My seven year plan and my last lunge at it

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Hi all

As some might know, I had hatched a plan way back in 2017 for my new DIY speakers instead of constantly upgrading my commercial speakers. . So the idea was to get my own speakers built, with the best drivers we could source. And in the end.. They turned out to be spectacular but. not cheap . At that time, they were heavy with external crossovers built inside external wooden boxes with farady cages for each channel. And they sounded absolutely stonking..

Now given this new reference, it would have been impossible within my budget constraints to again buy a new commercial speaker to improve upon the DIY speakers I already have , as there are already top notch drivers in place. Besides, there is a sense of scale, ease and dynamics that big drivers in big cabinets provide, that smaller drivers in more expensive hightech cabinets fail to provide to my ears. And the reason I went DIY was to design them to be able to go active without much faff.

So why this post after 6 years. Why not before .

Because it would have been another boring post of would be builds and ambitions. And iam only posting today, because iam finally close. And considering the time span of 7 years I gave myself due to financial restrictions, iam still running late at the moment. I still don't think I could buy a Deqx Pro 8 HD with my savings this year.

Going 4 way active is not easy. I had to save for years to buy the amps, 3 pairs of tube mono blocks ( I only need two, one is a backup should a tube go somewhere). Then tons of decent interconnects, power cables and speaker cables to wire everything up. Then a high power class D amp for the upper bass. And a pro crown amp for the lower bass. The total wattage per side will be upwards of proper 2000 Watts per channel in a small 11x15 ft room. With 2x15 inch bass drivers for lower bass, one 10 inch for upper bass per speaker. . This necessitated that the room be equipped to handle such bass power . So ended up treating my room in 2020. These speakers will never get to sound as good as they probably could given the restriction the room size poses. But that's a compromise I have to live with for the rest of my life I guess.

Now comes the big question..... To Deqx or not ( not the behringer deqx2492 ) . Deqx is the best there is in 2 channel audio, very similar to the trinnov altitudes of home theatre. I came really close to buying a esoteric N-05XD, then a dcs bartok and finally the ultimate esoteric N-01XD itself. But the question was always how much of the dac's benefits would get across a passive crossover network and ultimately to the drivers. So I decided to abstain, and got a digital transport instead. So there goes my journey and plan so far.

Progress on this post will be slow, as Deqx processors are really expensive. And the newest gen 4 are still not releaseed yet.. But will keep updating as I chug along

 

[Nikhil]

Amazing Manohar! Please list out your gear when you have the time.
Seven years is a fantastic journey when you are setting up your audio gear.

I am of the opinion that one should take time to put together an audio setup.
You have to start somewhere of course but after you reach a point adding gear should be well thought out.
Technology aside so many of us change or evolve along the way and one's audio setup follows.

So much better IMO than going out there and just buying a setup!


.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Amazing Manohar! Please list out your gear when you have the time.
Seven years is a fantastic journey when you are setting up your audio gear.

I am of the opinion that one should take time to put together an audio setup.
You have to start somewhere of course but after you reach a point adding gear should be well thought out.
Technology aside so many of us change or evolve along the way and one's audio setup follows.

So much better IMO than going out there and just buying a setup!


.

Thanks nikhil ...

I've always believed that unless one is a Ambani or a adani, we can't just wake up in the morning one day and decide we want a great sounding music setup by nightfall. So it takes planning, saving and buying.

I've spent years screaming coarse on all the threads asking for a HT within 1L or 50k. That None ever built Rome in a day. But I don't think it fell anywhere

Below is the current chain.. And the lumin u1x is a new addition. The power supply is next to the MFA passive preamp. I don't believe in investing in cabling though I have seen different presentations with different cabling that I can't explain. But considering the amount of cabling a 4 way active setup needs... I presently want to let them pass. I will probably revisit this area again, once funds permit.

At the back of it all is some great cabling in terms of inter connects. As I believe that capacitance of a cable matters. But I don't believe in power cables whose sole purpose is to deliver current... Okay I will go put on my helmet and await the brickbats

 

[reignofchaos]

Do not buy that Behringer. It sounds horrible - absolutely horrible. It doesn't deserve to be in a high end audio system.

A better option is to buy a high end PC and the best pro sound card you can find. Then feed the digital output of those into 3 or 4 separate external DACs or a dac like the Prism Orpheus which has multiple channels.

 

[Naturelover]

Do not buy that Behringer. It sounds horrible - absolutely horrible. It doesn't deserve to be in a high end audio system.

A better option is to buy a high end PC and the best pro sound card you can find. Then feed the digital output of those into 3 or 4 separate external DACs or a dac like the Prism Orpheus which has multiple channels.

Not the Behringer, is what Manohar has written

 

[reignofchaos]

Not the Behringer, is what Manohar has written

I know he didn't but it is better not to even think of introducing that device into one's system.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

I know he didn't but it is better not to even think of introducing that device into one's system.

It is a Deqx Pro 8 HD active that iam considering And iam bullish that dsp and going active is the next big jump in sonics, as compared to upgrading the dac and putting it through the same detail and power sapping passive crossover network.

More details here

Choose a DEQX - DEQX

DEQX Audio Processors The new DEQX Gen4 speaker calibration and room correction processors feature an order-of-magnitude improvement in resolution, all-new digital and analog hardware and unparalleled connectivity. LS200 Integrated Power Pre-4 Digital Preamp Pre-8 Advanced HD-Active Subscribe...

www.deqx.com

 

[Nitin K]

Very nice setup Manu. Looks like a spaceship's console panel. Which cd player is that?

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Very nice setup Manu. Looks like a spaceship's console panel. Which cd player is that?

Thanks nitin .... Yeah it does look good. Would have been better if it sounded good too . The cd player is a esoteric K-01. I plan on using it as a CD transport into the Deqx.

 

[Nitin K]

Thanks nitin .... Yeah it does look good. Would have been better if it sounded good too . The cd player is a esoteric K-01. I plan on using it as a CD transport into the Deqx.

Most welcome Manu, all the components look solidly built & beautiful. I am sure they must be sounding fabulous as you must have carefully matched them All the best for your future acquisition.

 

[Kannan]

In my opinion, there will not be much benefit of using four outboard DACs to take the active digital outputs from the DEQX and then again running analogue cables from the DACs outputs to the amp inputs.
Suggest you use the DEQx as a full fledged DSP-cum-Dac to connect it directly to the four amps (assuming 4-way active).
A full digital chain is usually warranted when the DACs are built right on the amp like was/is a fad in car audio so there are literally no analogue cables in the chain.
It is simply a given that active crossovers are technically and aurally superior to analogue crossovers. The multitude of real time tuning options will also help in better understanding the nuances and will dramatically improve your listening capability, especially in identifying phase inaccuracies, dips and peaks just by listening.
Word of caution: Tuning active xos can be drain on the years especially with having to run pink noise, while noise and other noises.

 

[Vivek Batra]

Thanks nikhil ...

I've always believed that unless one is a Ambani or a adani, we can't just wake up in the morning one day and decide we want a great sounding music setup by nightfall. So it takes planning, saving and buying.

I've spent years screaming coarse on all the threads asking for a HT within 1L or 50k. That None ever built Rome in a day. But I don't think it fell anywhere

Below is the current chain.. And the lumin u1x is a new addition. The power supply is next to the MFA passive preamp. I don't believe in investing in cabling though I have seen different presentations with different cabling that I can't explain. But considering the amount of cabling a 4 way active setup needs... I presently want to let them pass. I will probably revisit this area again, once funds permit.

At the back of it all is some great cabling in terms of inter connects. As I believe that capacitance of a cable matters. But I don't believe in power cables whose sole purpose is to deliver current... Okay I will go put on my helmet and await the brickbats

View attachment 76533

Great set up manohar ji. Would like to have your opinion on Lumin. At some point of time I want to buy a network transport and Lumin is on my list.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

In my opinion, there will not be much benefit of using four outboard DACs to take the active digital outputs from the DEQX and then again running analogue cables from the DACs outputs to the amp inputs.
Suggest you use the DEQx as a full fledged DSP-cum-Dac to connect it directly to the four amps (assuming 4-way active).
A full digital chain is usually warranted when the DACs are built right on the amp like was/is a fad in car audio so there are literally no analogue cables in the chain.
It is simply a given that active crossovers are technically and aurally superior to analogue crossovers. The multitude of real time tuning options will also help in better understanding the nuances and will dramatically improve your listening capability, especially in identifying phase inaccuracies, dips and peaks just by listening.
Word of caution: Tuning active xos can be drain on the years especially with having to run pink noise, while noise and other noises.

Thanks a ton sir ..
I will be using the Deqx as a active crossover cum dac, and will go analogue into the amps. Definitely not considering adding more dac's at the moment. The time, frequency response and phase alignment across the full spectrum, and just not at the crossover points is what appealed to me to start with. Iam waiting for news on their launch date and availability. In the meantime there are other things to sort out too, like getting my amps serviced etc. So most likely the big bang will happen close to 2024 Christmas.

 

[bhooshaniyer]

Hi all

As some might know, I had hatched a plan way back in 2017 for my new DIY speakers instead of constantly upgrading my commercial speakers. . So the idea was to get my own speakers built, with the best drivers we could source. And in the end.. They turned out to be spectacular but. not cheap . At that time, they were heavy with external crossovers built inside external wooden boxes with farady cages for each channel. And they sounded absolutely stonking..

Now given this new reference, it would have been impossible within my budget constraints to again buy a new commercial speaker to improve upon the DIY speakers I already have , as there are already top notch drivers in place. Besides, there is a sense of scale, ease and dynamics that big drivers in big cabinets provide, that smaller drivers in more expensive hightech cabinets fail to provide to my ears. And the reason I went DIY was to design them to be able to go active without much faff.

So why this post after 6 years. Why not before .

Because it would have been another boring post of would be builds and ambitions. And iam only posting today, because iam finally close. And considering the time span of 7 years I gave myself due to financial restrictions, iam still running late at the moment. I still don't think I could buy a Deqx Pro 8 HD with my savings this year.

Going 4 way active is not easy. I had to save for years to buy the amps, 3 pairs of tube mono blocks ( I only need two, one is a backup should a tube go somewhere). Then tons of decent interconnects, power cables and speaker cables to wire everything up. Then a high power class D amp for the upper bass. And a pro crown amp for the lower bass. The total wattage per side will be upwards of proper 2000 Watts per channel in a small 11x15 ft room. With 2x15 inch bass drivers for lower bass, one 10 inch for upper bass per speaker. . This necessitated that the room be equipped to handle such bass power . So ended up treating my room in 2020. These speakers will never get to sound as good as they probably could given the restriction the room size poses. But that's a compromise I have to live with for the rest of my life I guess.

Now comes the big question..... To Deqx or not ( not the behringer deqx2492 ) . Deqx is the best there is in 2 channel audio, very similar to the trinnov altitudes of home theatre. I came really close to buying a esoteric N-05XD, then a dcs bartok and finally the ultimate esoteric N-01XD itself. But the question was always how much of the dac's benefits would get across a passive crossover network and ultimately to the drivers. So I decided to abstain, and got a digital transport instead. So there goes my journey and plan so far.

Progress on this post will be slow, as Deqx processors are really expensive. And the newest gen 4 are still not releaseed yet.. But will keep updating as I chug along

Manu i am glad I had the privilege to visit, audition and more importantly watch you at work in your lab. Yes that's what I now think your listening room is...your lab for your experience and experiments where you leave your worries and world at the door steps and enter this magical world of your "system build". In a way all of us should be blessed(but not all of us are) to get this passion to do things and build- guess it keeps us younger and sharper. Once again kudos for your ability to stay the course in this long journey and not be disillusioned with challenges that are inevitable. Thanks for the inspiration and information jn your thread.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Great set up manohar ji. Would like to have your opinion on Lumin. At some point of time I want to buy a network transport and Lumin is on my list.

Thanks vivek ji. Everyone calls me manu or mano. So ji is not required .

I've only used the lumin for a few hours so far. And my main amps are not here at the moment. So iam using my back up amp. Initial impressions are of a noticeably cleaner sound and more details. But it is varying depending on the tracks. On some well recorded tracks the added clarity is very good. So it seems to be a noticeable improvement over the azur 851N I was using previously. But the system has not been played for more than 5 months, so everything needs to break in, including the lumin.

The biggest difference I've noticed so far is on 'georgio by moroder' from the album - random access memories from daft punk. In the beginning of the track, georgio is taking with a lot of voices in the back ground. Iam very familiar with this track, but this is the first time that I could follow the background voices so clearly.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Manu i am glad I had the privilege to visit, audition and more importantly watch you at work in your lab. Yes that's what I now think your listening room is...your lab for your experience and experiments where you leave your worries and world at the door steps and enter this magical world of your "system build". In a way all of us should be blessed(but not all of us are) to get this passion to do things and build- guess it keeps us younger and sharper. Once again kudos for your ability to stay the course in this long journey and not be disillusioned with challenges that are inevitable. Thanks for the inspiration and information jn your thread.

Thanks a ton for your kind words cheta

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Great set up manohar ji. Would like to have your opinion on Lumin. At some point of time I want to buy a network transport and Lumin is on my list.

I forgot to add in my above reply, that I've only tried via coaxial RCA input so far. Yet to try out the usb.

 

[bornfi]

Very intriguing/interesting approach, Manohar. I never thought that high fidelity has any place for DSPs. I will be scared of taking any such plunge because the more processing you introduce farther you go from the original. Just my thought that I wanted to share.

 

[aeroash]

Very intriguing/interesting approach, Manohar. I never thought that high fidelity has any place for DSPs. I will be scared of taking any such plunge because the more processing you introduce farther you go from the original. Just my thought that I wanted to share.

This is a common misconception.
Passive crossovers are huge bottlenecks. They not only add colour, but also bog down your amplification. In essence, an active DSP has more chances of getting to the "original" than a passive network.

@Yelamanchili manohar you very well knew that this thread was going to be a discussion on Passive/Active.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Very intriguing/interesting approach, Manohar. I never thought that high fidelity has any place for DSPs. I will be scared of taking any such plunge because the more processing you introduce farther you go from the original. Just my thought that I wanted to share.

Absolutely no worries.. There is certainly a school of thought that believes in keeping things simple. I wouldn't have bothered with going active with a active analogue crossover or a simple digital crossover. It is what the Deqx claims they do is what appeals to me. It is more of a speaker correction system actually. It corrects the entire chain end to end, including the sonic offsets due to cabling, amps and every individual driver. If there claims are right, then a deqx'd driver will be more accurate than any passively driven driver at any price point. Then the active crossovers and room corrections are only the additional icing on the cake. I will be heading out shortly, but will try to create a separate post to describe what Deqx does.