Lithium-based Online UPS -- any audio advantage(s) ?

[bornfi]

Hi

Did you plug the power amps in as well. Dont think they have the current draw for that kind of loads. But might just work for low consumption components like streamers, dacs and preamp etc I would think.

No, just the processor and after listening to the outcome, I did not have the courage to try. But also, my amp, Karan Acoustics KAS400, would probably require their biggest product but initial test result did not generate any excitement so, left it there.

I just want to caution the fellow folks here not spend money without first trying the product.

 

[prem]

I too had tried battery operated source. As bornfi mentioned sound gets very boring. I don’t know why though. I wouldn’t buy ecoflow without a home trial. In theory no emi/rf when using a battery pack sounds like a great idea but in reality it’s not as exciting as it sounds.

Maybe our ears are used to impure power sound

 

[prem]

On a separate note how how does a system powered by solar power sound?

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

On a separate note how how does a system powered by solar power sound?

will be too loud in summers I guess

The Audio Impact of Solar Panels and Battery Backup: Introduction, Installation & Initial Listen

Introduction It was a dark and stormy night. Not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse. Now that I’ve hooked you with these clichés, the real saga begins. The only sound to be heard was the soft patter of sleet and freezing rain covering every exterior surface with a translucent glaze. At 2am...

audiophilestyle.com

 

[rsjaurr]

Double conversion ups is
AC - DC - AC
It is connected to the mains and depending upon the smps converting the AC to DC,EMI / RFI noise from the mains could still get into the system. The battery power is tapped only when the mains power is not available.

In ecoflow, the battery is charged before use and it is then disconnected from the mains. So no EMI/RFI creeps in.

In battery mode, both will be similar.

Regards

You are right about AC - DC -AC double conversions in double conversion ups.

No offense, but it is incorrect that battery power is tapped only when mains power is unavailable. That happens in offline and line interactive ups, not in double conversion ups. That is why these double conversion ups are called online ups. If there are any offline types of double conversion ups, I am not aware of them. I am no expert here, just an enthusiast like Murugen was an enthusiast of CSK.

Please go through different types of ups here.

 

[kbhuvi]

You are right about AC - DC -AC double conversions in double conversion ups.

No offense, but it is incorrect that battery power is tapped only when mains power is unavailable. That happens in offline and line interactive ups, not in double conversion ups. That is why these double conversion ups are called online ups. If there are any offline types of double conversion ups, I am not aware of them. I am no expert here, just an enthusiast like Murugen was an enthusiast of CSK.

Please go through different types of ups here.

Yup
I could be wrong here. I thought all double conversion ups operated like this screenshot. The terminals of a battery are same for charging and drawing current. So this concept as shown in the SS made sense.

 

[Hari Iyer]

I too had tried battery operated source. As bornfi mentioned sound gets very boring. I don’t know why though. I wouldn’t buy ecoflow without a home trial. In theory no emi/rf when using a battery pack sounds like a great idea but in reality it’s not as exciting as it sounds.

Maybe our ears are used to impure power sound

I think the boring sound would be because of lack of harmonics content in the AC Line as it's a battery making it sound sterile and lifeless. Because of this very reason I am against using any RF/EMI filters in my amplifier so that the harmonics are not filtered in the AC Line.

 

[square_wave]

Double conversion ups is
AC - DC - AC
It is connected to the mains and depending upon the smps converting the AC to DC,EMI / RFI noise from the mains could still get into the system. The battery power is tapped only when the mains power is not available.

In ecoflow, the battery is charged before use and it is then disconnected from the mains. So no EMI/RFI creeps in.

In battery mode, both will be similar.

Regards

Thanks. I thought in a double conversion ups the output is always from the regenerated AC. Never from the mains.

 

[Analogous]

On a separate note how how does a system powered by solar power sound?

My set up in my hut near a forest (Fatman ITunes hybrid driving a AR2 vintage) sounds wonderful. All powered by solar PS.
But the walls are all made of coconut woven leaf and the floor is wood strips.

 

[kratu]

I too had tried battery operated source. As bornfi mentioned sound gets very boring. I don’t know why though. I wouldn’t buy ecoflow without a home trial. In theory no emi/rf when using a battery pack sounds like a great idea but in reality it’s not as exciting as it sounds.

Maybe our ears are used to impure power sound

My understanding is that, for transients and dynamics, amplifier would need to supply enough power to speakers. Having plenty of headroom would give it that immediacy. Those DC battery would not cut it. May be, high powered >5kWh solutions like Stromtank might work? I'm not sure.

 

[Miany]

Hello @essrand
Happy listening.

Since your whole system is low watt consumption, you could look into taking the whole system off grid.

Ecoflow India Official

ecoflowindia.in

Regards

Thanks for sharing this. I have contacted them via the toll free number given in their website.

Looks like they have some new higher models also coming out by March 2025.

But I dont think one can go completely off-grid using AC INPUT to Ecoflow Delta 2. While using AC input for charging, the output AC is really linked to the AC input; Else you have to disconnect the AC input (EPS mode) so that the output AC is created from the battery storage. Switching to battery power from AC input power takes more time than a typical online UPS i think. For Delta 2 model, they are claiming 30 milliseconds. So the best use-case I think would be to charge Delta 2 fully, disconnect from AC and use. Correct me if i am wrong...

 

[essrand]

For me the baseline is an online UPS, not AC mains -- In Mumbai that would not be the case, but in Goa it is.
I need an online UPS and this costs about the same and is better in all respects (for me).

I went to Mumbai and saw the ecoflow in action. It is not loud like Goalyeti or an online UPS was reputed to be and seems like a very mature product.

If plugged in it only provides surge-protection, if plugged out, you get pure sine wave output, so basically it is not a double conversion UPS.
Its pure sine wave output was tested by Nytimes and found to be very good.

I don't think people with SS amplification should get too excited about this product. My total system (8W SET amp) requirements are 200-300W peak, so the 1000 or even 500 watts model might work. If you run a 200W SS amp, don't even think about it.

I see this a replacement for an online UPS, if it gives me any other advantages, that would only be big plus.

I will be buying, if anyone else is willing to jump on the boat we can try a group buy. But prices are super reasonable no artificial audiophile tax so ... might just go for it.

Cheers!

 

[square_wave]

@essrand , with a solution like this, are you planning to charge the ecoflow while not listening to music and then listen to music fully on battery powered / reconverted ac?.. like the stormtank.

If you are planning to do that, the big thing you need to check is the quality of the re conversion and associated electronics at the output end. Most cheaper devices generate some noise there. That wont affect IT devices but may affect audio quality.

How is this solution different from a double conversion online ups if you were to increase the battary capacity ? I am sure many will allow for that. Apart from the fact you can keep the double conversion online ups always connected to mains..?

 

[Miany]

Bought Ecoflow Delta 2!!

I am using it for my front end only.. currently Streamer, DDC, DAC and Preamp are plugged in to Ecoflow through the Puritan Audio PSM 156.

Power amp and subs are being driven directly from the output of my online UPS.

Initial impressions are quite good... am really liking what am hearing...

My usage - Charge Ecoflow fully and then use the battery generated output only, by switching off the mains input to Ecoflow. The backup is pretty good.. I have used around 3 hours or so...As per the data shown in the Ecoflow app, it should run for another 15 hours; before requiring a charge.. Another plus is that the internal fans are not so noisy...

And yes, given the amount that we shell out for interconnects and all, this one is pretty reasonable....

 

[essrand]

Bought Ecoflow Delta 2!!

I am using it for my front end only.. currently Streamer, DDC, DAC and Preamp are plugged in to Ecoflow through the Puritan Audio PSM 156.

Power amp and subs are being driven directly from the output of my online UPS.

Initial impressions are quite good... am really liking what am hearing...

My usage - Charge Ecoflow fully and then use the battery generated output only, by switching off the mains input to Ecoflow. The backup is pretty good.. I have used around 3 hours or so...As per the data shown in the Ecoflow app, it should run for another 15 hours; before requiring a charge.. Another plus is that the internal fans are not so noisy...

And yes, given the amount that we shell out for interconnects and all, this one is pretty reasonable....

Thank you so much for being the "first" to get onboard and for reporting back to us. I am going to plunge in pretty soon, once my system is fully setup.

I was thinking of going for the smaller model, but perhaps the Delta 2 might be the way to go. TBD, will report back once I take the plunge.

 

[essrand]

@essrand , with a solution like this, are you planning to charge the ecoflow while not listening to music and then listen to music fully on battery powered / reconverted ac?.. like the stormtank.

Yes, that is the idea.

If you are planning to do that, the big thing you need to check is the quality of the re conversion and associated electronics at the output end. Most cheaper devices generate some noise there. That wont affect IT devices but may affect audio quality.

Nytimes testers seem to report a very good quality sine-wave, given that my baseline is Online UPS -- I am not worried, I think this will generate less noise than any online UPS. Also I will be running a passive power conditioner from the Ecoflow before connecting it to the rest of the system.

How is this solution different from a double conversion online ups if you were to increase the battary capacity ? I am sure many will allow for that. Apart from the fact you can keep the double conversion online ups always connected to mains..?

It is the same, but way better at almost same price. 1) Lithium -- lasts longer than those stupid lead-acid batteries 2) Better Sine wave 3) Complete isolation from the grid -- Basically a poor man's stromstank.

 

[square_wave]

Yes, that is the idea.

Nytimes testers seem to report a very good quality sine-wave, given that my baseline is Online UPS -- I am not worried, I think this will generate less noise than any online UPS. Also I will be running a passive power conditioner from the Ecoflow before connecting it to the rest of the system.

It is the same, but way better at almost same price. 1) Lithium -- lasts longer than those stupid lead-acid batteries 2) Better Sine wave 3) Complete isolation from the grid -- Basically a poor man's stromstank.

If the output is as good as reported, great choice!
Can you post a link to the passive power conditioner ?

Many people spend on the stromtank because of the quality of the output and subsequent effect on the audio quality. At cost of the convenience of a double conversion online ups or an audiophile version like the ps audio and others. If this does what the stromtank does, you have a winner

 

[Miany]

I was thinking of going for the smaller model, but perhaps the Delta 2 might be the way to go.

Yes. Its better to start with Delta 2 only...

 

[essrand]

Can you post a link to the passive power conditioner ?

Acoustic Revive RTP-4ultimate Power Conditioner and Power Reference Power Cable Review

If there were one tweak that an audiophile could use to educate non-audiophiles on why we labor so much for sound, power conditioning would be at the top of my list. Whereas cables & vibration control accessories are often subtle in their effect, power conditioning can be as obvious as a yawn in...

www.dagogo.com

 

[essrand]

Many people spend on the stromtank because of the quality of the output and subsequent effect on the audio quality. At cost of the convenience of a double conversion online ups or an audiophile version like the ps audio and others. If this does what the stromtank does, you have a winner

I have no illusions that this will match the Stromstank, as long as it matches or exceeds the output of an online UPS, I am okay with it