IMP - Language Adherence

[bizarre]

I tend to agree with the moderator here. A kid tends to behave the way the elders around behave. Same is applicable for newbies here, they will see the forum the way senior members would show them. If I say s**t is a usual word for me, somebody would consider a** as a usual word, and some would consider f*** a usual word. We got to draw a line somewhere or get ready for a disaster! Nobody can decide what's appropriate and what's not but we all can decide it from within if it's right or not. For example, to me a language is prohibitive if I can't use it in front of the ones I respect.

Anyways moderators' job is very difficult, defining clear guidelines is the only way.

My 2 cents.

 

[venkatcr]

But pray tell what is "inappropriate use of language"? Who decides this? How is a mod qualified to certify what is appropriate and inappropriate? For example someone would classify this - "scared the sh** out of me" as inappropriate language. For me - it's part of the way I/we speak and a lot of people I know or do not know would have no objection to this.

How is the police qualified to police? How is the government qualified to govern? How is an MD qualified to manage? These are endless questions for which we will never have any answer. To overcome this, the forum has a set of rules that everyone is expected to follow. If you break these rules, then there is no (hopefully) no argument. A decision has to be taken, and decisions are always (in all aspects of life) unilateral. The moderator could discuss with others as to what is to be done, but for majority of the members, the decision will be and look like being unilateral and universally applicable.

All of us have to follow two or three standards of behaviour. The way you speak to your school/college friends cannot be used elsewhere or with other people. The way you talk to your spouse is very special and cannot be done with others. When you address your friend you may use familiarity and even a slightly 'insulting' tone, for want of a better word. I am referring to the 'Thu' and 'Aap' of Hindi, or the 'Nee' and 'Neenga' in Tamil. But when you address an elder, you have to switch to a tone that is respectful. We do this everyday of our life. So I see no issue in following similar principles here.

The same goes for "writing style" and "general tone". IMO, these cannot and should not be moderated. There are some people here who are not very fluent in English and I notice that they write in English the way they would speak in their native tongue and I respect that but others may object to this style of writing and tone. SHould these be moderated? IMO, No! Please, please do not attempt to moderate anything subjective.

When we went to school, we were taught both talking and writing skills. If you come across a book that is badly written with over abundant use of exclamation marks, wrong punctuation, bad spelling and the use of SMS language, would you buy that book? I sincerely hope not. Now, one can say a professional writer is expected to write well and that is what he is paid for. Agreed. At the same time when you communicate with someone else, a language has been developed over many years to have a set of rules and custom. If you do not have knowledge of these rules and custom, you simply are not communicating well.

I understand someone may not be fluent in English, but unless he communicates well and in a manner that can be understood by a majority of the forum members, he is not doing any favours to anybody, most important, to himself. With lack of understanding people will lose interest and just walk away. Some rudimentary knowledge of a language is necessary before you start using that language. Saying this is the way I speak, and I don't care whether your like it or understand it is a little difficult to digest.

For judgement on subjective items/statements, in this forum, there are two simple phrases - 'in my opinion', and, 'let us agree to disagree'. As long as the sparring members say what they want to say pleasantly and leave it at that, it makes sense. When the members start hurling abuses at each other and start questioning the other's knowledge, contribution, morality and a host of other factors, the exchange crosses the boundary of decency.

At that level, I think the moderator is justified in taking a unilateral decision for the good of the forum.

Cheers

 

[keith_correa]

+1 to Venkat on that! That was really good. Really. That it does not change my opinion is besides the point. I agree on a defined set of rules. I for one would love to see them. And the endless posts on disputing the right/wrong of those rules.

I feel that our "Indianness" is coming to the forefront here [flame me if you will for that]. Respect! For your elders! Right or wrong they may be!

IMO, I just feel that this forum was formerly a like minded small group and I see more noobs coming in and asking trivial questions and coming in all guns blazing - we resent that, feel we are above them and hence want regulation. Again, IMO, that is so typical!

If I don't like a thread or post for whatever reason - I move on to the next. That's the way it should be and we are in control of that. So why regulate? The control that we have is regulation enough.

BTW, my respect for all of you still remains intact - inspite of my seemingly harsh words.

 

[esanthosh]

If I say s**t is a usual word for me, somebody would consider a** as a usual word, and some would consider f*** a usual word. We got to draw a line somewhere or get ready for a disaster!

All are words I never mind But a public forum is not the place I'd use them.

I'm very new to this forum. But I know the perils of being a mod. Been a mod in an investment related forum for over a year. When I was an ordinary member for over three years, I was always for unrestricted freedom of expression. But that was until I became a mod and had to deny postings to lot of "gems". Being a mod is such a thankless job. You have to weigh in several factors to the best of your ability and still will come up short on many people's expectations

Instead of looking from a more personal point of view, as a mod, you tend to observe the forum as a whole. As every post was moderated, except for a few who were allowed to post directly, my whole perception changed. I was more worried about the direction of the forum, the flame wars that would spring up in terms of religion, politics, faith in God, strict non-flexible belief in a particular mode of investment etc., My first action was to frame a long set of rules, spelling out clearly what to do and what not to do. Well! I found out most people never care to read those

As bizarre put it, as a newbie, I'd judge what is "appropriate" in a forum by the stuff I read. If I come across "anything and everything" being allowed freely, I too will do the same. Instead, if all I find are just intelligent discussions, I will have to step up, learn and only then can I contribute.

It is always a question of maintaining the quality, while encouraging newbies to learn and step up. From what I've observed - rules or no rules, a few can always maintain the decorum of the forum and add knowledge. For those, repeated trivial discussions would make them lose their interest. A newbie, on the other hand - due to his lack of knowledge, would find the same threads interesting to participate and use it as an opportunity to blend in with the members. But, when several people stray off the course and that becomes the norm, the objective of the forum in many ways becomes diluted. It would not take too long for a forum to go from "great" to yet another piece of digital junk.

If majority of the members can maintain self discipline and do "self moderation", there won't be any trouble at all. Rules can be framed, but like our laws, interpretation and action would be very subjective (based on my experience with other mods' action in that forum).

 

[venkatcr]

+1 to Venkat on that! That was really good. Really. That it does not change my opinion is besides the point. I agree on a defined set of rules. I for one would love to see them. And the endless posts on disputing the right/wrong of those rules.

And that is exactly my point. See, with you Keith I will be confident of a intelligent exchange of ideas and concept without either of us crossing the boundary of decency. We may hurl 'technical' abuses at each other, but we will never get personal. And that is the beauty of such exchanges.

I am not sure what you mean, but the rules are available at the bottom of every page (Forum Rules - HiFiVision.com - India's Audio Video Hi-Fi Forum) and is visible to all.

I feel that our "Indianness" is coming to the forefront here [flame me if you will for that]. Respect! For your elders! Right or wrong they may be!

I have a 92 year old mother who always used to compare me to my eldest brother. To my mother, my brother was better in every way - more intelligent, more responsible, more handsome, and her 'only' true son. As an 'Indian', irrespective of what she did to me, I think it my duty to look after her as long as she is alive. Call it Karma, call it fate, call it what you may, that is the way we are made. And, I do hope, that does not change. I dread to think what our youngsters will do with the over abundant influence from western culture.

IMO, I just feel that this forum was formerly a like minded small group and I see more noobs coming in and asking trivial questions and coming in all guns blazing - we resent that, feel we are above them and hence want regulation. Again, IMO, that is so typical!

Unfortunately, being on the Net, the forum will grow, and I do hope it grows. In my mind what is needed is to make the forum attractive to every human being who is interested in any form of audio or video. There are so many new sub forums that we can open, so many topics that we can create. Let us all, as 'elders', work towards do that. I am not sure how many of you are aware, but I have heard that people like Nelson Pass pass by now and then and read through some threads in HFV.

I want to make this forum more powerful, whereby manufacturers consider it worthwhile to get some of their new products reviewed. In the 2 odd years I have been in the forum, I have seen all us being responsible for sale worth a few crores. There are many members who consider the advise we provide very important and critical to their selection and purchase decision. We have elevated so many people from HiFi culture to 'audiophile' culture. If we can open the eyes and ears of a potential user to the availability of varied equipment and how to identify what he/she needs, we have achieved a lot.

If I don't like a thread or post for whatever reason - I move on to the next. That's the way it should be and we are in control of that. So why regulate? The control that we have is regulation enough.

You have the decency to move away from a topic you don't like. You are mature enough to stop at a red light when it is red. What do we do with a person who does not have that self control? Such people have to be stopped and regulated. Otherwise the forum will become a free for all with abusive language and personal fights that will destroy the very basic essence of the forum - to enjoy audio and video and gain knowledge on the same. I yet remember a good member from Hyderabad whom we all liked but lost because of a really silly exchange.

BTW, my respect for all of you still remains intact - inspite of my seemingly harsh words.

And believe me, we all have deep respect for you and your thought processes.

Cheers

And this will be my last post on this subject, before I start boring people.

 

[sidvee]

I concur with venkatcr - there has to be some decorum and adherence to rules on a forum such as this, what with people having various opinions and thoughts - such that they are expressed in a meaningful and unhurtful manner without prejudice and deceit. A good debate should be just that - 'good' as defined by common decency for a fellow member - and of-course debates should be encouraged. Indeed it would be sad to loose even one good, contributing and knowledgeable member due to the reasons stated on this this thread. Forums like this are where I learnt more than I could have on my own and also experienced what others have through their setups. On the way I have developed my own opinions/preferences but I try to express them as such. Here's to hoping we have a more vibrant and inclusive forum.:cheers:
Sid

 

[keith_correa]

I have a 92 year old mother who always used to compare me to my eldest brother. To my mother, my brother was better in every way - more intelligent, more responsible, more handsome, and her 'only' true son. As an 'Indian', irrespective of what she did to me, I think it my duty to look after her as long as she is alive. Call it Karma, call it fate, call it what you may, that is the way we are made. And, I do hope, that does not change. I dread to think what our youngsters will do with the over abundant influence from western culture.

My respect for you just jumped a hundredfold because of this. To clarify - just because I commented on "Indianness" does not mean that I look down upon it. I'm as Indian as the next person here - with all the seemingly good/bad "values" that we have. Doesn't mean that I necessarily agree with these "values".
Our youngsters will do just fine. In fact I know they will do better. Our values will disappear [IMO, thank God for that - some of these have held us back for too long] and these "values" will evolve into the new set of values for the next generation. Value evolution.

You have the decency to move away from a topic you don't like. You are mature enough to stop at a red light when it is red. What do we do with a person who does not have that self control? Such people have to be stopped and regulated. Otherwise the forum will become a free for all with abusive language and personal fights that will destroy the very basic essence of the forum - to enjoy audio and video and gain knowledge on the same. I yet remember a good member from Hyderabad whom we all liked but lost because of a really silly exchange.

I remember a thread started by someone posting his impressions about his new amplifier and it has turned into something of a joke with people ridiculing him and making fun of him - not openly but snidely and I kept wondering what these people had against this guy and why they behaved the way they did. Now these guys are the seemingly "senior" and "knowledgeable" types but then I realized human nature and seniority and knowledge are mutually exclusive and once that sank in - I began looking at this post in a different light. People are different and that is what makes all of this so interesting.

Having said all of that - I'm going to walk [slink?] away from this.

 

[stevieboy]

I remember a thread started by someone posting his impressions about his new amplifier and it has turned into something of a joke

hi keith,

are you referring to the qinpu thread? if so do look at my last post. i for one looked VERY suspiciously at that thread cos it was from someone who does not post regularly and suddenly when the dealer was being slammed this guy pops up and posts a length post on the pro's of an amp bought from him. the whole way it was written was unlike any personal view point i have ever seen and hence challenged him. then i took the trouble to go through all the posts he has made and it seems like he's genuine so i made a conciliatory post and replied to his query on substitute tubes giving him a reference site. i hate schills on the forum! grrrrrrrr

regards

 

[captrajesh]

And no matter how much we say that we better ignore and move on, but in actuality do we really ignore? Whenever people have a chance, some tend to take a dig at others, without ignoring.

Taking a dig or pulling a leg?!!

Depends on one's perspective I guess.

I sum up by saying that I believe in freedom of expression as long as it remains harmless & within accepted norms of society that one is living in.

 

[suri]

I remember a thread started by someone posting his impressions about his new amplifier and it has turned into something of a joke with people ridiculing him and making fun of him - not openly but snidely and I kept wondering what these people had against this guy and why they behaved the way they did. Now these guys are the seemingly "senior" and "knowledgeable" types but then I realized human nature and seniority and knowledge are mutually exclusive and once that sank in - I began looking at this post in a different light. People are different and that is what makes all of this so interesting.

hi keith,

one's nature is a sum total of his/her previous experience, and the way a person reacts to a stimulus is his/her way - it is probably unique - but mob psychology is a different cup of tea altogether.

seniority in any field need not correlate with accretion of knowledge - and, as a byproduct - wisdom -

seniors like I can be perfect a@@eh%les at times!

why then, you ask, are members like amarbir and pras shafted?

if you look at stevieboy's signature - it reads

ser cultos para ser libre (spanish) - but very apt-

before a person becomes part of a group - that person is always put to the test by members of the group that the new person seeks admission to - happens everywhere - at school, at college, at a club - and so on.

now some people fit in so well that they are accepted by the majority in the group and they escape the test -

but others - they stick out like sore thumbs and are tested further until the group knows where they can placed and what their function could be -

with education comes knowledge - and with that,- freedom from unnecessary tests at the portals of a group-

but that will happen - and I hope it reflects more on the new entrants than the group that tests them -

probably upto the newcomers to prove their worth - as pras is doing!

regds
suri

 

[unleash_me]

one's nature is a sum total of his/her previous experience, and the way a person reacts to a stimulus is his/her way - it is probably unique - but mob psychology is a different cup of tea altogether.

seniority in any field need not correlate with accretion of knowledge - and, as a byproduct - wisdom -

Wow! Suri, you are full of surprises mate. Can't believe the above gems came from the same shenanigan who took the Jamo thread for a ride! With you all the way up there on the seniority vs knowledge scenario. Wonder why few are so sensitive to everything around; probably its the stimulus reaction thingy in action I guess.

Cheers.

 

[keith_correa]

i for one looked VERY suspiciously at that thread cos it was from someone who does not post regularly and suddenly when the dealer was being slammed this guy pops up and posts a length post on the pro's of an amp bought from him. the whole way it was written was unlike any personal view point i have ever seen and hence challenged him.

then i took the trouble to go through all the posts he has made and it seems like he's genuine

Absolutely last post on this thread - cross my heart.

Beneficio de la duda "Gentlemen"??

 

[srikarkav]

Hi Steve,

Please post the English equivalent of your signature for the less initiated like me too.That is the express purpose for which this thread was started by the mod.

cheers,
sri

 

[stevieboy]

Hi Steve,

Please post the English equivalent of your signature for the less initiated like me too.That is the express purpose for which this thread was started by the mod.

cheers,
sri

sri, i think the mod was talking about regular posts not signatures for language. moderating a signature would be too much eh?

it means 'to be cultured is to be free'

regards

edit: the point was also to start conversations, like the one you struck up with me! also to bring an individualistic flavour to the forum. see even keith is speaking ze lingo! hehe

 

[santhosh]

I frequent these three forums on a regular basis. Here they are in no particular order:

1) Team-bhp: Very tightly regulated, fantastic communication by moderators and an enviable knowledge bank. Personal attacks are dealt with very seriously. Several moderators. Knowledge is organised very well into sections. Some of the rules are: sms lingo not allowed in posts, not more than 3 smileys, any commercial activity is taken seriously (Even via PM), membership is free but difficult to get. Members are encouraged to search before creating a new thread.

2) Hifivision: Moderated as required - in someways a good thing, knowledgable and friendly members. Immense wealth of information. But try doing a search and you will find 10 threads asking the same questions. Makes me remember Asit's words "Advice is free, but time is not".

3) Techenclave: Moderated strictly for any bypassed commerical activity and bad language. Several Moderators. Knowledge is huge, cutting edge technology and well organised. Many members are knowledgeable and geeks but rude. Many members are college kids but know how to spend their pocket money wisely. Members Market and Dealer section rocks. Try selling something there and you will see low-balling, mud slinging and lash backs at its lowest and dirtiest levels.

BTW, Amarbir operates on Techenclave as well and is looked at as a Santa who brings gifts by the many kids on the forum. They don't care what and how he sells and are ready to go through the Lynx website or landmine rather (in sramanujam's words).The kids are more interested in his stuff as he sells his stuff for 5 bucks lesser than his competitors. Unfortunately, this model does not go too well here.

I feel at home in all the three forums and can't imagine life without these. I am here to make gain and share knowledge and have also made some fantastic friends. So a few language non compliances do not bother me as I have learnt to ignore them. I love HFV and I spend more time here than on the other two forums I have mentioned.

Some of the requests I have for Mods:
1) Enforce posting in the right sections
2) Discourage members from starting a new thread without searching
3) Even if new thread is created, mods to merge it with an apt existing thread

 

[hemantwaghe]

Some of the requests I have for Mods:
1) Enforce posting in the right sections
2) Discourage members from starting a new thread without searching
3) Even if new thread is created, mods to merge it with an apt existing thread

EXCELLENT SUGGESTIONS ..also request for better search algorithm and more heads ....

 

[stevieboy]

Hi Steve,

Please post the English equivalent of your signature for the less initiated like me too.That is the express purpose for which this thread was started by the mod.

cheers,
sri

whoops sri,

checked the first post by madbullram signatures are included in the english only.

mod isnt a signature supposed to be personal? why moderate this? posts i can understand cos of comprehension. a signature is not essential reading only if someone is interested in another's signature the person comments or asks the meaning. i've seen so many comments on signatures and i myself found vinod david's picture signature a good idea and the last pic intriguing cos i couldnt make it out and hence asked him to clarify. cos once this area gets moderated then next will come font then font size then font colour....

a request, please let this area be!

regards

 

[svenkateshsmart]

I am here to make gain and share knowledge and have also made some fantastic friends. I love HFV and I spend more time here than on the other two forums I have mentioned.

Some of the requests I have for Mods:
1) Enforce posting in the right sections
2) Discourage members from starting a new thread without searching
3) Even if new thread is created, mods to merge it with an apt existing thread

Well said, Santhosh. Yes, I too have the same request for the mods. One can see several threads on topics like Denon 1910, Yamaha 663, 863, etc., and the threads contain same queries. I am convinced that it is how life goes here! I think it is high time we avoided redundancy, because good threads are getting buried. I recently had a problem posting in a thread which is more than a year old!

Also, regarding language, I think Venkatcr has rightly registered his opinions very well. Rules must be rules and that is for everyone! Another excellent post by Venkatcr.

Also, as long as we are forum members, there is no discrimination however with regard to any aspects, but i see lot of sophisticated, well-qualified professionals here, besides most of them being an audiophile. At least for that sake, I feel I am obliged to maintain good decorum and decent language.

Cheers!

Cheers!

 

[malvai]

I personally feel that apart from the redundancy issues, the forum is running quite well.

If we start policing the forum too much, it'll lose its nice, homey feel. I find that most people here are decent. If anyone does step out of line, he/she is gently nudged back into place. It is very rare that someone has had to be rapped on the knuckles too hard.... very rare indeed.

But, that's just the way I feel about it and could be completely wrong.

 

[suri]

If we start policing the forum too much, it'll lose its nice, homey feel

apart from that- malvai,

the forum stands to lose valuable members - the best of the lot -

why?

simply because the non-conformists, the independent thinkers, the people with original ideas - these are usually people who want to be part of a vibrant democracy and not pigs on an animal farm.

i think we have lost a good member that way - that need not have been.

good forums are self leveling and i must say that this forum has very reasonable and liberally democratic moderators