Lenco L70 - Help / Advice please

[kuruvilajacob]

I am sorry,but heavy plinth is very much needed for Lenco to perform at its potential.

Regards,
Sachin

Of course, heavy plinth does have it's part to play in heavy motor idler players but what I observed is that between L 75 and Garrard 301, L 75 can sound good even without a heavy plinth while Garrard certainly need one for better performance and this could be because of the bigger idler wheel and bigger motor of Garrard

 

[sann]

Yes, this is because Lenco's approach for platter and idler is different from Garrard, Lenco uses heavier platter (8lbs) and lighter idler wheel as opposed to Garrard' 6 lbs platter and heavier idler wheel.

 

[kuruvilajacob]

Yes, this is because Lenco's approach for platter and idler is different from Garrard, Lenco uses heavier platter (8lbs) and lighter idler wheel as opposed to Garrard' 6 lbs platter and heavier idler wheel.

You explained it well. This is the reason for me to post that Lenco can be played without heavy plinth while on Garrard 301, the rumble will be unbearable without heavy plinth

 

[anilva]

Anil,
The arm is quite similar to a AR XA arm. Does it have fixed head shell? A friend of mine has a Lenco L 69 with a very special tone arm. Lencos are really special TTs and they can be considered as classics no doubt. Due to it's vertical idler wheel and heavy platter, they perform very well even without a heavy plinth unlike say a Garrard 301. This is my observation

The arm is very heavy and the removable headshell is the heaviest I have seen so far. Sometimes you are scared to use this tonearm on your favourite records, but seems to have a great reputation. I plan to retain the tonearm for this unit.

Cheers.

 

[analogadikt]

You explained it well. This is the reason for me to post that Lenco can be played without heavy plinth while on Garrard 301, the rumble will be unbearable without heavy plinth

Garrard 301 or 401 can be very silent in a skeletal plinth provided the deck has been serviced correctly, with full stripdown of motor, idler wheel assembly and the spindle bearing. Mine is in a skeletal plinth and I have absolutely no rumble issue.

Regards

 

[arj]

You explained it well. This is the reason for me to post that Lenco can be played without heavy plinth while on Garrard 301, the rumble will be unbearable without heavy plinth

I personally don't have info or experience to comment but ll that I have read on these and understood points to the opposite ie garrards do well in skeletal as well and lencos do well with uber heavy plinths
Maybe because the basic mechanism of the garrards is pretty evolved while lenco is as basic as it gets !

 

[G401fan]

The whole Garrard rumble issue is overblown. The motor is mounted on six springs, and does not transmit vibration through its spindle, only unless there is major play in the motor bearings - something only found in overused and badly maintained (not oiled) motors. If the main bearing is also OK (no play), you have one of the finest TTs out there. The plinth may be lightweight, mass-loaded, skeletal, etc, as per your fancy, but the basic sound comes through. Tweakers of plinths. of course, have plenty of scope for their endeavours, but the jury is still out as far as the improvement in sound quality goes.

 

[kuruvilajacob]

The whole Garrard rumble issue is overblown. The motor is mounted on six springs, and does not transmit vibration through its spindle, only unless there is major play in the motor bearings - something only found in overused and badly maintained (not oiled) motors. If the main bearing is also OK (no play), you have one of the finest TTs out there. The plinth may be lightweight, mass-loaded, skeletal, etc, as per your fancy, but the basic sound comes through. Tweakers of plinths. of course, have plenty of scope for their endeavours, but the jury is still out as far as the improvement in sound quality goes.

My observation on the Garrard 301 rumble could have been due to the condition of the machine when I got it. It was not fully serviced at that time. Soon after I used it initially, it was stripped down and housed in heavy plinth. So my impression may be incorrect

 

[sachu888]

The main difference between Garrard 301/40 and Lenco is top plate,Cast iron in Garrard and pressed metal in Lenco.Due to better Top plate design Garrard can be built in skeletal plinth,but Lenco needs a heavy one with Top plate tightly coupled with plinth.

Regards,
Sachin

 

[Gerry_the_Merry]

The whole Garrard rumble issue is overblown. The motor is mounted on six springs, and does not transmit vibration through its spindle, only unless there is major play in the motor bearings - something only found in overused and badly maintained (not oiled) motors. If the main bearing is also OK (no play), you have one of the finest TTs out there. The plinth may be lightweight, mass-loaded, skeletal, etc, as per your fancy, but the basic sound comes through. Tweakers of plinths. of course, have plenty of scope for their endeavours, but the jury is still out as far as the improvement in sound quality goes.

Agree. Else Loricraft would not exist. They don't make super heavy plinth.

 

[anilva]

Played my Lenco L70 after all the clean up and bearing relube. Mounted a Stanton 500 Cartridge with Spherical stylus in the Lenco L70 arm tracking at 2.5 grams. Excellent sound and dynamics. There is a bit of tracking distortion due to arm/cartridge geometry mis-match.

Overall L70 is a good vintage turntable with vintage tonearm. But I don't think it can stack up with more refined tonearms with MC cartridges. Caught in a dilemma whether to keep it in original condition or change the tonearm to a modern one to bring up the performance levels close to my other turntables like the EMTs and SP10.

Cheers.

 

[jls001]

Go for new tonearm. Rega RB 250 or 251 highly recommended. Modified Regas even more recommended.

Why Rega? At about 12 gram effective mass, it is medium mass arm and will handle high compliance cartridges. It will also handle low compliance cartridges, though it may not be the best match. But a 5 to 6 gram headshell spacer will take up the effective mass to about 17-18 gm, and arm resonance will fall in the 8 to 12 Hz window. Of course one will need a bigger counter weight.

 

[anilva]

Go for new tonearm. Rega RB 250 or 251 highly recommended. Modified Regas even more recommended.

Why Rega? At about 12 gram effective mass, it is medium mass arm and will handle high compliance cartridges. It will also handle low compliance cartridges, though it may not be the best match. But a 5 to 6 gram headshell spacer will take up the effective mass to about 17-18 gm, and arm resonance will fall in the 8 to 12 Hz window. Of course one will need a bigger counter weight.

Why Rega? The tonearm geometry is not close to 230mm spindle to pivot distance. If one has to put new hole (or extend) to suit the new spindle pivot distance, might as well go for more accomplished performers like SME or a Jelco. Isn't it?

 

[jls001]

Why Rega? The tonearm geometry is not close to 230mm spindle to pivot distance. If one has to put new hole (or extend) to suit the new spindle pivot distance, might as well go for more accomplished performers like SME or a Jelco. Isn't it?

Oh, I wrongly assumed that you'll drill a fresh arm hole.

OK, your search has to meet two criteria - mounting distance, and whether it will drop into the arm hole.

SME probably has the oval arm hole. Current models like the M2s may be different. A Jelco 750 oil damped has a fine reputation and can be had new for less than $800 (IIRC).

PS: don't extend arm hole.

 

[Gerry_the_Merry]

Linn Akito is a good choice. On eBay it goes for GBP200 or less. It is a direct drop into L75, and perhaps L70 also. No need for another hole.

 

[sachu888]

Linn Akito is a good choice. On eBay it goes for GBP200 or less. It is a direct drop into L75, and perhaps L70 also. No need for another hole.

Its drop-in for L-75,but L70 has a different mounting distance.

Regards,
Sachin

 

[jls001]

L75 mounting distance: 210 mm
L70: 230 mm.

 

[kuruvilajacob]

Anil, have you thought of a separate arm pod? i have tried my arm pod on a very insignificant Garrard 6.400 idler and i was amazed with the result. If you make a good arm pod with provision to adjust the VTA and height, it can be a universal arm pod which can be used with any player and no need to drill holes and make a mess of your Lencos.

 

[arj]

Anil, have you thought of a separate arm pod? i have tried my arm pod on a very insignificant Garrard 6.400 idler and i was amazed with the result. If you make a good arm pod with provision to adjust the VTA and height, it can be a universal arm pod which can be used with any player and no need to drill holes and make a mess of your Lencos.

Only problem with this is you need to have some way of ensuring the Spindle to pivot remains constant ! my maid/kids could shift the base and....

 

[anilva]

Finally got to do some work on the L70. Opened up with L70 tonearm. Needs quite a bit of alignment as the horizontal ball bearings have been disturbed from their races. Also wanted to use this opportunity to completely clean, remove old grease and keep it ready for remounting.

Since the L70 arm is good to look at and play old records, I had bought a Denon tonearm with the mounting distance exactly similar to the L70 tonearm.

Also it just dropped into the existing L70 hole, as if it was designed for L70. Had to remove the tonearm cueing arm on the Denon in order to allow low mounting height required for the Lencos, due to sunk platter.

L70 table and Denon tonearm in combination with my Stanton 500 cartridge works quite like the top notch tables rubbing shoulders with EMTs and SP10. However like the bane of any idler TT, there is an element of residual low frequency rumble detectable on low passages. I hope to get rid for the layered plinth planned for this soon.

Here are some pictures.

Cheers