Subbu68
Well-Known Member
In earlier post i wrote " They know you don't know the science behind it"..
My earthing is screwed
- Thread starter Love4sound
- Start date
Love4sound
Well-Known Member
I am not arguing against you. Just stating how it is marketed globally. I have spoken to various earthing professionals and they only support chemical earthing now. I needed a separate earthing just to make a point to EB.
Subbu68
Well-Known Member
It was not an argument with you Navin. Just wanted to make the FMs aware of the science behind it and not get fooled with such claims as those selling these products. It has applicability but not necessary everywhere.
Sad to know that pros are also dragged into this bandwagon of chemical earthing. Engineers should aim to provide cost effective solutions not costly ones and fill their pockets. Same for all professions I should say.
To say globally may be too much. Over here in the ME, I haven't come across people using this miracle product unnecessarily. I have been working as a consultant for the power utilities of Abu Dhabi since 2000. The dry conditions we have here you will encounter only in Rajasthan. Rajasthan perhaps has more rains than us, yet bentonite earthing is used sparingly.
Love4sound
Well-Known Member
May be not used every where but what I meant was generally chemical earthing is marketed as maintenance free earthing. Have seen countless articles and videos on earthing recently during my research. Before chemical earthing I used two 4 feet GI pipes only using local electricians. For 10 feet you will definitely need professional help and every professional I spoke with only supported chemical earthing.
Sir,
I am only trying to add to your post and to show the complex nature of these things.
Here in Australia, Earth resistance tests are not advocated for a Residential setting however a fault loop impedance test is required which measures the total fault loop impedance of the circuit starting from the circuit protection device all the way back to the main earth point in switch board. Minimum allowed earth rod sizes (1.2 m)and cable sizes(4 mm2) are still required to be followed.
With utilities, on the distribution side of things, the scene is totally different. The focus is more on earth potential rise, step and touch potentials etc.. Minimum earth readings are required to be maintained (high values like 30 ohms, 100 ohms etc), but the lowest earth reading obtained by means of more metal in the ground will never get a pass. The step and touch potentials etc are to be limited to required levels based on the location (say remote, urban etc..).How far these potentials extend is related to the horizontal /vertical dimensions of earthing/metal in the ground.
Can I say and I am sure you will agree that Earth resistance reading is just one of the aspects of the design and more metal in the ground resulting in a very good earth reading of say 1 ohms may not be a good thing in some cases. Other aspects being trip time of the protection device(directly related to the amount of metal in ground), step/touch potentials and the extend etc. The earthing rod size for an installation can be arrived upon only after considering the above said aspects.
The point here is, Earthing is one of the complex most areas in Electrical Engineering and authorities are switching and changing the rules as they go( at least here that is the case) and I am sure it still needs to evolve. And people should take this seriously, Installing Earth rods for equipment's, installing earth rods around the house, installing more earth rods etc... are not a good idea in my humble opinion before investigating and finding the source of the problem itself.
Subbu68
Well-Known Member
Hi
We are synchronised
Yes, Earthing is one of the most empirical and complex areas of EE. Every site is different and needs unique treatment. I had been in this "business" since 1990, yet has not understood everything. If you are interested there is a detailed Engineering Recommendation ER-04 we prepared for Abu Dhabi in www.do.gov.ae under Publications section. It took about 8 years to complete it. It has two parts inside for this 972 sq.km territory as two different geographical regions have entirely different soil conditions and weather!!!!
You are absolutely right in saying that find out the source of the problem first before investing in all exotic things hoping to solve the problem and instead that may get aggravated.
Thanks.But the link does not work for some reason.Hi
We are synchronised
View attachment 69342
Yes, Earthing is one of the most empirical and complex areas of EE. Every site is different and needs unique treatment. I had been in this "business" since 1990, yet has not understood everything. If you are interested there is a detailed Engineering Recommendation ER-04 we prepared for Abu Dhabi in www.do.gov.ae under Publications section. It took about 8 years to complete it. It has two parts inside for this 972 sq.km territory as two different geographical regions have entirely different soil conditions and weather!!!!
You are absolutely right in saying that find out the source of the problem first before investing in all exotic things hoping to solve the problem and instead that may get aggravated.
Subbu68
Well-Known Member
Sorry I missed a letter. It is www.doe.gov.ae
it is ER 08 for earthing not ER 04. 04 is Security of Supply Standards.
the website seems to be getting upgraded. The publications are perhaps getting reloaded.
The result could be fatal even resulting in death.
An example,
Our company was involved with a case where a lady died in the shower due to electric shock. Her house shared power supply from the nearby Quarry/Mine/Crushing plant (house owned by the quarry and hence they shared the same 11kV/415 V transformer).The earth fault in one of the motor supply cables raised the voltage around the metal works in the house. I am not getting into technical details. But the core reason was, the team leader in the Quarry( not a qualified/licensed Electrician) modified the quarry switchboard by removing the MEN(Neutral to Earth link).There many many more similar examples around the globe. A google search will reveal. Modifying an electrical /earthing infrastructure without proper background/qualification/licensing is not a good idea. Please call a professional to do such things.
This reminds me of a rampant practice of connecting equipments in India. This is not related to earthing. Every summer we hear of news that some building caught fire and people died. Almost all these fires are caused by Air Conditioner wiring. When an AC is to be installed and if there is no power point available nearby, an electrician will be called to install a new point where the AC can be connected. In almost all cases, the electrician will search for a nearby outlet, connect wires by twisting the copper strands. Post that he will apply few turns of insulation tape. After passage of few years, the copper oxidises, resulting on loose contact. When the AC is turned on, these joints get heated and catch fire.
If you open any power panel here in any building you will find the same practice of wires being joined by twisting and then covered by insulation tape. Most of the times one gets away because the current isn't too high.
kartechnology
Member
this is why new gen ac have no cables directly from the idu/odu..terminals present even for non-inverter ac in IDU instead of factory fitted cable from the IDU pcb.
electrician can use one single cable from the main distribution panel of house with mcb to the AC without any cuts or joints. better to install stabilizers outside the house, behind the distribution panel.
Sushant Sharma
Well-Known Member
I moved into my present house just over a year ago. I bought 10 mtrs of copper wire, copper plate and a sack of coal for earthing but it just never happened and these things just lay there for a year.
I saw posts by fellow members about the importance of earthing and this evening it was finally done. A few additional things like salt and thimbles etc were bought.
Prior to it and this morning I shoved the prongs of my multimeter into electrical sockets and noticed earthing reading of 25 volts which Google told me should be in the vicinity of 2 to 3 volts. I have also in the past felt slight shock upon touching the amp and preamp chassis.
After the earthing was done...
The bit of hum more prominent at high volumes with turntable playback is finally sorted. Everything is dead quiet now.
Another peculiar thing was one of 6sn7 tubes (of the pair of them) which hummed only upon touch for the last 6 months since i have had the amp. Finally sorted..no hum at all. I had elaborate plans of buying a new pair which for now are shelved.
The earthing reading now is hovering between 1 and 3 volts. No electrical shocks.
Music now sounds better or maybe it's me who's more relaxed now after experiencing the above changes.
Just to reiterate the point made by more experienced members, if your situation allows it, earthing is important though you might not have the basic issues i had. I am glad I took the time and spent this 3000 rs.
I saw posts by fellow members about the importance of earthing and this evening it was finally done. A few additional things like salt and thimbles etc were bought.
Prior to it and this morning I shoved the prongs of my multimeter into electrical sockets and noticed earthing reading of 25 volts which Google told me should be in the vicinity of 2 to 3 volts. I have also in the past felt slight shock upon touching the amp and preamp chassis.
After the earthing was done...
The bit of hum more prominent at high volumes with turntable playback is finally sorted. Everything is dead quiet now.
Another peculiar thing was one of 6sn7 tubes (of the pair of them) which hummed only upon touch for the last 6 months since i have had the amp. Finally sorted..no hum at all. I had elaborate plans of buying a new pair which for now are shelved.
The earthing reading now is hovering between 1 and 3 volts. No electrical shocks.
Music now sounds better or maybe it's me who's more relaxed now after experiencing the above changes.
Just to reiterate the point made by more experienced members, if your situation allows it, earthing is important though you might not have the basic issues i had. I am glad I took the time and spent this 3000 rs.
Thanks for Sharing. I have also come around to the fact of power and especially the ground being so crucial for Hifi ( more importantly for safety but then we are in an audio forum
)Unfortunately apartment folks dont have an option here...but anyone who is either on the ground floor or has the terra firma accessible must get the grounding done and that could be the biggest upgrade one can do !
Sushant Sharma
Well-Known Member
Audio Elders. A term is coinedAs the elders say, it is important to stay grounded
Might be a good thing to check any current leakage. Maybe there are other options/gadgets to fix this?
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