Is price indicative of quality of gear?

[eastofthesun]

Thanks for poking a hole in that example. It gives another opportunity to clarify. That chap came looking for a CD player at a certain price in mind. The dealer could have turned him away saying "Boss, your price is too low and we don't sell anything that cheap". The dealer instead chose to invest around three hours demonstrating the audio equipment and technicalities of the CD players and probably gave an experience of other premium speakers/amps (talk about upselling).

The dealer never got to hear from him. He didn't change his mind and come back to buy a home theatre. His positive experience was shared to his friend/senior. And due to that warm welcome and experience the dealer got a cheque a project worth hundred times over that budget of CD player. Why? because he was treated the same way as he treat big-budget clients. As Maya Angelou says, people never forget the way you treat them. So goes the story. Now, yes it would be more interesting if he came back and bought an expensive CD player. I could have tweaked some facts in the story to make a point, but no. I wish that folks understand the narrative and the point being made.

It is not necessary one has a fixed budget it mind. We don't have to. Even if we do, it is not set in stone. I would say, boss let me understand your offerings and what makes them so valuable, instead of cutting me out. If I find them so alluring, I'll slog six times over to be able to afford that. An audiophile's journey starts somewhere at a basic level and it goes up based on their preferences. Business folks know that a sales cycle is long and winded road. A prospective customer goes through various stages of interest; and that is non-linear. Let them take their time.

Firstly why are we talking about could have would have scenarios ? Secondly i really do not understand this small budget and big budget client bit , cos finally at the end of the day, big or small a client is a client ... and i'm sure the salesperson would not have a personal axe to grind to treat someone badly . He must be making an honest attempt to show what best is available in an indicated price range , cos at the end of the day even he would like to make the sale . I would think one would have a ballpark figure in mind when one sets out, at least i always do . But then again maybe my journey is too nascent and i haven't reached that point like some to have a no holds barred budget.

P.S: In my limited journey of audio , the welcomes have always been warm and the people concerned have always given time to showcase what they have in my budget or marginally more. They also proudly showcase their flagship setups too if i elicit interest in listening to them. So honestly it doesn't hurt to ask

 

[siddharthdas]

“What is your budget?” is a question I’ve got from couple of dealers. My answer would actually be “It is none of your business” but I would blurt out some number anyway. It is a bit annoying and doesn’t really matter for me. Probably, the dealer would actually want to ask “What is your net worth?”, “Are you serious enough to spend this amount on it?” Or “do you really have deep pockets for me to fleece?”

For folks who have a strict limit, the constraint can help to narrow down. For those who have monies to spend on, the search can get even more confusing. And, just because one has the cash doesn’t mean they would want to spend their bank balance on the gear. There could be other vain pursuits and vices to spill on.

Subtly veiled inside this budget query is the notion that high value products have higher quality. And this could smell of snobbery.

“In this budget this is the best you can get”.
"As you go higher, there is diminishing returns". "Double the price doesn't mean 100x the quality".
"The best of these product category is in the * budget range"

Okay, I get it. Higher value products might have expensive components and are carefully handcrafted. Having said that, I’m not sure audio products justify the price beyond a range. The cost to manufacture might actually be fraction of the price tag. I hear that dealers get a 40-60% markup! Add to that the customs and shipping of “luxury” products.

I can also understand that this is a niche market and I would support the manufacturer/founder for spending years or decades perfecting their products.

On the other hand, brands can set the price sky high to create an illusion of “high-end”, “luxury” category. With an aura of that superior taste, enough to induce placebo for people. “Hey this is ultra-high-end, and this is in a different level!”

Price is different from intrinsic value. This is subjective and discerning customers would really measure the gear for it is worth.

What do you think? Is price indicative of quality? Do expensive products mean superior quality?

A good place to start is perhaps cars - is price indicative of quality? Generally yes, but not so much as the brand premium you pay for reputation and for frills. And then there's that undeniable 25% general improvement of many thing for which you pay 100% more. Now for most part it goes the same way in audio gear too. Although there are some really large deviations from that norm. But broadly folks who use, more expensive components, better finish, lots of marketing, mostly charge you more. Now the problem with audio is subjectivity. Golden ears. You don't get that for most part in auto. That said, technology is catching up fast, and lots of great tech is going to relatively inexpensive stuff. Over quality of a lots of stuff is improving. At the same time everyone is listening to spotify. I admit this answer of mine isn't a very well written, but the point I guess I am trying to make, is when you go from $200 to $1000, you will typically get better finish and better drivers, and many a time better engineering. I cannot say that when you start getting to "astronomical." I doubt $500,000 buys you audio nirvana. The difference between manufacturing and sale price also goes up sharply for expensive stuff, when you consider what they have to pay for marketing, and what they lose in volumes. SO you get less for your money.

Although the engineering part, is catching up for budget components. With active speakers and DSP getting better and more popular, I think access to high quality equipment at lower prices can only improve.

 

[oyster]

Every finished product category has an entry price. 3L to 3cr cars, 10k to 10L TVs.....etc
It really doesn't matter what price within the segment you buy into if you do not have the eyes and ears to distinguish quality. The easier statement is pricey = better (For many pricey = different/brag). Brands count on this

 

[Kannan]

As one scales up within a model, a classic example is car, you may have some upgrades that will not have a Value-addition in terms of performance or safety and would be about looks and cosmetics.
Such upgrades would be a personal thing.

The same cannot be said as much about audio equipment. The prices between brands can vary widely and will be very hard to base it on any parameters and good equipment are available at crazily low to crazily high budgets.

For example, at one end you have a 25$ puck like Chromecast audio (now discontinued but with many clones around) which is pretty good when it comes to audio reproduction, has an inbuilt DAC, preamp, is wireless, has an in-built digital transport and can also serve as headphone amp for high impedance headphones, has a phenomenal WAF factor --- all for 25USD.
And at the other end, you have DACs costing thousands of dollars.

So it is a very very different game when it comes to audio, the choices are endless and so is the amount of information and misinformation.

 

[kratu]

Firstly why are we talking about could have would have scenarios ? Secondly i really do not understand this small budget and big budget client bit , cos finally at the end of the day, big or small a client is a client ... and i'm sure the salesperson would not have a personal axe to grind to treat someone badly . He must be making an honest attempt to show what best is available in an indicated price range , cos at the end of the day even he would like to make the sale . I would think one would have a ballpark figure in mind when one sets out, at least i always do . But then again maybe my journey is too nascent and i haven't reached that point like some to have a no holds barred budget.

P.S: In my limited journey of audio , the welcomes have always been warm and the people concerned have always given time to showcase what they have in my budget or marginally more. They also proudly showcase their flagship setups too if i elicit interest in listening to them. So honestly it doesn't hurt to ask

All I'm saying is that one doesn't have to have a clarity on budget to shop around. And the question of budget is not to be done to profile a customer. I certainly don't want to be pigeonholed into a set of boxes that a sales guy has fabricated. It is not would have scenarios but actual personal experiences.

Without knowing the budget you were presenting it is hard to say. If one drops in a $$$$$ figure, they are sure to get a red carpet treatment. Someone with a fraction of that should be allowed to experience any product they wish, regardless of whether they have a budget or not.

 

[kratu]

Put aside any preconceived notion of the reviewer or the click-bait title. Hear him out.

 

[eastofthesun]

All I'm saying is that one doesn't have to have a clarity on budget to shop around. And the question of budget is not to be done to profile a customer. I certainly don't want to be pigeonholed into a set of boxes that a sales guy has fabricated. It is not would have scenarios but actual personal experiences.

Without knowing the budget you were presenting it is hard to say. If one drops in a $$$$$ figure, they are sure to get a red carpet treatment. Someone with a fraction of that should be allowed to experience any product they wish, regardless of whether they have a budget or not.

I really fail to understand who is denying anyone the experience … firstly it’s wrong to assume that I had dropped a $$$$$ figure , I had said in my earlier post that it doesn’t hurt to ask and I’m sure no one would deny you the experience even if you were out window shopping. Finally I really don’t know if not having clarity on the budget helps either of the parties. I certainly wouldn’t be able to stretch myself 5 fold or tenfold on a whim. But then like I said in my earlier post I’m at a very nascent stage of exploration in audio wherein I don’t have the leeway of having a no holds barred budget like some.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

All I'm saying is that one doesn't have to have a clarity on budget to shop around. And the question of budget is not to be done to profile a customer. I certainly don't want to be pigeonholed into a set of boxes that a sales guy has fabricated. It is not would have scenarios but actual personal experiences.

Without knowing the budget you were presenting it is hard to say. If one drops in a $$$$$ figure, they are sure to get a red carpet treatment. Someone with a fraction of that should be allowed to experience any product they wish, regardless of whether they have a budget or not.

I understand your point. But we also have to keep the dealers perspective in mind. There are plenty of tyre kickers in this hobby, who would visit a dealership to idle away an afternoon just drooling over gear, with absolutely no intention of buying.

So I wouldn't find it rude if one asked me what budget I had in mind. Besides, if one is serious about buying, we will always do our home work about the possible contenders and approximate price points. And the dealer knows that we will always take comparative quotes where possible. So unless we are buying something boutique that only one dealer has a monopoly on, then the question of fleecing because I can afford more should not arise.

 

[k_vijay12]

My 2 cents...

There is something called Product placement / brand positioning. Pricing is a function of this. Pricing has nothing to do with costs always. If manufacturer wants mass volume sales... they take low margins and sell.

If they want exclusivity , according to target buyer profile, they build a brand.

A Maruti is not marketed as a millionaieres car neither a Maybach as a commoners car. So this is called Product positioning. Once we decide on the position.. we identify target user base and do profiling. And chalk out marketing plans.

Whether price determines quality is also dependent on positioning. Lot of factors actually. It's not something one definition fits all. If brand commands a value as reliable Product, they may charge premium. If the Product doesn't have proper support everywhere , then providing support is not easy either. For example compare Maruti with ford or VW... Maruti is perceived as high quality and easy to maintain... where as ford n vw are expensive. Actual reality is ... ford n vw r high quality products and they don't expect breakdowns as much as Maruti.. The challenge is their service network, parts availability, skilled technicians r fewer hence repairs r usually slow or expensive. Where as Maruti has relatively higher breakdowns, cheaper parts, wide service network, large skilled ppl.. so easy to fix image in consumer minds.

Similarly same with audio components. From a sales stand point ... most outlets which are multibrand .. try to cater certain segments of consumers... so to profile where this customer fits.... sales folks may ask their budget. And accordingly what all possible from their end.. they push it down the throat.

An outlet will sell - what they have ..not what they don't have. So sellers know very well if the potential Customer is going to fit any of their target bucket.

 

[kratu]

I really fail to understand who is denying anyone the experience … firstly it’s wrong to assume that I had dropped a $$$$$ figure , I had said in my earlier post that it doesn’t hurt to ask and I’m sure no one would deny you the experience even if you were out window shopping. Finally I really don’t know if not having clarity on the budget helps either of the parties. I certainly wouldn’t be able to stretch myself 5 fold or tenfold on a whim. But then like I said in my earlier post I’m at a very nascent stage of exploration in audio wherein I don’t have the leeway of having a no holds barred budget like some.

It is not be taken as an assumption about anyone's specific budget here. As I said, If there was someone who would dropped a higher figure, there would definitely be a preferential treatment. It doesn't have to right out denial but profiling/differential treatment. (I have also mentioned about personal experience). Again, I have no qualms about asking the question of budget there. As I customer, neither do I feel a need to have a clarity budget in mind, especially in the initial stages of exploration. We are probably not disagreeing here. All I'm asking for more is tolerance and inclusivity, regardless of any budget.

I'm sure, a prospective customer has done the research and knows an approximate price. (In this age of Internet, they would know as much as the sales guy, if not more.) And the dealers have to be mindful that they aren't just addressing a prospective customer but also others in their network. It is a small world. If they like it so much they would tell/bring others, perhaps more interested party.

I understand your point. But we also have to keep the dealers perspective in mind. There are plenty of tyre kickers in this hobby, who would visit a dealership to idle away an afternoon just drooling over gear, with absolutely no intention of buying.

So I wouldn't find it rude if one asked me what budget I had in mind. Besides, if one is serious about buying, we will always do our home work about the possible contenders and approximate price points. And the dealer knows that we will always take comparative quotes where possible. So unless we are buying something boutique that only one dealer has a monopoly on, then the question of fleecing because I can afford more should not arise.

Well, yes from a dealer's perspective it appears that a window shopper is there to inflate his/her electricity bill. Since I've not been on that side of the table I'm not sure if there are 'plenty of tyre kickers'. I'd probably not phrase them as such but invite them as protective customers and possible ambassadors for my small business. It has to be taken as investment rather than an expense. This is a niche market and it is small world. A good experience spreads in the network and so does the not-so-good one. Since the market size is small and specialised, I'm not sure if dealers have such a problem.

You also brought a good point about fleecing. I have had a discussion with someone who has an experience on both sides of the table (as a customer and distributor/reseller). It is safe to say that fleecing is not uncommon and some are taken advantage of. And yes, information also gets relayed in the offline network, just to warn friends about potential red flags.

 

[alladinkachirag]

Even from a dealer's standpoint we might need to respect those dealer who takes the pains to give audition (unheard in our country), or have the ability to provide their non-judgmental point of view when auditioning multiple gear. Mr. Palani in bangalore in such a gentleman, the business is known as Audio Planet. Please understand I am not trying to advertise, since I barely know the person only have couple of dealings with him. But I was super impressed.

 

[arj]

All I'm asking for more is tolerance and inclusivity, regardless of any budget.
..

I took just this statement out since this perhaps summarizes the intent of your Post.

Yes, this is something we should all expect ...unfortunately not very prevalent among any dealers and not just for audio or in India.
Eg folks in singapore take a look at your attire/watch/phone and decide if they want to "waste" their time on you.

 

[kratu]

I took just this statement out since this perhaps summarizes the intent of your Post.

Yes, this is something we should all expect ...unfortunately not very prevalent among any dealers and not just for audio or in India.
Eg folks in singapore take a look at your attire/watch/phone and decide if they want to "waste" their time on you.

Bang on! Thank you for understanding the intent and essence of what I was trying to communicate.