My not exactly DIY speaker isolation podium

[newlash09]

Hi again all

Very good morning.

Please note that this is a very long post. And I felt the context had to be explained before I get to the solution part.

I've been having my pmc speakers for almost 2.5 years now. They go very deep in the bass. In my untreated room they go to 23hz at -3db, at my listening position, when I measured with REW 2 years back. Sounds awesome right. Will not need to faff with a sub for that below 40hz content that we all yearn for to get a full range audio spectrum. But in a domestic room, they have been a nightmare to tame that deep bass which excites all the room nodes ( as it goes so low it excites the length, width and height nodes as well ).

They sound splendid on EDM and punk etc..which is modern music with computer beats which start and stop on a dime. But play anything from indian Bollywood tracks with real drums, that have bass decay that goes real low, and it was nightmare with all the nodes again making their presence felt. So this was something I really wanted to adress.

I proposed room treatment to my wife, which was promptly shot down. So I had no recourse but to play with speaker positioning and DSP.

Then i read the article by audiopro titled " a king was crowned today" , which filled me with hope that proper speaker placement could help me here. ( My very special thanks to audiopro and prem for that article )

I was travelling when I read that article, so waited till i came back home. And played around with the speaker positioning along those lines for the last 4 days. Used 2 tubes of moov already

Now with the right positioning most of my bass gremlins are gone ( I couldn't exactly follow that rule to a T. The inner edges of my speakers are now placed at 1/6th of the width of the room from side walls as 1/3rd was too narrow in my small room
.And the front baffles are placed at 1/5th of the length of the room, as 1/3rd would have moved them too ahead and constrained walking space. ).

But the 2 below Hindi tracks were still a pain to tame :
1. Dil diya gallan from tiger zinda hai
2. Agar tum saath ho from tamasha

They both still sounded very bloaty with very undefined bass.

Now some flash back...

Since Iam a bass monster, I tend to listen to lots of bass heavy tracks at night. And my downstairs neighbour came knocking a week back.. So i felt i had to decouple my speakers from the floor if I had to continue listening without bothering my neighbours. So decided to place some marble slabs on my thick carpet and place my speakers on top and see.

So I went marble shopping. And finally ended up with 8 marble tiles of 15x15 inches. To decouple each from the other, I bought the below soft rubber mounts from Amazon India.

ajile Clear Recessed Adhesive Bumper/Foot 22 mm Diameter 10 mm Height - 9 Pieces - BIP069-RC: Amazon.in: Home Improvement

ajile Clear Recessed Adhesive Bumper/Foot 22 mm Diameter 10 mm Height - 9 Pieces - BIP069-RC: Amazon.in: Home Improvement

www.amazon.in

Now I placed 4 rubber mounts between each marble tile, and placed my speaker on top with spikes. Now when I even touch the speakers , the entire marble stack along with the speakers rocks back and forth and sideways. Just the way the townshend isolation platforms wobble in the vidoes that I have seen.

So finally got down to testing those 2 tracks. And I just went WOW.... I was getting solid tight deep bass. But this is at my normal listening levels. It could be that at this volume the room nodes are not getting excited. So will have to wait till tomorrow to see if this arrangement even works at loud volumes, as room nodes are room nodes and have nothing to do with speaker isolation.

But at my normal listening volumes the change has been so dramatic, that I wanted to share my findings immediately.

Below are some pics of the isolation podium Iam using. Iam sure that removing some of the slabs will change the sound as per taste. So something worth experimenting for others with bass problems.

My costs were 600 INR for the 8 marble slabs and 750 INR for the rubber isolating mounts ( I bought 3 packs, that is 9 per pack
And i use 4 between each tile.. Except between tile 3 and 4, where I use 5 nos. With an additional rubber mounts in between )

Thanks for reading such a long post

Edit:
Felt the above post was incomplete. So posting the below as well.

I'm not alien to speaker isolation. I had tried them with some oehlbach XL air springs ( which presently still do duty under my tube.amps, for their excellent decoupling ability ), which did tame the bass a bit , and add more detail and clarity in the mid range and treble. But it softened the bass too much., by which I mean there was more bass texture and definition, but less in your stomach impact.. And as I am very very particular about bass depth and impact. I decided not to use isolators on my speakers, and went with spikes into thick carpet..

So much so that I didn't even bother to take the trouble of trying my isoacoustics gaia3 isolation feet, as I feared more of the same effect.

But I will try them this Sunday and report back..

But I feel the present arrangement where the speaker is coupled with one heavy marble tile with spikes. And then the marble tile is sequentially isolated from the floor is delivering better benefits. Just my 2 cents.

Thanks again for reading

Just in case anyone wants to follow my placement, my room dimensions are as under mentioned.. I'm quoting in cms, as measured by me

Length = 459 cms
Width = 347 cms
Height = 264 cms ( with false ceiling)

So if other member's room dimensions change, then they probably have to interpolate or extrapolate accordingly.

Thanks again for reading my long drawn rants

 

[sidvee]

I am no expert Newlash09, but even I have seen this effect in my room, not with marble bases for isolation, but by increasing the height of the speaker with the provided spikes. My theory is that- as there are guidelines for placing speakers in the room length and width-wise, there is also an important factor of vertical placement and as the speaker height (mainly the port/woofer) is moved closer to the center of the vertical height of the room, the low bass is cleaned up as the floor reinforcement is reduced to an extent. My Wilson Sabrina has the option of $250 upgraded spikes/which according to Wilson helps a lot, because it raises the vertical height of the speaker. I suspect that could be one of the reasons why you are hearing what you are hearing.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[arj]

I would concur with Sidvee and add further that before experimenting with isolation, you could try a different placement . Think prem had provided a formula sometime back in a thread based on quarter waves but as a first cut 1/3 or 1/5 of room length and 1/3 of room width ( rear and side measured from front and inner side of speaker) is a good measure.

While they may have aesthetic implications, you can pull them out there for hearing and move them back when not needed. Simple steel spikes on to a carpet or a rubber contact onto a tile are all thats usually needed but you can of course experiment for tonality from there.

 

[Kannan]

The bass bounce appears to be more from the rear corners. Just to experiment, heap some pillows at the rear corners and behind the speakers and see if there is any change in the bass response.

 

[MaSh]

Great read and a lovely solution. I tried using sand boxes and thar cleared up the bass boom by a huge margin. Did it a couple of years ago and never removed them. Speakers sit on a slab of granite which sits on about 10kg of sand.

MaSh

 

[Ashenden]

I'm not alien to speaker isolation. I had tried them with some oehlbach XL air springs ( which presently still do duty under my tube.amps, for their excellent decoupling ability ), which did tame the bass a bit , and add more detail and clarity in the mid range and treble. But it softened the bass too much., by which I mean there was more bass texture and definition, but less in your stomach impact.. And as I am very very particular about bass depth and impact. I decided not to use isolators on my speakers, and went with spikes into thick carpet..

So much so that I didn't even bother to take the trouble of trying my isoacoustics gaia3 isolation feet, as I feared more of the same effect.

Thanks newlash09, for the post, nice and elegant solution
I currently use the Isoacoustic stands for desktop/near field and they provide very good isolation/positioning as against placing the BS directly on the surface. They are supposed to react to the speaker energy and movement of speaker cabinet and hence not mass loaded like traditional stands. Initially, before getting it I was a bit skeptical as I thought that the movement of the stand in one direction might reduce the speaker energy and perceived bass, but fortunately it works fine and improves the sound for the better

My costs were 600 INR for the 8 marble slabs and 750 INR for the rubber isolating mounts ( I bought 3 packs, that is 9 per pack
And i use 4 between each tile.. Except between tile 3 and 4, where I use 5 nos. With an additional rubber mounts in between )

Glad that you could upgrade your sound quality at a low cost

Used 2 tubes of moov already

Ha ha, R&D expenses

 

[Kannan]

@newlash09 Add carpet or a flat mat on the top marble on which the speaker is standing.

 

[newlash09]

I am no expert Newlash09, but even I have seen this effect in my room, not with marble bases for isolation, but by increasing the height of the speaker with the provided spikes. My theory is that- as there are guidelines for placing speakers in the room length and width-wise, there is also an important factor of vertical placement and as the speaker height (mainly the port/woofer) is moved closer to the center of the vertical height of the room, the low bass is cleaned up as the floor reinforcement is reduced to an extent. My Wilson Sabrina has the option of $250 upgraded spikes/which according to Wilson helps a lot, because it raises the vertical height of the speaker. I suspect that could be one of the reasons why you are hearing what you are hearing.
Cheers,
Sid

Thanks a lot for that insight sidvee. I was unaware that raising the speakers was cancelling bass nodes in the vertical mode. I might add a few more marble tiles in that case

Apart from that.. I also feel that the extra 8.5 cms of added height due to the marble slabs has raised the tweeter about 4 cms above ear height. And this is giving a much smoother treble response, as I previously felt the treble was a bit bitey at ear height. Thanks again

 

[newlash09]

I would concur with Sidvee and add further that before experimenting with isolation, you could try a different placement . Think prem had provided a formula sometime back in a thread based on quarter waves but as a first cut 1/3 or 1/5 of room length and 1/3 of room width ( rear and side measured from front and inner side of speaker) is a good measure.

While they may have aesthetic implications, you can pull them out there for hearing and move them back when not needed. Simple steel spikes on to a carpet or a rubber contact onto a tile are all thats usually needed but you can of course experiment for tonality from there.

Thanks Arj

I had actually followed the same rule for placement. But since 1/3rd of the room width was placing the speakers too close to each other, I decided go extrapolate to 1/6th..And it has worked wonders in my room.

And moving speakers too and fro is really not a viable option for me, as the entire floor is carpeted. So I can't slide them or mark positions on it. So I would have to spend time measuring the speakers each time for my listening.

 

[newlash09]

The bass bounce appears to be more from the rear corners. Just to experiment, heap some pillows at the rear corners and behind the speakers and see if there is any change in the bass response.

Hi kannan...

Iam definitely considering bass traps on the rear corner and ceiling as well. Especially where the 3 axis of the room meet. Also checked out some bass traps on Amazon India. But not sure those sponge triangles would really work. But something that I will definitely do in the next future. Thanks again kannan

 

[newlash09]

Great read and a lovely solution. I tried using sand boxes and thar cleared up the bass boom by a huge margin. Did it a couple of years ago and never removed them. Speakers sit on a slab of granite which sits on about 10kg of sand.

MaSh

Hi mash

Thanks a lot for your kind words. The present marble slate is working wonders. I will try the isoacoustics gaia3 on top of these soon and will report back.

 

[newlash09]

@newlash09 Add carpet or a flat mat on the top marble on which the speaker is standing.

Hi again kannan..Will surely give it a shot. The present arrangement has already softened the bass a bit. But maybe a carpet on top can better couple the spikes to the marble slabs and get more bass slam I will try. Thanks

 

[newlash09]

Thanks newlash09, for the post, nice and elegant solution
I currently use the Isoacoustic stands for desktop/near field and they provide very good isolation/positioning as against placing the BS directly on the surface. They are supposed to react to the speaker energy and movement of speaker cabinet and hence not mass loaded like traditional stands. Initially, before getting it I was a bit skeptical as I thought that the movement of the stand in one direction might reduce the speaker energy and perceived bass, but fortunately it works fine and improves the sound for the better

Glad that you could upgrade your sound quality at a low cost

Ha ha, R&D expenses

Hi sandeep....thanks for reaching out...

I will be trying the isoacoustics gaia3 on my speakers on top of these marble podiums and will report back. Unfortunately Iam looking at a week of travel starting tomorrow. Hence the delay in trying them out.

 

[prem]

Newlash09, use 1/5 or 1/7 from side wall. Not 1/6. For 1/5 or 1/7, measure from outer side of speaker to speaker wall. For 1/3, measure from inner side of speaker to side wall.

For example, if width of room is 15 feet, then using 1/5 principle, distance of speaker from outer side to side wall is 3 feet. If using 1/3 principle, distance of speaker from inner side to side wall is 5 feet.

Also I think the carpet you are using looks to be of man made material. Try and use natural fibres. Helps a lot.

 

[Weathered]

@prem I'm curious as to why you recommended different (inner/outer) speaker sidewalls for 1/3 and 1/5. Most say to measure from the acoustic centre of the speaker.

 

[prem]

Weathered, I don’t have any answers to your questions. I learnt speaker positioning from Barry Diament. I use his principle and generally find that it works in most cases.

 

[newlash09]

Newlash09, use 1/5 or 1/7 from side wall. Not 1/6. For 1/5 or 1/7, measure from outer side of speaker to speaker wall. For 1/3, measure from inner side of speaker to side wall.

For example, if width of room is 15 feet, then using 1/5 principle, distance of speaker from outer side to side wall is 3 feet. If using 1/3 principle, distance of speaker from inner side to side wall is 5 feet.

Also I think the carpet you are using looks to be of man made material. Try and use natural fibres. Helps a lot.

Thanks a ton again prem

And really sorry for the delay in my response. Only today I revisited this thread again. Will surely reposition the speakers as above and will revert back . Thanks again for the guidance

 

[newlash09]

Hi again all

As previously planned I have been trying the isoacoustics gaia3 for close to a week now.

My DIY speaker podiums solved my immediate bass problems. And haven't had any complaints from my downstairs neighbour anymore. And it also increased mid range and treble transparency and clarity by a lot. But on prolonged listening I felt the bass had gone completely soft without the bite I was used to. Since my listening is atleast 50% bass heavy tracks. I realised it couldn't live with it in its present configuration.

So removed the soft rubber isolators I had between each marble tile, and placed 3 tiles on top of each other directly. And then placed the speakers with the gaia3 mounted on top.

The transformation in sound is really noticable. Iam now getting good impacting bass while still retaining the mid range and treble transparency I've got used to. It is a proper one time fix it and forget solution to achieve proper compromise between clarity and dynamics / bass speed and impact.

Had I not tried my own DIY speaker podiums experiment, I would have been screaming the merits the of gaia3 from roof tops by now

They almost give a speaker upgrade kind of results for 10% of the cost.

But that said... Iam certain that with a bit of patience. Adjusting the number of marble tiles and rubber isolators in my DIY speaker podiums, I could have arrived at the same result. But the isoacoustics gaia3 are definitely a ready made fix as dictated by speaker weight straight away. Thanks for reading

 

[mpw]

would the Gaia 3 increase the height of the speakers ie change the listening height ?

if possible - please post a picture

 

[newlash09]

would the Gaia 3 increase the height of the speakers ie change the listening height ?

if possible - please post a picture

Sure MPW...the speaker height is increased by a inch as compared to the spikes it comes with. But since my setup is placed on a thick shag rag, I wanted to give the gaia3 footers a solid foundation to work on. So I still have 3 marble tiles piled on top of each other, which adds another 3 inches by itself