Mr. Nelson Pass on Amp break-in

[doors666]

I need to break my head over that one ...

Anyone volunteer to explain??

--G0bble

sure, i will volunteer to help you out
breakin - listen to new speakers for a few days and notice improvements in sound.
other thing - e.g. caps degrading over a period of time

 

[gobble]

sure, i will volunteer to help you out
breakin - listen to new speakers for a few days and notice improvements in sound.
other thing - e.g. caps degrading over a period of time

I thought caps improve over usage over a short duration (a few years) ... maybe 10 years later electrolytics might degrade...

--G0bble

 

[omishra]

I thought caps improve over usage over a short duration (a few years) ... maybe 10 years later electrolytics might degrade...

--G0bble

Yes, only electrolyte caps degrade. Polystyrene and metal stack improve. Ceramic disk cap change but unnoticeable.

 

[rajeshm]

Amplifiers do not improve over time. There is no break-in.

Good quality capacitors do not change outside of specified limits. So a 470nF 5% polyster capacitor will have it's capacitance between 493.5nF and 446.5nF when new and old. Designers design electronics with this variance taken into account. If that wasn't the case, two amplifiers from the product line will sound different. :clapping::clapping::clapping:

Bad quality capacitors may degrade including complete blow-out - this obviously doesn't cause any improvement in sound quality .

 

[omishra]

Bad quality capacitors may degrade including complete blow-out - this obviously doesn't cause any improvement in sound quality .

Then why Panasonic, Rubycon and other manufacturers provide Lifetime curves wrt ambient temp. in datasheet? Are they bad capacitor manufacturers?

 

[rajeshm]

Then why Panasonic, Rubycon and other manufacturers provide Lifetime curves wrt ambient temp. in datasheet? Are they bad capacitor manufacturers?

Manufacturers of good quality capacitors specify how much the value of a capacitor varies. Following factors could be present.

• Variance off the shelf
• Variance with temperature
• Variance with time
• Variance with voltage
• Variance with frequency

A good amplifier designer is expected to read data sheets and take into account any possible variance. I won't call a designer good if he does not read data sheets.

 

[Hiten]

copy pasting from another website.

Because of modern time saving production techniques, electrolytic capacitors aren't fully formed when placed into circuit - even the good expensive ones we use. It means that our high performing phono preamps will not deliver their great performance from out the box cold. It takes roughly 2 weeks for the foils to build-up an anodic film on their slit edges.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

If you do not attribute the quote, we do not know whether it is the words of an expert, a manufacturer, or just another one of "us users".

To those of us who have little knowledge about what happens in electrical components, this is a area of big confusion.

I read on some of the mythbusting sites to the effect that all that is needed of electronic components is that they be of the right value, and that they work and do not break down. Then, I see claims made, on commercial sites (and company names I "trust" too) to the effect that, sure, our mass produced products are superb, but if you want to pay the extra, we will custom build for you with even higher-quality components.

On the whole, I can understand that a manufacturer, for instance, might be only too happy for us not to judge a unit by its sound on day one. They might be sincere, it might be pure bs marketing, but I am sure that they know that ears and brain change a lot more readily than the sound does.

All things commercial need to be taken with a healthy dose of cynicism. The question is, how much?

 

[Hiten]

If you do not attribute the quote, we do not know whether it is the words of an expert, a manufacturer, or just another one of "us users".

Quote is by Graham Slee, an electronics engineer known for his designs of headphone amps and phono preamps, who also designed and setup FM radio stations for BBC in 70s.

 

[digitalv]

Caps do change their properties over time. But the change is too mild to affect any sound quality for lets say, up to 10-15 years. Good quality caps retain their properties within tolerances for even longer.

I've been working in the Electronics Design industry with many OEM's for more than a decade and haven't come across such "magic" called burning-in for solid-state audio amplifiers (or anything involving solid-state electronics) which will result in audio quality improvement over the first 100 or 500 hrs of operation.

Any decent designer worth his/her salt would take ageing effect of components into the design considerations. Even after the design, products are subjected to HALT (Highly Accelerated Life Test) which would bring out any such deficiencies and are compensated for before release to the market.

IMHO, this is just another Audio Urban Legend which indeed has some blind fan-following just like some people still believe in black magic!