How to make bass sound tighter?

[subsatya]

My system-
Onkyo SR444
Paradigm CT 100

I am quite satisfied with the quality of the sound that I get currently. But the bass from 8inch Cinema sub is quite soft edged. I had a Logitech Z5500 10 inch subwoofer before. That was quite hard edged tight sounding one.

Please suggest me if there is anything that I am missing. Suggest me if there is any setting with the av receiver that can result in tighter bass. More of beat bass and less of harmonic humming bass. The sub is in corner of the room. The setting in avr is -3 sub and sub itself is set at 120hz. Power level at 30%. Crossover in avr is at 80hz.
Thanks in advance!

 

[tuff]

Have you done proper placement of the sub using the subwoofer crawl technique? Speaker positioning is extremely important for optimum performance.

 

[Ravindra Desai]

My system-
Onkyo SR444
Paradigm CT 100

I am quite satisfied with the quality of the sound that I get currently. But the bass from 8inch Cinema sub is quite soft edged. I had a Logitech Z5500 10 inch subwoofer before. That was quite hard edged tight sounding one.

Please suggest me if there is anything that I am missing. Suggest me if there is any setting with the av receiver that can result in tighter bass. More of beat bass and less of harmonic humming bass. The sub is in corner of the room. The setting in avr is -3 sub and sub itself is set at 120hz. Power level at 30%. Crossover in avr is at 80hz.
Thanks in advance!

There are two crossover networks working at present (why one at 120Hz and other at 80Hz?): one in the AVR and one in the Subwoofer. This results in unpredictable response because of the complex (unknown) phase relations of both crossovers. It also results in uncertain integration with your main speakers.
Even if you think the auto eq will take care of it, remember, it will be a compromise.
Ideally there should only be one crossover. Look into this to see if you can defeat one crossover either in the AVR or in the sub.

In addition to this you should also try the suggestion in post # 2 by @tuff

Regards,

Ravindra.

 

[subsatya]

Thanks a lot. I have done the subwoofer crawl. And it is at the optimum place.
I think I will turn off the subwoofer crossover, by turning it to maximum. I don't know how to shut down avr crossover.

Doing a bit of research, I found out that dampening the ports of subwoofer might also help. Usually with cloth.

 

[elangoas]

I think I will turn off the subwoofer crossover, by turning it to maximum. I don't know how to shut down avr crossover.

Yes.. You will have to turn off the crossover on the subwoofer and use the crossover in the AVR..

You can't turn off the crossover in the AVR.. You can adjust 40/50/60 up to 120 Hz in increments.. Since the paradigm CT100 is a satellite package, you are better with 100/120 Hz crossover..

The sub is in corner of the room.

Getting correct bass, is the most challenging in any room..Try moving it in to the room.. May be in the middle of the room.. away from walls..

 

[vj_box]

Thanks a lot. I have done the subwoofer crawl. And it is at the optimum place.
I think I will turn off the subwoofer crossover, by turning it to maximum. I don't know how to shut down avr crossover.

Doing a bit of research, I found out that dampening the ports of subwoofer might also help. Usually with cloth.

Firstly dial the crossover on the sub all the way to max so its bypasses the one in the sub and lets the AVR control the bass management. Subs usually sound muddy in corners and near walls and an optimum position is a few inches next to the front left speaker so it sits between the front left and center speaker. Also makes sure you dont stick it all the way back to the rear wall.

As secondary steps try a bass trap in all corners (where available) so it traps some of those nasty frequencies that affect the bass performance.

For the setting, you are usually well off with a 30-35% volume on the sub. In your AVR, you can try 0db or even a -2 or so and see if it tightens the bass.

Remember, in most cases, the room is what that contributes to a good or bad bass. An average sub in a well treated room would sound greater than a good sub in a normal room with no acoutsic treatment.

 

[Indranil Sen]

subsatya- Not sure what you mean by a soft bass but if you feel that it is not adequate then you might be sitting in a null zone which is very common in rooms that are not specifically built as a listening rooms. You can experiment by moving your couch a couple of inches in all four directions to see if the current situation improves.
Subwoofer crawl is a good start for subwoofer placement but it is always better to measure the frequency response at the couch after placing the sub on the desired spot. The REW software is a free room measuring software that along with a UMIK USB microphone will allow you to measure the room repsonse of your speakers including subwoofer. This will take any guess-work out of the mix and will clearly show you if you are sitting in a null zone for a specific set of requencies.
UMIK tool costs about $100.00 but it will be a good investment down the line if you really want to get a good handle of the room for getting optimal sound output.
Thanks

 

[hifitoaster]

My system-
Onkyo SR444
Paradigm CT 100

I am quite satisfied with the quality of the sound that I get currently. But the bass from 8inch Cinema sub is quite soft edged. I had a Logitech Z5500 10 inch subwoofer before. That was quite hard edged tight sounding one.

Please suggest me if there is anything that I am missing. Suggest me if there is any setting with the av receiver that can result in tighter bass. More of beat bass and less of harmonic humming bass. The sub is in corner of the room. The setting in avr is -3 sub and sub itself is set at 120hz. Power level at 30%. Crossover in avr is at 80hz.
Thanks in advance!

its possible to change the frequency response from a sub at a listening spot by changing its position, or fiddling with an eq or a crossover. 'soft ' and 'tight' are due to the limitations of subwoofer design itself. If its a poor box design, you can add some bitument pads to the walls, add more filling to make them tighter. But, if the driver is not quick enough to retain come to its static position. well you are out of options than getting a tighter sub. The logitech's were tighter sounding than an average entry level HTB sub. so even if your current system can be less boomy or can go low, that is what it can do at the best.


"Doing a bit of research, I found out that dampening the ports of subwoofer might also help. Usually with cloth. " try this if it works , that means the box wasnt the best designed. But, that being said, before jumping into conclusions try to play louder. Since it limits the air flow of the ports, the subs will get into distortion at at lower volume than normal. Try cottom foam instead of a cloth.

 

[spirovious]

Try changing sw cable.
Also SW placement is important.
Some SW crossover do not work if use LFE in.

 

[Indranil Sen]

I agree. So your issue was slow bass response rather than inadequate bass response. Yes this will definitely not scale with music. What do you typically use the sub for, music, movies or both? There are so many good subs currently available in the market that will help you overcome your this issue very easily. So audition a few subs of your choice and get a new one.
Happy listening!!!

 

[Hari Iyer]

poor integration of main speakers with sub also cause poor, laid back and sluggish bass. It always better to have a variable phase control feature in your subwoofer plate amplifier, that will allow your subwoofer's phase to be synced with the main speaker phase - thereby contributing to tighter bass.

 

[efernand1]

My system-
Onkyo SR444
Paradigm CT 100

I am quite satisfied with the quality of the sound that I get currently. But the bass from 8inch Cinema sub is quite soft edged. I had a Logitech Z5500 10 inch subwoofer before. That was quite hard edged tight sounding one.

Please suggest me if there is anything that I am missing. Suggest me if there is any setting with the av receiver that can result in tighter bass. More of beat bass and less of harmonic humming bass. The sub is in corner of the room. The setting in avr is -3 sub and sub itself is set at 120hz. Power level at 30%. Crossover in avr is at 80hz.
Thanks in advance!

How long have you been using this system? If for a couple of years now, did you face this bass issue from the beginning? Here are the CT 100 specs

https://www.paradigm.com/products-current/model=cinema-100-ct/page=specs

Bass differs from 8 inc to 10 inch drivers...it also depends on the cone motion, type of cabinet, Down firing or front firing subs, kind of sub amp being used etc.

Overall 8 inch subs of most known brands output 32 -35 hz as minimum. 10 inch subs are know to go lower till 25hz and 12 inch can go low for further....the caveat here is that there could be smaller subs like the Def Tech SuperCube 4000 which has a 7 inch driver and passive radiators....it emits out frequencies as low as 16hz......all depends on cone material, in built amp, design etc.

 

[Indranil Sen]

I think there are several factors including the design of the subwoofer itself could lead to slow bass response and the key offenders are likely going to be subwoofer positioning and room response with a good sub. That is why I feel that REW analysis is so important to quantify the issue and simplify the troubleshooting process.
Thanks.

 

[subsatya]

Thanks for the help. The bass is boomy. It is humming or I think it's called mid bass, and it should decrease. Only the thump should be felt.

By soft bass I meant the beats are not felt as they should be. The Logitech 10 inch sub did not have a port at the rear. Paradigm has two rear ports.

 

[Indranil Sen]

subsatya- Paradigm manufactures one of the very finest subwoofers currently available in the market. They are very fast and musical, at-least the reference model that I heard was fantastic. Although I haven't heard CT100 but I would doubt that there would be a major design issue with this model. I would call my dealer and find out his feedback on this model.
Thanks

 

[tuff]

Thanks for the help. The bass is boomy. It is humming or I think it's called mid bass, and it should decrease. Only the thump should be felt.

By soft bass I meant the beats are not felt as they should be. The Logitech 10 inch sub did not have a port at the rear. Paradigm has two rear ports.

Try to move the sub away from the walls at least 2 feet from the wall the ports are facing. Is the room relatively empty?

 

[subsatya]

Try to move the sub away from the walls at least 2 feet from the wall the ports are facing. Is the room relatively empty?

I think that's the main issue. It is closer to the wall. I will have to move it forward, towards my sofa.

 

[prateekatasniya]

Bass traps works wonders.
Sluggish bass is due to increased decay time.
Bass traps reduce the decay time.

Next is the speed of the sub.
Sealed subs have much less decay time.

 

[subsatya]

Bass traps works wonders.
Sluggish bass is due to increased decay time.
Bass traps reduce the decay time.

Next is the speed of the sub.
Sealed subs have much less decay time.

Any guidance on bass traps will be appreciated.

 

[hifitoaster]

Bass traps works wonders.
Sluggish bass is due to increased decay time.
Bass traps reduce the decay time.

Next is the speed of the sub.
Sealed subs have much less decay time.

Bass traps works wonders.
Sluggish bass is due to increased decay time.
Bass traps reduce the decay time.

Next is the speed of the sub.
Sealed subs have much less decay time.

This is the only reason I could actually think off, its decaying slowly before it reaches you. Either sub has slow decay or the room has. If the sub bass traps can work. The issue with the room is due to the reflected wave of the same frequency is reaching you at a different time later than than the direct wave. Bass traps absorbs these and there by letting you hear the direct (which is fast as the sub). So you need go near and listen the sub to make sure the sub itself is not the villian. Can you post a pic of the set up?