antelope audio is a well known engineering focused company with a very good presence in the pro audio world.
If the sound from this DAC is worth the money is something only the listener can say ! There are folks who spent many times more on digital front ends. Most of them swear by what they own. As always only your ears and the rest of your equipment can decide.
square_wave
Well-Known Member
----Antelope ----
The guy is offering to send you a demo unit for trial if you like it, he sends a new one or else you send the demo unit back and get a full refund. Fair deal I would say !
The guy is offering to send you a demo unit for trial if you like it, he sends a new one or else you send the demo unit back and get a full refund. Fair deal I would say !
2chFreak
New Member
Antelope dacs are used by some of the finest studios whose finished material we buy, listen and get kicks from ..
yes they use this dac to get their job done. Am told its good. One is soon to arrive to me for trial / testing. will post feedback upon testing.
yes they use this dac to get their job done. Am told its good. One is soon to arrive to me for trial / testing. will post feedback upon testing.
square_wave
Well-Known Member
I have heard it on both, I prefer the balanced outs... however, i feel that could also be a function of the quality of the Balanced IC's... my XLR's are the totl Audioquest Diamond.... they used to cost 30% more than what the W4S Dac2 costs!
the single ended ICs are a very modest VDH D102 Mk2... so that could also be causing the difference...
john_k_antony
Well-Known Member
Hey Malvai,
Thanks much for the details. Very interesting read. BTW, may I know your vinyls setup?
Even I love to move on to Vinyl and as a start I got Project Debut III with some upgrades on platter, speed box and stylus. I will be upgrading my TT later next year to a better one. For now Debut III is good enough. After I started listening to Vinyl, I too have reduced my CDP usage. Since the issue of not getting most of the music you needed in Vinyl, the only other option is to get CD. So I am looking at a CD setup that will sound close to Vinyl sound.
-John.
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I had the non USB version of this DAC. It was good but not to my taste. Felt it was too sterile. At that time I also had a Musical Fidelity XDAC v8. Felt it was much better, of course it cost 50% more, but to me it sounded more musical. I am not too familar with current DAc's in the $1k range so I cannot comment.
Cheers,
Sid
john_k_antony
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the clarification.
I have read quite some reviews about Benchmark DACs to be pretty brighter. I dont like bright sound. There was a good comparison in audiogon forum regarding Benchmark DAC1 and W4S DAC2. The reviewer said he didn't like the sound from W4S to start with, but he said it grew on him as he listened more and more of it. He said W4S is more towards "dark" sounding and I guess that what I prefer.
-John.
I have read quite some reviews about Benchmark DACs to be pretty brighter. I dont like bright sound. There was a good comparison in audiogon forum regarding Benchmark DAC1 and W4S DAC2. The reviewer said he didn't like the sound from W4S to start with, but he said it grew on him as he listened more and more of it. He said W4S is more towards "dark" sounding and I guess that what I prefer.
-John.
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
In that case, the price may well be justified by the build quality and...square_wave said:
...That's true!
So, despite my previous misgivings, this thing might actually be a bargain
. Oh heck, I can do without more expensive stuff to add to my fantasy list :sad:.
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grubyhalo
New Member
Hi,
I know this topic has been discussed a lot, still would like to get a fresh opinion from you guys
What do you guys think about spending $500-1000 for a DAC. I have the Oppo-93 BDP and wanted to use that as my CDP and media player (for FLACs from my HDD). Now the DAC in the Oppo-93 is just mediocre. I thought a lot between Oppo-95 and Oppo-93 before buying Oppo-93. I thought with Oppo-93, I can add a DAC to improve the stereo performance...
Garbage in, garbage out. Since most of the commercially available music would be digital in the future, I would try to get the best possible DAC for my system. Based on a lot of user reviews, I'd go for a Saber ES9018 based DAC. Out of the options mentioned here, I'd choose the M-DAC (or a CD8200CD/Q) because it uses the Saber chip and it's designed by John Westlake, the designer of Pink Triangle's DaCapo, Cambridge Audio's DACMagic, CD4, CD4SE, CD6, DAC 123, ISO Magic among others. The W4S DAC would be my next option. If I am ready to splurge more than $4000, I'd probably scout for a good deal on a used AKM-based mid-level Esoteric DAC/CDP with a digital-in. However, have you given any thought about DIY? The TPA Buffalo 3 (and the upcoming 3SE) would be a very good option to consider.
Here's a multi-part link that discusses the Audiolab CD and DAC products in length:
At last... (Audiolab) - part I - pink fish media
At last... (Audiolab) - part II - pink fish media
At last... (Audiolab) - part III - pink fish media
At last... (Audiolab) - part IV - pink fish media
At last... (Audiolab) - part V - pink fish media
A resolution that high is usually used for studio masters, I think. I could be wrong about the exact benefits of sampling music that high, but I understand that it may give more headroom when mastering dynamic music, like classical for instance. Here are some of the places I know that sell 352.8kHz/24-bit audio tracks:
High Resolution Music DOWNLOAD services .:. FLAC in free TEST BENCH
HIGHRESAUDIO | Home of audiophile music
Ofcourse, like the CPU clockspeed-race of yore, the 'KHz' may not mean much for most of the music that would be peddled, but it just might be worth it on atleast some music...
john_k_antony
Well-Known Member
Hey Thank you very much for the details.
May I know why you picked Audiolab M DAC over W4S DAC1/DAC2. I know M DAC costs half the price of W4S DAC1, but uses the same ESS 9018 32bit DAC chip. Any other significant advantage M DAC got over W4S? Even I want to get a DAC with ESS 9018 chip.
Thanks,
John.
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