I finally went analogue, and it's the best sound I've ever heard.

[vkalia]

I have been tempted by vinyl for a very long time - only struggle with the relative paucity of music there. And the fact that albums are 5k plus record, when they are $2-10 to buy off Prestomusic.

 

[manek]

Why can’t the music companies understand this basic funda that most of us seem to agree upon? Why can’t they simply use the same masters for the CD as for the LP? (And am not talking of HMV/Saregama who people say have lost their masters).

A few important points why (my own opinion only) :
1) we have plugin operators in todays day and age
2) the original masters are not available to anyone and everyone to re-issue and some of them are not usable anymore so the only way out is to use the next gen or use a earlier re-issue master. Thats also quite a bummer as if you start out with a compromised source…..
3) big companies inspite of having millions of dollars worth of equipment many a Ztimes fail to get a recording or re-issue right. I am sure they could but do they ? See how smaller labels get the basic recording right. See how RCA, Mercury, Verve, etc got it right with the most basic of tools and blades. They did it with the right people who knew their job, their electronics and their music.
4) possibly low budgets as well
5) Do we have people like Rudy Van Gelder or a Al Schmitt or the Decca team anymore ?
6) the public started to consume bad recordings like dark chocolate mousse so who are the companies to say no ? I blame the public mostly for not demanding the best for the money because there was an era where the public did get generally good recordings and re-issues.
7) there was a time when a re-issue meant something.

 

[jenson]

Great to see you rediscover joy of vinyl. Recently I got an opportunity to demo products by lyrita @viren bakhshi sirs residence. Vinly sounded much much fuller in comparison to CD player. Music flows!

The only gripe with vinyl is, when u have had a drink or two and are in a mood to listen to varied music..one wishes we had 3 pairs of hands.

 

[arj]

Why can’t the music companies understand this basic funda that most of us seem to agree upon? Why can’t they simply use the same masters for the CD as for the LP? (And am not talking of HMV/Saregama who people say have lost their masters).

Because same cd master is used for music distributed to fm channels and online streaming companies and the way it's consumed it has to sound loud as much as possible and extreme on highs and lowsz

True
Look at the market segment each adressed. perhaps the below makes sense ?

Digital media: Wide segment of the market of which perhaps less than 1% are truly looking for sound quality and may not have too discerning setups. hence the mastering will be accordingly compressed
Vinyl: much smaller base but majority of folks who will have much more discerning setups and hence mastering will be at a better quality.

I have been tempted by vinyl for a very long time - only struggle with the relative paucity of music there. And the fact that albums are 5k plus record, when they are $2-10 to buy off Prestomusic.

yeah..at these prices it does not make sense to buy records. It was worth it at 600-1 k at these prices the cost of music comes down to a level which needs to be justified !

I usually dont advice new entrants into vinyl unless they already have records.

 

[manek]

Great to see you rediscover joy of vinyl. Recently I got an opportunity to demo products by lyrita @viren bakhshi sirs residence. Vinly sounded much much fuller in comparison to CD player. Music flows!

The only gripe with vinyl is, when u have had a drink or two and are in a mood to listen to varied music..one wishes we had 3 pairs of hands.

Or three turntables

 

[sachinchavan 15865]

Look at the market segment each adressed. perhaps the below makes sense ?

Digital media: Wide segment of the market of which perhaps less than 1% are truly looking for sound quality and may not have too discerning setups. hence the mastering will be accordingly compressed
Vinyl: much smaller base but majority of folks who will have much more discerning setups and hence mastering will be at a better quality.

But then, what does it additionally cost them to make the CDs (or digital music in general) from the vinyl masters if they already have them? Nil! So why not as well?

Also, I doubt one really needs a hi-fi rig to hear the difference in tonality and/or timing. You can make it out even on any half decent commercial music player/headphone.

Another way to argue this: if Apple Music finds takers for lossless (conditions apply) music or Spotify can get you to pay for what they term high quality (320 kbps) to the same digital market, why can’t be musically richer versions made from vinyl masters find takers? Given the marketing prowess of these companies, they can easily create the hype to get crowds to ‘analogish music’!

Because same cd master is used for music distributed to fm channels and online streaming companies and the way it's consumed it has to sound loud as much as possible and extreme on highs and lows

That argument was valid in the days of AM radio. But today with FM radio and digital streaming on capable smartphones with reasonably decent earphones, one doesn’t need that loudness to be provided on the tracks even for radio/streaming.

 

[rikhav]

But then, what does it additionally cost them to make the CDs (or digital music in general) from the vinyl masters if they already have them? Nil! So why not as well?

Also, I doubt one really needs a hi-fi rig to hear the difference in tonality and/or timing. You can make it out even on any half decent commercial music player/headphone.

Another way to argue this: if Apple Music finds takers for lossless (conditions apply) music or Spotify can get you to pay for what they term high quality (320 kbps) to the same digital market, why can’t be musically richer versions made from vinyl masters find takers? Given the marketing prowess of these companies, they can easily create the hype to get crowds to ‘analogish music’!



That argument was valid in the days of AM radio. But today with FM radio and digital streaming on capable smartphones with reasonably decent earphones, one doesn’t need that loudness to be provided on the tracks even for radio/streaming.

That's for the music companies to understand but unfortunately it must be in some way making them loose money which they don't want to

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Very sorry to hear that. What was the mistake? Wrong voltage selection? It could just me a matter of blown fuses.

Hi

I was playing around with cables, and i tried to connect 2 speaker cables to the same bass driver to see if it improved bass quality. This resulted in the 845 power tube to blow. This is easily replacable so will be fixed. However the PS audio still has to be sorted. Initially the 13 Amp fuse inside the plug blew. Even after replacing with a new fuse, the moment i switch on at the wall socket ( The PS audio has not been switched on yet, only just connected ), the room breaker trips. In the past the PS always blew the fuse whenever I tried something silly, but this time i dread to think that something serious might have happened. The issue is that i cant lug it to a technician as it weighs 78 kgs.

 

[rikhav]

Hi

I was playing around with cables, and i tried to connect 2 speaker cables to the same bass driver to see if it improved bass quality. This resulted in the 845 power tube to blow. This is easily replacable so will be fixed. However the PS audio still has to be sorted. Initially the 13 Amp fuse inside the plug blew. Even after replacing with a new fuse, the moment i switch on at the wall socket ( The PS audio has not been switched on yet, only just connected ), the room breaker trips. In the past the PS always blew the fuse whenever I tried something silly, but this time i dread to think that something serious might have happened. The issue is that i cant lug it to a technician as it weighs 78 kgs.

This is the very reason i have started hating heavy equipment

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

This is very strange. Hope the SUT out was connected to the MM in of the Phono ?

My guess is with a loading of 200 ohms + you will get a much better sound.

Hi arj

Yeah the cart specifications did mention 200 to 300 ohms loading. So will solder some 200, 300 & 400 ohms loading plugs to try out.

The phono box has a single set of inputs, and a selector knob for MM & MC. I started with the SUT and MM stage initially. But there was a lot of hiss and hum. So i did open up the SUT to check the internal wiring, and the wiring and the transformers did look in order. So even iam lost as to the reason why the volume was so low, even with the volume on my passive preamp turned to full. When i removed the SUT and switched to MC on the phono, the volume just shot up and it opened up. I have a nagging doubt, that maybe the SUT has wrongly marked inputs and outputs. So will interchange and try it out, as it is difficult to damage a SUT with no moving parts or electronics inside.

Glad you like Vinyl. Also this is exactly the reason why you must ditch that Esoteric and look at something else .

What vinyl does is get the tone and timing right. It gets your foot tapping. Once you realize how vinyl sounds, you'll start doing changes to your digital chain as well to make it sound like analog as the sterile digital sound most high end sources create is no longer fun.

I could'nt have put it across better. You actually hit the nail on the head. It is actually the tone that was so different. I was spinning the "Hotel california" , which ive heard 100's of times. But the tone of the instruments was spooky real. The guitar opening, is the most realistic Ive heard. And as rightly suggested, my search for a realistic sounding dac might actually start, though iam uncertain i want to invest in the digital side of things as of now.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

I have been tempted by vinyl for a very long time - only struggle with the relative paucity of music there. And the fact that albums are 5k plus record, when they are $2-10 to buy off Prestomusic.

The quality of the music playback depends heavily on the quality of the LP itself. And records seem to be getting expensive with every passing day. And good ones, are exhorbitant.

 

[prem]

For the TSD, try 300, 250 and 200 ohms. No need to go to 400

 

[arj]

Hi arj

Yeah the cart specifications did mention 200 to 300 ohms loading. So will solder some 200, 300 & 400 ohms loading plugs to try out.

The phono box has a single set of inputs, and a selector knob for MM & MC. I started with the SUT and MM stage initially. But there was a lot of hiss and hum

Hiss and hum are very weird sounds from a SUT. Hum can be due to RFI but really curious about any hiss. Could the problem be at the MM input of the phono ?

 

[Lizard King]

I have been tempted by vinyl for a very long time - only struggle with the relative paucity of music there. And the fact that albums are 5k plus record, when they are $2-10 to buy off Prestomusic.

It's one life we live. Don't hold back.

I'm so intrigued. Look what a good vinyl rig can inspire even when only one channel is running.
Just imagine when both L&R are fired up..

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

It's one life we live. Don't hold back.

I'm so intrigued. Look what a good vinyl rig can inspire even when only one channel is running.
Just imagine when both L&R are fired up..

Very true indeed

Music always sounded the same to me, both on Bluetooth speakers and my main rig. Though the main rig as can be imagined makes things better. I was so happy with the system I had stitched over the last 10 years, that I didn't buy anything this year, except a azur 851N for convenience, rather than improving my sound quality .

Then suddenly one addition, turns my entire perspective of music upside down. I was never in the resolution and detail game. But now iam firmly in the tone and timbre game. As @reignofchaos correctly mentioned, now I want everything sounding like my vinyl rig. The musical enjoyment that comes with the correct representation of tone and timing, is unexplainable but can only be experienced. This is the closest I've come to having real instruments playing in my room. And iam afraid a dac change is imminent.

@vkalia ..please take the plunge... Despite the associated costs involved, I still think it is worthwhile.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Hiss and hum are very weird sounds from a SUT. Hum can be due to RFI but really curious about any hiss. Could the problem be at the MM input of the phono ?

Yeah it could be the MM stage too, but I really doubt it. The phono stage is brand new, though its been sitting in the closet for 2 years now. I really want to try the EMT route. From my reading alone I believe they were proponents of having a SUT feeding a tubed phono stage. Iam at my parents place now, and will only return home on Sunday. So will recheck the SUT then and will post back

 

[vkalia]

It's one life we live. Don't hold back.

It's not that - it's literally too hard to find a fraction of what I want on LP. I looked through TRC's collection and there are maybe 3 albums i want to listen to. Pretty much nothing i have listened to in the last 30-45 days in on there.

Believe me, i am looking for an excuse to get vinyl. But i need to have music to listen to - listening to the same 4-5 albums just because of sound is a rabbithole i dont want to enter again.

As an aside, i miss having record stores to walk into/browse. That is such a forgotten pleasure!

 

[Lizard King]

It's not that - it's literally too hard to find a fraction of what I want on LP. I looked through TRC's collection and there are maybe 3 albums i want to listen to. Pretty much nothing i have listened to in the last 30-45 days in on there.

Believe me, i am looking for an excuse to get vinyl. But i need to have music to listen to - listening to the same 4-5 albums just because of sound is a rabbithole i dont want to enter again.

As an aside, i miss having record stores to walk into/browse. That is such a forgotten pleasure!

I completely share your pain. Though I must admit my guilt in being a little luckier than you.
About 5 years ago I started augmenting my old collection, mostly Baroque/Renaissance/Classical period and classic rock/blues/jazz masters. Those days amazon.in was flush with choices. After COVID, everything collapsed. I also picked up lots of stuff in smaller UK towns, the pleasure of rummaging. Now I haven't been traveling a lot, but I can see quite a good collection in Amazon UK/US/Germany. Maybe you can pick them up during travels or get them hand carried.
For me, one of the essence of vinyls is slow, deliberate actions and a connection or story behind every acquisition. I can practically tell a story about every vinyl that I bought, got gifted, inherited or stole. That takes time. Start getting into it slowly, and devote a decade to build a good collection. It'll be worth looking back.

 

[bornfi]

It is not about the detail or resolution. But about sounding just right in a enjoyable way

IMO detail/resolution are related to enjoyment .

Why can’t the music companies understand this basic funda that most of us seem to agree upon? Why can’t they simply use the same masters for the CD as for the LP? (And am not talking of HMV/Saregama who people say have lost their masters).

They do, I think, it is just that the equalization applied before stamping CD or vinyl is different.

 

[vkalia]

I completely share your pain. Though I must admit my guilt in being a little luckier than you.
About 5 years ago I started augmenting my old collection, mostly Baroque/Renaissance/Classical period and classic rock/blues/jazz masters. Those days amazon.in was flush with choices. After COVID, everything collapsed. I also picked up lots of stuff in smaller UK towns, the pleasure of rummaging. Now I haven't been traveling a lot, but I can see quite a good collection in Amazon UK/US/Germany. Maybe you can pick them up during travels or get them hand carried.
For me, one of the essence of vinyls is slow, deliberate actions and a connection or story behind every acquisition. I can practically tell a story about every vinyl that I bought, got gifted, inherited or stole. That takes time. Start getting into it slowly, and devote a decade to build a good collection. It'll be worth looking back.

That's a great idea. I dont have to replicate my entire collection on LP - but if i can get even some of my favorite works, that could be an option. Gonna start looking when i travel.