Is LG a crappy company ?

[god2007]

* Btw I don't get how you say that frame rate is doubled for the de-interlacing method you mentioned. Shouldn't it be halved from the signal rate, to wait for the next alternate interlaced frame? For eg if 1080i is at 60fps it can be de-interlaced to form 1080p at 30fps.

Btw, here is a somewhat technical article that explains various algorithms used in upscaling/downscaling 1080p and 1080i signal on 720p display: Rescaling 1080i to 720p

So, some information can be lost in scaling 1080i to 720p, so it is possible that 1080i signal may be displayed better on 1080p display. But again, it depends on the input signal rate in frames per second as well as the algorithm used by the TV to de-interlace.

Here is another nice article: High Definition Blog

 

[god2007]

* Btw I don't get how you say that frame rate is doubled for the de-interlacing method you mentioned. Shouldn't it be halved from the signal rate, to wait for the next alternate interlaced frame? For eg if 1080i is at 60fps it can be de-interlaced to form 1080p at 30fps.

Btw, here is a somewhat technical article that explains various algorithms used in upscaling/downscaling 1080p and 1080i signal on 720p display: Rescaling 1080i to 720p

So, some information can be lost in scaling 1080i to 720p, so it is possible that 1080i signal may be displayed better on 1080p display. But again, it depends on the input signal rate in frames per second as well as the algorithm used by the TV to de-interlace.

Here is another nice article: High Definition Blog

I am unable to find the source of my information now. The first quoted article is not relevant as it talks about rescaling1080i to 720p.

The second quoted article says that there are different algorithms for deinterlacing some of which are trying to reconstruct the the picture without any loss. That is what I am talking about. If I found the source again, I will post it.

What we are talking about is 1080i video is not actually had 540 lines but it do had 1080 lines. I have recorded the signals in my HDTV receiver on a USB driver and has taken a snap shot in computer using VLC player. Stills of "Angel channel" a Tamil HD channel and "asianet news " a malayalam SD channels are attached. You can see that the former is of 1920x1080 size and the later is 768x576 size. (PAL SD broadcast is 576i) ( the pics are compressed hugely using irfanview to reduce size. Original png files are of 2.8MB and 550KB)

As the forum does not seems to allow large files I changed the uploaded images. Now the images show the property window to get the file information.

The upload does not seems working poperly. I will upload the images as separate posts.
( We are not making arguments here but only furthering our knowledge. Mistakes and errors can be pointed out at any time and any body)

 

[god2007]

Here are the images. First one is HDTV 1080i and the other is SD TV576i

 

[echo77]

( We are not making arguments here but only furthering our knowledge. Mistakes and errors can be pointed out at any time and any body)

Yes, definitely. This conversation is very helpful in our attempts at understanding how the formats work.

What we are talking about is 1080i video is not actually had 540 lines but it do had 1080 lines. I have recorded the signals in my HDTV receiver on a USB driver and has taken a snap shot in computer using VLC player. Stills of "Angel channel" a Tamil HD channel and "asianet news " a malayalam SD channels are attached. You can see that the former is of 1920x1080 size and the later is 768x576 size. (PAL SD broadcast is 576i) ( the pics are compressed hugely using irfanview to reduce size. Original png files are of 2.8MB and 550KB)

Is this directly from the signal or from the output of HDTV receiver? Does the HDTV receiver de-interlace or upscale the signal?

 

[god2007]

Is this directly from the signal or from the output of HDTV receiver? Does the HDTV receiver de-interlace or upscale the signal?

I think it is from the signal directly. It has can record to USB directly. Ouput of the receiver is set at 1080i. But as you can see the size of the SD video is only 768x576. Hence I think there is no deinterlacing and upscaling is done while recording. The video file size of HD and SD channels also substantially different.

 

[deba]

LG and SAMSUNG are both crappy companies copying and distorting other Companies' Innovation. Somehow I refrain myself from purchasing their product.

 

[allajunaki]

That is what most of the Plasma Manufacturers wants you to believe.
600Hz shown on plasmas are 600Hz Subfield driving. This boils down to how plasmas process picture. And it has something to do with how panels control indvidual cell brightness and hence overall picture saturation, contrast and brightness. So the 600Hz you seen in plasmas are not directly comparable to 60/120/240 hz you see on LCD.
Also, if you want features similar to 120/240 Hz LCD, look for Plamas with "Motion Smoother" or Intelligent Frame Creation as Panasonic Calls it.

But be warned though, this effectively ruins film experience. I keep these settings off, as it make the pictures too artificial.

Plasma are generally fast and smooth with respect to video. (Sort of like Scotch ).

If do want to know response time, its typically 0.001ms on Plasma (High end low end, any end ). Best of the best LCD have 2-4ms response (Cheaper models go as high as 8-12 ms).

Plasmas are good at it as they are capable of 600 screen refreshes per second, while the videos are mostly 24 frames per second. This the reason behind the advice to look for higher refresh rates while buying LCD / LED. Typical LCD /LED refresh rates are 60/120 refresh per second only.

 

[god2007]

Thank you alljunaki for correcting me.

I am still confused after searching this topic in the net. However my claim that plasmas refresh the screen 600 times per sec found to be wrong. Those who are interested in this, please search the net and try to understand themselves.

These two links I found usefull.
screen refresh rates - About.com : Home Theater

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1356682

Other good links may also be posted.

That is what most of the Plasma Manufacturers wants you to believe.
600Hz shown on plasmas are 600Hz Subfield driving. This boils down to how plasmas process picture. And it has something to do with how panels control indvidual cell brightness and hence overall picture saturation, contrast and brightness. So the 600Hz you seen in plasmas are not directly comparable to 60/120/240 hz you see on LCD.
Also, if you want features similar to 120/240 Hz LCD, look for Plamas with "Motion Smoother" or Intelligent Frame Creation as Panasonic Calls it.

But be warned though, this effectively ruins film experience. I keep these settings off, as it make the pictures too artificial.

Plasma are generally fast and smooth with respect to video. (Sort of like Scotch ).

If do want to know response time, its typically 0.001ms on Plasma (High end low end, any end ). Best of the best LCD have 2-4ms response (Cheaper models go as high as 8-12 ms).

 

[echo77]

This is pretty interesting on refresh rates:

Refresh rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When the first televisions were developed in the 1920s and 1930s, the limitations of vacuum-tube electronics made it difficult to run them at anything other than a multiple of the AC line frequency used to power the set.[citation needed] Thus producers had little choice but to run sets at 60 Hz in America, and 50 Hz in Europe. These rates formed the basis for the NTSC (60 Hz) and PAL & SECAM (50 Hz) sets used today. This accident of chance gave European sets higher resolution, in exchange for lower frame-rates. Compare NTSC (704x480 NTSC at 30i) and PAL/SECAM (704x576 at 25i). However, the lower refresh rate of PAL/SECAM introduces more flicker, so sets that use digital technology to double the refresh rate to 100 Hz are now very popular.

Another difference between 50 Hz and 60 Hz standards is the way motion pictures (film sources as opposed to video camera sources) are transferred or presented. 35 mm film is typically shot at 24 frame/s. For PAL 50 Hz this allows film sources to be easily transferred by accelerating the film by 4%. The resulting picture is therefore smooth, however, there is a small shift in the pitch of the audio. NTSC sets display both 24 frame/s and 25 frame/s material without any speed shifting by using a technique called 3:2 pulldown, but at the expense of introducing unsmooth playback in the form of telecine judder.

Unlike computer monitors, and some DVDs, analog television systems use interlace, which decreases the apparent flicker by painting first the odd lines and then the even lines (these are known as fields). This doubles the refresh rate, compared to a progressive scan image at the same frame rate. This works perfectly for video cameras, where each field results from a separate exposure - the effective frame rate doubles, there are now 50 rather than 25 exposures per second. The dynamics of a CRT are ideally suited to this approach, fast scenes will benefit from the 50 Hz refresh, the earlier field will have largely decayed away when the new field is written, and static images will benefit from improved resolution as both fields will be integrated by the eye. Modern CRT-based televisions may be made flicker-free in the form of 100 Hz technology.

Many high-end LCD televisions now have a 120 or 240 Hz (current and former NTSC countries) or 100 or 200 Hz (PAL/SECAM countries) refresh rate. The rate of 120 was chosen as the least common multiple of 24 frame/s (cinema) and 30 frame/s (NTSC TV), and allows for less distortion when movies are viewed due to the elimination of telecine (3:2 pulldown). For PAL at 25 frame/s, 100 or 200 Hz is used as a fractional compromise of the least common multiple of 600 (24 x 25). These higher refresh rates are most effective from a 24p-source video output (e.g. Blu-ray Disc), and/or scenes of fast motion.

 

[hemantwaghe]

For the past few weeks for a plasma TV. My questions were answered by the good members of the forum. I have almost finalised in favour of panasonic P42U30D, then I came to notice that there are two low cost 3D plasma TVs costing Rs. 40K. They are samsung 43D490 and LG PW450 42 inch. I had a demo of the samsung at two shops in Kochi and found ok but have no glass with it and of 1024x768 resolution.

I had done a wide search for a demo of the LG PW450 model. I was told that it is a 2011 model and is a very good set. the reviews in the net by foreign viewers also are found good. There are half a dozen LG Shoppes and dozens of dealers in and around Kochi. But the model is not in demo at any of them. At one LG Shoppe at Ravipuram, I was told that they have the item in stock but LG have specifically directed that the model should not be put on display. At all places I was pushed towards the LED 3Ds saying that plasmas are old thing and LED is the in thing. I told them that I am after a plasma and 3D is only a bonus and hence not interested in LCD / LED. After hearing this the sales men flee from me. I have to wander around the shop and leave.

Therefore I finally called the LG office at Palarivattom directly and asked where I can have a demo of this model. The lady who attended the phone after some consultation and 3-4 calls later informed that the model is on display at G MART at Edappally. I went there and asked for a demo. They repeated the old story. They said that the model is in display at BISMI, Kaloor. Although I went there earlier and not found the model, I again went there to confirm. They repeated the story.


My question is, IS LG A CRAPPY COMPANY WHO NOT EVEN DARED TO DISPLAY A MODEL THEY CLAIMED TO BE A GOOD ONE AND FIRST 3D CLAIMED TO BE THX CERTIFIED ?


It is too bad and shameful for LG and bad for THX as well having certified it ?


I do know that we are not willing to purchase display pieces and hence the company's reluctance to widely display the model. But they should have it displayed at least in one shoppe and can/ may direct the prospective customers seeking demo to that shop.

Or if the model has problems, they should be frank to admit and tell the customers that "the model have some problems and is withdrawn from the market." We have no objections. Even Toyotas and Hondas have problems and withdrawing models.

Most importantly this is the onam festival season in Kerala and it is estimated that almost half of the annual sales are done the two weeks period. All companies, popular and less popular ones, are doing there best to maximise there sale. And buyers are blindly buying whatever the sales men are pushing to them. I cannot understand the logic behind the attitude of LG in such a time.

I thought my experience to be posted here so that other members of this forum and other prospective LG buyers be aware of this.

So certain SKUs non availability in your geographical area makes the company crappy?
So what was the responce fromSony about plasma?
And Samsung - I mean he offered your favorite model free and then performed poll dance in front of you?

 

[god2007]

So certain SKUs non availability in your geographical area makes the company crappy?

It is available and in stock

So what was the responce fromSony about plasma?
And Samsung - I mean he offered your favorite model free and then performed poll dance in front of you?

Samsung people were very polite in displaying their model. I donot know sony. Sony was never in my list. (even if they had plasma).

I am not after unavailable models and never ask them for it free. It is LG that claimed the model is THX award winning and is good. It its dealers and exclussive shops who claimed that they have stock and will supply the item on the spot if I make the payment. It is these people, not me, who claimed that the model is better than samsung and panasonic.

It is at one of the exclussive shop that I was told that the company specifically directed not to place the item in display.

If the product is so good why they put it in display even at a single shop in Kochi during this festival season, when nearly half the annual sales took place.

If they say, the item is not in stock, or not released in Kerala, I have no problem and happily gone for one of the other available models.

I will not buy an item solely based on the claims of the manufacturer. Those who are making tall claims has the responsibility to prove that.
Otherwise I will call them CRAPPY.

 

[allajunaki]

Look at this in another way, if you do buy this TV, rest assured that you will NEVER get a display unit hyeah:
People (including me) go to great lengths to ensure that we dont get display units

It is available and in stock



Samsung people were very polite in displaying their model. I donot know sony. Sony was never in my list. (even if they had plasma).

I am not after unavailable models and never ask them for it free. It is LG that claimed the model is THX award winning and is good. It its dealers and exclussive shops who claimed that they have stock and will supply the item on the spot if I make the payment. It is these people, not me, who claimed that the model is better than samsung and panasonic.

It is at one of the exclussive shop that I was told that the company specifically directed not to place the item in display.

If the product is so good why they put it in display even at a single shop in Kochi during this festival season, when nearly half the annual sales took place.

If they say, the item is not in stock, or not released in Kerala, I have no problem and happily gone for one of the other available models.

I will not buy an item solely based on the claims of the manufacturer. Those who are making tall claims has the responsibility to prove that.
Otherwise I will call them CRAPPY.

 

[god2007]

Look at this in another way, if you do buy this TV, rest assured that you will NEVER get a display unit hyeah:
People (including me) go to great lengths to ensure that we dont get display units

You are right. I am also not to buy a display piece. But how can we buy a new set without seeing it in action or have good reviews. Only very few reviews are there on this set. They are positive. That is why I tried to have a demo of this despite LG plasmas generally not recommended.

 

[allajunaki]

Let me tell you something else about demoing.
No matter what people tell you, you CANNOT audition a tv in a showroom.
The lighting is way off, and too bright. The content they play you have not control over and most of them are not even tuned (Almost always set to "Dynamic"). So its very hard to gauage the television based on day to day usage.
This is why people end up with LCD/LED-LCD tvs. What it can give you is a general feel of menus and good feel of tv.

If you really want to Audition, do it in a controlled room, modelled after a home (yes, they do exist).
Personally I was awed by a panasonic V20 model in one such room (Onkyo Wonderland, MG Road, bengaluru. Sadly they dont keep that unit there anymore).

My friend, if you can find a reliable review (AVForum uk, or HDTVTest uk then trust them. They are fairly accurate).

Auditioning a Plasma on a video wall of a generic store is equivalent of judging a classical dancer in a hip hop competition.

Im not discouraging your quest to find the tv, just telling you that what you are weighing your decision on is on aspect that will most definitely misguide you, unless you know exactly what you are looking for ( same way as evaluating a classical dancers skill in classical dancing, in the middle of his/her hiphop dance).

You are right. I am also not to buy a display piece. But how can we buy a new set without seeing it in action or have good reviews. Only very few reviews are there on this set. They are positive. That is why I tried to have a demo of this despite LG plasmas generally not recommended.

 

[marsilians]

Its too harsh to judge if a company is crappy or not based on your experience. While I do agree that buying experience will be much better if one has a chance to demo, it may not be possible under many situations. For instance, the product stock, space, profit margins, etc.

@god2007, in your case you went with the intention of demoing a particular LG model and it so happens to be hard to demo. This does not make the company crappy.

The constant running around and misinformation they provided to you is not acceptable and speaks to very poor customer service on their part. Even a committed LG product fan would be put off by that and might have looked for alternate options. This again is not enough to make the company crappy. Their customer service management need an education at the least!

 

[vinay]

I too find LG a crappy company based on my experience, if someone finds it a good company then be it, great.

I call this company not only crappy but mother of cheaters, they delivered me a used product not once or twice, but thrice, finally they gave a new piece.

In my view, the point is if one has had a bad experience with some company or a individual, then words more to crappy also should be considered at liberty.

V.

 

[samirk]

I definitely think so

 

[wlg]

LG and SAMSUNG are both crappy companies copying and distorting other Companies' Innovation. Somehow I refrain myself from purchasing their product.

Hi
I TOTALLY DISAGREE
I have an LG Plasma almost 3 yrs old & Samsung LCD 4 mths both have worked without any problem, LG & Samsung have excellent service in Mumbai.

 

[vinay]

Indeed if you have had a good experience with LG, you are bound to say that it is a good company and that is the way it should be, congratulations.

Similarly if one finds LG a crappy company then there should be no reservations to call it a crappy company, in-fact should use more harder words if the need be.

V.

 

[wlg]

indeed if you have had a good experience with lg, you are bound to say that it is a good company and that is the way it should be, congratulations.

Similarly if one finds lg a crappy company then there should be no reservations to call it a crappy company, in-fact should use more harder words if the need be.

V.

i totally agree