Need advise to buy a $1000 amplifier

[shkumar4963]

Amplifier measurement that determine amplifier quality
We all know RMS power capacity, dynamic power capacity, frequency response, current capacity, output impedence and distortion are important measures.

What else is important in an amplifier. How can we tell an amplifier is of high quality based on hard engineering measurements.

I know that auditioning is needed to detect finer points of amplifier design. But here I am looking for things that can be objectively measured.

What can we measure in NAD and Parasound that is not available in Yamaha, Denon or Onkyo.

 

[asliarun]

Capacity and quality of the transformer, quality of components such as capacitors, volume pot, wiring, binding posts, cabinet, how minimalistic the design is, etc.

Then there is the whole question of how the amp is designed or configured as well - how it is biased towards class A mode etc.

 

[Maxprocrj]

Are you a electronics engineer sir....(never mind)

OR

A person who loves music with utmost fidelity (as per the budget)?

If the 2nd one then ,please share your speaker details or which you are planning to buy etc..

In my humble opinion Hi fi Music is not about specifications,features and numbers, its all about our understanding of sounds by our brain which is a poetry of air (Ctrl +c) !!!!!!

 

[shkumar4963]

I see what you are saying. But I believe abd you may agree that amplifiers are not works of art. They are based on science and engineering and are measured and re measured numerous times to improve their quality one step at a time. And they should be bought as a piece of engineering marvel and not an outcome of artistic creation. Othwise you will get swayed by subjective unsubstantiated opinion of others who may be biased because they got paid by the manufacturers.

 

[rpanand25]

I think the answer lies somewhere in between. Let us take Kumar's line. Why the companies do innumerable tunings to their design and sound whether amps,DACs, turntables etc? to arrive at a particular 'sound' result which is their signature and which they think certain type of consumers would like. whether it is neutral, forward, mellow etc. Ultimately the space between the ears and the master of all, the brain, which dictates what one likes and not. All the technical wizardry ultimately ends to catering the subjective likes and dislikes in us. We can see that many designs, while technically superlative, end up in disgrace while trying to satisfy human audio cravings.
I donot know whether i have effectively put across my thoughts.

 

[bhuvkalra]

Specs would certainly matter to a very large extent. The other undisputed bottomline being the sound quality as perceived by You.
No amount of research could be enough I guess! I was in a similar predicament till recently.
1000 bucks gives you a reasonable amount of choices I guess. People have reviewed enough and you do find amps placed in different segments as such. As long as you are broadly clear as to what you want...AVR? Stereo Amp? etc. That being one and if you ar clear bout your choice in terms of brightness / neutrality of the amp..you wont go very wrong. Try go for the top end within your budget.

 

[shkumar4963]

Bhuvkalra: why top end within my budget. And how would I know what is the top end. Is that only about the price of the amp. If not hiw would I know a top end from the bottom end to listen to. Is that all of them from 500 to 20,000 all are of the same quality. It is only the subjective preference that differentiate one from the other. If that is the case, some reviewers would have named a 500 dollar amp the best in world and other a 20,000 dollar one. But I don't see that. Please educate me .

 

[asliarun]

I see what you are saying. But I believe abd you may agree that amplifiers are not works of art. They are based on science and engineering and are measured and re measured numerous times to improve their quality one step at a time. And they should be bought as a piece of engineering marvel and not an outcome of artistic creation. Othwise you will get swayed by subjective unsubstantiated opinion of others who may be biased because they got paid by the manufacturers.

Not all reviews are bogus or biased. And even if a review is subjective, it can still apply to you.

So not sure what your question really is.

Do you buy a 10 lakh car purely on specs? And if you read someone's review of how the car handles on curvy or bumpy roads, do you dismiss it as a subjective opinion?

Would you not take a test drive to ultimately make up your mind? And would you can only take a test drive and deliberately ignore everything else like specs, performance, reviews by magazines etc??

You would probably do all of the above. So why is this any different for audio equipment?

I will tell you why. It is because India still has the babu hangover that HiFi audio is for the elite.. Like private clubs. And HiFi vendors and showrooms often act snooty and try to cultivate an air of mystique around the products. Car salesmen on the other hand will fall over each other to sell you their car. So it is a lot more needlessly difficult to listen to a bunch of amps for ourselves and make up our minds.

But yeah, in the $1000 or $2000 budget range, one largely gets a level of quality that one pays for.. In terms of quality of design, quality of implementation, quality of components etc. Caveat: based on my very limited experience. Specs do matter and yes, they are often significantly better.

For example, a quality amp will often double up in power supply capacity when impedance halves. So they are better able to drive low impedance speakers. Look at the size of the transformer and amount of capacitance in an Odyssey amp for example and compare it to a lower budget amp.

 

[kestrel5915]

...We can see that many designs, while technically superlative, end up in disgrace while trying to satisfy human audio cravings. ...

Sir, I would like to know which audio equipment (mainly speakers) can be put in this category.

 

[rpanand25]

Sir, I would like to know which audio equipment (mainly speakers) can be put in this category.

I f you go through this forum itself many such examples of HFV being dissatisfied with medium or even high end equipment can be found. While one may argue that the equipment in the line is not matched (particularly more important for stereo kit) leading to dissatisfaction generally manufacturers have certain design philosophy which reflects in their products. All the more reason for the so called matching to satisfy one's taste.
one recent example http://www.hifivision.com/amplifiers/55712-yamaha-500-sounding-awful.html

 

[venkatcr]

one recent example http://www.hifivision.com/amplifiers/55712-yamaha-500-sounding-awful.html

Hey, you are jumping the gun here. Remember the same individual amp sounded good elsewhere. This is not a bad design or a bad product. It has more to do with the set up, connections or some such thing. The OP there is not cursing the sound signature of the amp or writing it off.

Cheers

 

[rav_mk1]

Everything in this world has a price which comes from the cost that has gone into making it, So there are different categories of good quality and the subsequent money you pay for it, Maruti is very good quality in its segment as it satisfies the purpose it is built for.. So is a Merc.. that appeals/belongs to a different category.. Anyway what Im arriving at is you get what you pay for and comparing a $500 amp with a $1000 amp would be most unfair as they are not made at the same standards.. you are comparing apples to oranges... My friend when you pay $500 for an amp you get a decent preamp, a volume pot that is at most utilitarian and a power section which will not bring the house down.. whereas $1000 will give the designers more freedom to place better components like a bigger transformer a robust power stage which increase its output with the increase in load..you have to identify a few brands in this price category... for starters look at Naim, Krell, Arcam, Music fidelity, Bryston... see which "house sound" you like.. take it forward from there.. all the above companies put a lot of research into their products and will give you all the basic information required to any sort of informed comparison.. e.g. Power out put at different impedance loads, Va of the transformer and the Microfarads of the Capacitors (important to keep the balance in sound when you decide to let your hair down)..
I got a krell and its built like a tank everytime I switch it on the Fluorescents dim a bit.. proof of a strong power supply and stage..
Sonically its not deterred by even the most difficult and inefficient of speaker loads.. makes them sing makes them rock makes them (and me ;P) dance to its tune..
SO go out there listen and identify the brands then maybe you can do a spec comparison..

Cheers
Ravi

 

[krisballa]

one recent example http://www.hifivision.com/amplifiers...ing-awful.html

@rpanand25

In the thread you have quoted, the OP connected the wires in wrong polarities. And about the sound signature, it depends on personal taste. That same amp sounded me good when connected to Polk speakers in the demo room. And I believe in speaker+amp matching.

 

[Srinath_seshadri]

Bhuvkalra: why top end within my budget. And how would I know what is the top end. Is that only about the price of the amp. If not hiw would I know a top end from the bottom end to listen to. Is that all of them from 500 to 20,000 all are of the same quality. It is only the subjective preference that differentiate one from the other. If that is the case, some reviewers would have named a 500 dollar amp the best in world and other a 20,000 dollar one. But I don't see that. Please educate me .

For $1000 - I'd look for a vintage high quality amp that's been gone over by a good tech - like echowars on audio karma.
Or something newer than is still japanese, and not chinese.
BTW your needs are 2 channel ? or Home theater.
If its home theater - forget everything I said earlier.

Home theater actually sounds better if the amp is better at processing dolby than outright sound quality. Some of the TOTL form the late 90's and early 2000 excel in that regard.

Oh yea, you can tell that a Big NAD is better sound than say a big yamaha, or denon but 99% of the time, you wont care, and there will be 1% where the yamaha is better, and 1% where the NAD is better. Think of it like a venn diagram with equal diameter circles, with 99% overlap and 1% outside.

My personal experiences are with a Denon AVR 5700, Nad T 762 and a yamaha DSP 3090. Of these 3 only the yamaha doesnt' have a tuner. The rest have great tuners, and it may settle the deal in favor of one those other 2. The Nad T 762 I have sent in a disturbance on video. So that may be somehting to check out. Make sure what you get is good and not like mine if it is the NAD.

Cool.
Srinath.

 

[Srinath_seshadri]

BTW $1000 is a lot of $$$. You could get everything you want, 2 ch+ HT + speakers + a few other things and have $$$ left over if you spend wisely.
2 ch - I recomend Adcom GFA 535 and its corresponding Pre amp, or a GFA 555 and its pair.
HT - Yamaha DSP 3090, or Denon 5700, 5800, 4800.
Speakers - well, look on your local Craigslist and post whet is there. All of these are pretty cheap on CL usually.
Cool.
Srinath.

 

[Srinath_seshadri]

I had a sansui 9500. I wasn't impressed. Too muddy, its got power, but its a bit too imprecise if you ask me.

SAE - what SAE amp ? I have a 20 w power amp and the XXIX preamp I am pretty impressed with. Those are good sounding, even if its only 20 watts. SAE stuff sounds very very good, but working on them is a real nightmare.

Also most quads - typically they have a little bit of a dumbed down sound. They thought that since its all around you, they can put in crap and we'll be OK.

The exception to that is a HK 800+ quad. The only 1/2 decent quad I have heard. And I've had fisher 404, a 414, a Marantz 4230, a pioneer qx949 and a few more.

Actually of all these you have named yogibear - I think that KA701 may be the best, or get its cap coupled equivalent - the ka 8100.

Luxman - what Luxman. Again a few impressed me - the L430 was awesome, but the R115/117 was a bit of a let down. The L580 is worth checking out, likely to be $$$$ though.

Cool.
Srinath.

 

[Srinath_seshadri]

I have a mitsu -pretty good some thing DA 101 or some like that.
Luxman black face = junk.
The only hting I can suggest as a step up form the 701 will be an 8100. Seriously, kenwoods sound far better than their reputation suggests.

The amps you need to try, Sansui B3000, pioneer sx2500, and an adcom 535 - not a 535 II. Most anything else wont be better.

Cool.
Srinath.

 

[shkumar4963]

Speakers are KEF LS50. I currently have Yamaha RX-V800. It is a mid price HT class d receiver with 100 wpc. The new one needs to do a substantial improvement over the current one (if it is possible in real audio quality)

 

[Maxprocrj]

Go for an audition a19,heard it super matching...you may like it...

 

[Otpidus]

Go for Arcam A19. Its tonality suits the LS50 to the tee. Its a detailed amp for its price and offers good sound-stage that will only be augmented by LS50. Since A19 has a very good power supply, driving less efficient LS50s to moderately high volume works perfectly. A steep rise of noise floor sets in from volume 75 on wards, which shouldn't be a concern.