Lenco L70 - Help / Advice please

[anilva]

Recently bought a Lenco L70 in good and original condition. So I finally jumped on the Lenco bandwagon, while riding on few other bandwagons at the same time ;-)

Now as most of you would know that Lenco L70's tonearm is a pretty vintage but highly regarded design with fixed cartridge mounting in the headshell i.e the cartridge cannot be aligned but remains fixed in the headshell.

Need ideas and advice from knowledgeable members on what type of cartridge should I try on this tonearm (Vintage Shure M3D and SC35C are recommended).

The other option is to replace the tonearm and get a modern one. The spindle to tonearm base mounting distance on a Lenco L70 is 230mm. That makes EMT 929, Fidelity Research and few Denon tonearms as choices.

Of-course I am planning to redo the plinth to a solid one and do the necessary cleanup of bearing, motor etc.

Here is the picture. Will post better ones shortly. This picture was taken at the sellers place.

Cheers.

 

[sachu888]

Hi Anil,
L-70 tonearm is better than L-75.You can use any low compliance carts like Dl-103 etc.Joshua suggested me to turn top plate to 90 degree so that one can use another arm with this.He has suggested me this design http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=13111.0 I have got the PDF files for plinth from this person.I can mail you if you need.We are also working for same design waiting,just waiting for one more Lenco to arrive.

Regards,
Sachin

 

[arj]

Congratulations !! and welcome..may our tribe increase

my suggestion is to change the Arm as that is what i was adviced by folks...while it is supposedly ok with tweaks, others are far better

if you want a vintage go Decca (not easily available)..or Linn. both are drop in. Linn is a good choice as easily available else a Jelco.

Vinyl engine has a list

 

[sachu888]

Ortofon AS212,Jelco Sa-250 both are drop in.

Regards,
Sachin

 

[reubensm]

a dumb question - is the L70 platter lighter or heavier than the L75?

 

[sachu888]

a dumb question - is the L70 platter lighter or heavier than the L75?

Both are heavy platter Lenco(same weight)

Regards,
Sachin

 

[reubensm]

Both are heavy platter Lenco(same weight)

Regards,
Sachin

thank Sachin, an off-topic dumb question again, why is the L75 preferred over the L70 and the L78? Just curious. Personally I thought the L70 looks to be the pick of the pack.

 

[anilva]

Arjun/Sachin,

THanks for the inputs, but the tonearms that you are suggesting are not drop in replacements. I think you guys are looking at effective arm length instead of spindle to pivot distance. Both are different and the L70 has a spindle to pivot distance of 230mm (different from L75). Only the tonearms that I mentioned in original post have them.

Ofcourse the other option is what Sachin suggested, move the table 90 degrees and mount a new tonearm on the side.

Please keep the advice coming...thanks.

Cheers.

 

[anilva]

thank Sachin, an off-topic dumb question again, why is the L75 preferred over the L70 and the L78? Just curious. Personally I thought the L70 looks to be the pick of the pack.

I don't think that is the case. Lot of people do not want to mod the L70 too much but preserve in it's vintage condition, as it is lot more rare to obtain than the L75. Also as is being discussed above, the L70 tonearm is bit of a mess and is not easy to replace or improve, whereas L75's tonearm can easily be changed to host of options that are available. Therefore the popularity of L75.

Cheers.

 

[arj]

Arjun/Sachin,

THanks for the inputs, but the tonearms that you are suggesting are not drop in replacements. I think you guys are looking at effective arm length instead of spindle to pivot distance. Both are different and the L70 has a spindle to pivot distance of 230mm (different from L75). Only the tonearms that I mentioned in original post have them.

Ofcourse the other option is what Sachin suggested, move the table 90 degrees and mount a new tonearm on the side.

Please keep the advice coming...thanks.

Cheers.

Aah you are right ..my bad ! Since i have the L75..i kind of assumed the L70 is the same
The problem with putting the arm on the other side is the Motor. Since this is an AC motor and has a large magnetic field, keeping the Tonearm cable or the cartridge near it introduces a Hum


this is a good read More Lencos -

 

[arj]

Arjun/Sachin,

THanks for the inputs, but the tonearms that you are suggesting are not drop in replacements. I think you guys are looking at effective arm length instead of spindle to pivot distance. Both are different and the L70 has a spindle to pivot distance of 230mm (different from L75). Only the tonearms that I mentioned in original post have them.

Ofcourse the other option is what Sachin suggested, move the table 90 degrees and mount a new tonearm on the side.

Please keep the advice coming...thanks.

Cheers.

Aah you are right ..my bad ! Since i have the L75..i kind of assumed the L70 is the same
The problem with putting the arm on the other side is the Motor. Since this is an AC motor and has a large magnetic field, keeping the Tonearm cable or the cartridge near it introduces a Hum
one point i found working well is the point Midway on the side nearest o the motor..that keeps the cartridge still far enough from the motor


this is a good read More Lencos -

 

[sachu888]

Arjun/Sachin,

THanks for the inputs, but the tonearms that you are suggesting are not drop in replacements. I think you guys are looking at effective arm length instead of spindle to pivot distance. Both are different and the L70 has a spindle to pivot distance of 230mm (different from L75). Only the tonearms that I mentioned in original post have them.

Ofcourse the other option is what Sachin suggested, move the table 90 degrees and mount a new tonearm on the side.

Please keep the advice coming...thanks.

Cheers.

Oh I am sorry.I did not notice this.There are so many arm 230 mm Pivot to spindle,Pl see here | Tonearm Mounting Distance and Alignment Information | Vinyl Engine

Regards,
Sachin

 

[jls001]

Both are different and the L70 has a spindle to pivot distance of 230mm (different from L75).

L75 mounting distance (= spindle to pivot) is about 210 mm. I know it is wrong but I am happily using a tonearm whose mounting distance is 223 mm. It is off by 13 mm but it is still sounding quite good!

The most flexible layout for mounting any arm of one's choice is the one already suggested by Sachin.

An alternative is to retain only the bare minimum top plate - throwing away all unneeded and superfluous portions, while retaining the on/off switch and retaining the default orientation. Like this. I find this design most impressive. Plinth construction becomes complicated, though.

 

[anilva]

L75 mounting distance (= spindle to pivot) is about 210 mm. I know it is wrong but I am happily using a tonearm whose mounting distance is 223 mm. It is off by 13 mm but it is still sounding quite good!

Joshua,

Sounding quite good is not a measure of correct alignment, it is just one of them. With your alignment off by 13mm means the geometry is off and typical elliptical stylus will damage the record with higher side wall stresses. The more you listen, the more you damage.....

Cheers

 

[jls001]

Joshua,

Sounding quite good is not a measure of correct alignment, it is just one of them. With your alignment off by 13mm means the geometry is off and typical elliptical stylus will damage the record with higher side wall stresses. The more you listen, the more you damage.....

Cheers

The day I discovered that I am off by so much, I was shocked.

I plan to either drill a new mounting hole in the existing plinth, or may be make a completely new plinth. I just need to find the time and the energy.

 

[jls001]

Very good read about Lenco models and a quick and dirty restoration guide:
Advocacy for the Lenco

This too:
More Lencos -

 

[Gerry_the_Merry]

The day I discovered that I am off by so much, I was shocked.

I plan to either drill a new mounting hole in the existing plinth, or may be make a completely new plinth. I just need to find the time and the energy.

JLS, what exactly are you off in terms of? The L75 TT distance is immaterial unless you get an arm with exactly the same geometry as the original Lenco arm, which you are not using anyway.

If for your SME/OL etc. the correct distance is 223mm, then you cannot use the L75 top plate hole anyway. It has to be outside the top plate.

Is the prescribed distance for your OL 223mm? in that case you are already correct, and unless there are major plays in the headshell end, you should be fine and not misaligned at all.

 

[jls001]

JLS, what exactly are you off in terms of? The L75 TT distance is immaterial unless you get an arm with exactly the same geometry as the original Lenco arm, which you are not using anyway.

If for your SME/OL etc. the correct distance is 223mm, then you cannot use the L75 top plate hole anyway. It has to be outside the top plate.

Is the prescribed distance for your OL 223mm? in that case you are already correct, and unless there are major plays in the headshell end, you should be fine and not misaligned at all.

OK, to clarify:

1) if one uses the default tonearm hole of the L75, the mounting distance is about 210 mm. I measured this.

2) I am using the default tonearm hole for mounting Origin Live Silver Mark III. The Silver's mounting distance is 223 mm, same as most Rega arms. I did not bother to check these numbers (the 210 mm mounting distance of the L75 or the 223 mm mounting distance of the Silver) before I mounted the Silver. I was very happy even be able to mount the Silver tonearm on the arm hole The literature on the subject suggested Linn LVV or Decca International arms as straight drop ins. I did not intend to invest in another arm at that point in time, so I had to make do with what I had.

3) It was only recently that I gave a thought to "inconsequential" things like mounting distance and actually got down to measuring it for myself.

4) The Silver headshell uses slots for mounting the cartridge so there is some room for adjustment in the direction of the arm tube. So the actual error is (223 -210) = 13 mm, minus 5 to 6 mm. Which I admit is still a fair amount of error. I have not bothered to measure the actual overshoot in overhang as I can't do anything about it (outside of drilling a fresh mounting hole on the plinth).

Hope that clarifies.

Bottomline:
unless one wants to limit oneself to the known drop-in arms, it is best to align the top plate like this (please see picture on post # 3) and drill the correct arm hole.

To make life flexible, one can make a removable arm board. The arm board is large enough to be able to accommodate a 9 incher or a 12 incher. See picture below. It is not to scale, but only intended to convey the concept of a largish arm board. You can make one arm board for tonearm A, another for tonearm B, etc. It will be screwed down at the four corners and easily removable. The suggested arm board is rectangular. You can make it any other shape you want, including round.

If you look at the plinth cutout, one can altogether avoid cutting out the area to accommodate the default arm as default arm hole will no longer be used. A positive side effect is you retain more mass in the plinth.

PS: do you plan to start building your plinth in the near term or is it gonna be a long termer?

 

[tek]

I have the same TT (L-70). It's a real amazing TT. I wouldn't change the arm if I were you. Keep it stock. If anything, get it replinthed. That's something i've been meaning to do but keep putting off.

The original tonearm is really underrated for the TT. It sounds excecllent. I am using a Denon DL- 110 with great results. Also, make sure you don't get an Ortofon Cart as they have the screw holes on the top side, which will not work with the L70 headshell.

Finding a replacement headshell is very difficult. I searched for over a year till i found on on ebay.

Also, make sure you check online, but the wiring for the headhsell is different from normal headshells, so the colour coding is not what it is supposed to be. If you google it, you can find the correct colour coding for the cart.

 

[anilva]

I have the same TT (L-70). It's a real amazing TT. I wouldn't change the arm if I were you. Keep it stock. If anything, get it replinthed. That's something i've been meaning to do but keep putting off.

The original tonearm is really underrated for the TT. It sounds excecllent. I am using a Denon DL- 110 with great results. Also, make sure you don't get an Ortofon Cart as they have the screw holes on the top side, which will not work with the L70 headshell.

Finding a replacement headshell is very difficult. I searched for over a year till i found on on ebay.

Also, make sure you check online, but the wiring for the headhsell is different from normal headshells, so the colour coding is not what it is supposed to be. If you google it, you can find the correct colour coding for the cart.

Tek,

Thanks. Your advice is absolutely appropriate. I read similar suggestions on LH. The DL-110 may be a good fit, but the original recommendation for that tonearm is a Shure SC35c or a Shure M3D. These are vintage cartridges and are available at a hefty price particularly the M3D.

Cheers.