Need help deciding between two LED's

[longshanks]

You still haven't answered as to why one would watch a tv in torch mode at full backlight setting,since in the non dimmed zone the content shown will be very very bright.

I do not prefer very very bright displays which glow like torch(i find them quite distracting to my eyes), hence i personally use a plasma

You were the one who said LCD's have great brightness and that is a great advantage so according to your preference LCD's should show good blacks even set at high back light, other wise the additional light output of the LCD's dont make any sense for normal home viewing.

If 150 to 200cd/m2 is ideal then people should stick to plasma rather then buying an LCD and dimming its back light to get decent blacks.

Also the TV in question here is a local dimming LCD aint it?


Regarding the ANSI method, television info says:


Some other sites have a much simpler test using a checkerboard pattern (and refer to this as checkerboard contrast), but our test gives much more information on how the increasing amount of white bleeds into the black area.

Other sites also forget one important technical aspect of this test: that having white on the screen can lead to some of the light from the white screen area reaching the measuring instrument and creating an artificially high reading for the black (a problem called veiling glare, which produces very large measurement errors that lead to erroneous conclusions).

We avoid this by using a special black Duvatyne mask to block the white areas of the display; any light that reaches the measuring device has come directly from the center target on the screen; not from the surrounding area on the screen.

 

[adder]

I do not prefer very very bright displays which glow like torch(i find them quite distracting to my eyes), hence i personally use a plasma

You were the one who said LCD's have great brightness and that is a great advantage so according to your preference LCD's should show good blacks even set at high back light, other wise the additional light output of the LCD's dont make any sense for normal home viewing.

If 150 to 200cd/m2 is ideal then people should stick to plasma rather then buying an LCD and dimming its back light to get decent blacks.

Also the TV in question here is a local dimming LCD aint it?

Lcd has the potential for great brightness,but i personally don't use the higher backlight setting in the night time,i usually let the light sensor take care of it.

In the day time a higher backlight setting is required to defeat the glare.Otherwise there will be a loss in contrast and at daytime and especially in VA based lcds one cannot see the those deep blacks.

Thats the reason most lcds today have a light sensor which adjusts the backlight according to ambient light(most our of natural source).

If lcd manufacturers just made limiter to backlight setting of no more then 150cd/m2 then why would one buy it since its more expensive then a plasma,heck they could even now advertize 50 to 60watt power label for a 55" LED-LCD.The fact is no one is going to watch tv always in a dark environment with no ambient light hitting the screen.
Secondly a plasma being a glass reflects more and washes out more when ambient light hits the screen and its either limited to extremely low brightness to start with or use the ABL circuit to drop the peak brightness (from 200 or 150 depending or make model to around 1/3rd their peak brightness) depending on the countries energy laws.

You cannot compare a lcd to plasma ,lcd needs a light source in order for us to see any image.Dimming or increasing the light output of the backlight will have a toll on the reading.

Even ifs its a local dimming tv,one still can set the backlight from roughly 100 to around 400+ cd/m2.

Now televisoninfo says this "To measure the black level of the display, we put up an all-black screen in DisplayMate and measure the luminance at the center of the screen, in candelas per square meter (cd/m2

Now if the HX925 in question was measured with local dimming ON it would be unmeasurable for their KM CS200 meter.But if the local dimming is set to OFF then if the max out the backlight setting to 400+ cd/m2 naturally one is going to get a reading of 0.08cd/m2.

Regarding the ANSI method, television info says:


Some other sites have a much simpler test using a checkerboard pattern (and refer to this as checkerboard contrast), but our test gives much more information on how the increasing amount of white bleeds into the black area.

Other sites also forget one important technical aspect of this test: that having white on the screen can lead to some of the light from the white screen area reaching the measuring instrument and creating an artificially high reading for the black (a problem called veiling glare, which produces very large measurement errors that lead to erroneous conclusions).

We avoid this by using a special black Duvatyne mask to block the white areas of the display; any light that reaches the measuring device has come directly from the center target on the screen; not from the surrounding area on the screen.

Wells thats televisioninfo flawed way of testing .ANSI methods gives you good idea in both plasma and lcd since in plasma its means 50% of the checks are white which results in ABL kicking in and you will get the idea of what level of variations you can see.
LCD can easily win a full On/Off contrast at the 150 to 200cd/m2 even ifs its a not a local dimming tv,for instance samsung edge lit lcd dim the backlight if its sees a video or image with majority being of black content.
ANSI ensures that the dimming effect doesn't takes place.

 

[longshanks]

Wells thats televisioninfo flawed way of testing .

It is quite easy to say something is flawed when you dont like it or when its not favoring or justifying your purchase. Television info works with Display Mate so i am more inclined to their way of testing unless some one(a trusted calibrator or website) proves otherwise with a valid backing.

ANSI checkerboard has been for a very long time, like television info says there is possibility of bleeding and the measurement of whites getting in place of blacks so a high artificial black measurement might be achieved, this effect is prone to benefit lCD's more than plasma.

that's why they do this :



We avoid this by using a special black Duvatyne mask to block the white areas of the display; any light that reaches the measuring device has come directly from the center target on the screen; not from the surrounding area on the screen.


http://sensing.konicaminolta.us/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Television_Info.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duvetyne

Their explanation is pretty straight forward and very clear.

 

[avmaxfan]

Adder, bro please stop arguing with this guy. Its sickening reading all these posts here.
You can never make him understand facts, what more to say when he doesn't even know that Sony's X-Reality Pro uses Dual Core processing and not for some smart TV crap but for video processing.

There is no other manufacturer that has a more advanced video processing engine than Sony's X Reality PRO at this moment.

If nobody replies to him, he will go away. So please I request you all again not to reply to his gibberish talks and just ignore his posts. Who even cares what he believes. He ain't no expert or a big reviewer that we need a nod from to buy Televisions.

 

[longshanks]

what more to say when he doesn't even know that Sony's X-Reality Pro uses Dual Core processing and not for some smart TV crap but for video processing.

philips with triple core in 2008 ,really .Only samsung tvs use a dual core processor but its only to handle the "smart tv applications" in their 2012 tvs.

what brilliance, and top of that the avmaxfan Einstein assumed that i said some where that Sony is not using dual core in their current range.:lol:

Every manuacturer uses dual core processors these days,panasonic,LG,Samsung,Chinese Crappy Philips and what not.

Philips 8000 series
Picture/Display
Display: LED Full HD
Diagonal screen size: 46 inch / 117 cm
Panel resolution: 1920x1080p
3D: 3D Max Clarity 700, 2 Player Full Screen
Gaming*, 3D Depth adjustment, 2D to 3D
conversion
Aspect ratio: 16:9
Brightness: 450 cd/m
Dynamic screen contrast: 500.000:1
Picture enhancement: Perfect Pixel HD Engine, ISF
image calibration, 800 Hz Perfect Motion Rate,
Micro Dimming
CPU
Processor type: Dual-Core
http://download.p4c.philips.com/files/4/46pfl8007k_12/46pfl8007k_12_pss_aen.pdf






Spoken like a true showroom sales boy, were you hear them say "this is the best" with no hint of proof or common sense.

I remember this same Einstein posting a different model in another thread and blindly claiming that is the same model what the OP wanted, then finally running away while people laughed their asses off.

http://www.hifivision.com/television/24974-supposedly-best-3d-tv-date.html#post351495

 

[avmaxfan]

Mods, I request you to lock this thread now as the OP has decided on which TV he is going to buy. This thread is now being used for nothing but baseless arguments and brand bashing.

@OP

When you buy the TV, you can create another thread if you wish to post pictures and your review. Thanks

 

[adder]

It is quite easy to say something is flawed when you dont like it or when its not favoring or justifying your purchase. Television info works with Display Mate so i am more inclined to their way of testing unless some one(a trusted calibrator or website) proves otherwise with a valid backing.

Full On and Full OF contrast is nothing new either,many websites have been using it.Whats flawed about television info is that they are using max backlight settings.Most calibirators and reviews sites work with display mate.

If you post in AVS forums about how they measured i repeat again they would LTAF .

ANSI checkerboard has been for a very long time, like television info says there is possibility of bleeding and the measurement of whites getting in place of blacks so a high artificial black measurement might be achieved, this effect is prone to benefit lCD's more than plasma.

There is a possibility but HDtvtestuk tells both the ANSI and full On and OFF contrast.

 

[adder]

what brilliance, and top of that the avmaxfan Einstein assumed that i said some where that Sony is not using dual core in their current range.:lol:

Every manuacturer uses dual core processors these days,panasonic,LG,Samsung,Chinese Crappy Philips and what not.

Philips 8000 series
Picture/Display
Display: LED Full HD
Diagonal screen size: 46 inch / 117 cm
Panel resolution: 1920x1080p
3D: 3D Max Clarity 700, 2 Player Full Screen
Gaming*, 3D Depth adjustment, 2D to 3D
conversion
Aspect ratio: 16:9
Brightness: 450 cd/m
Dynamic screen contrast: 500.000:1
Picture enhancement: Perfect Pixel HD Engine, ISF
image calibration, 800 Hz Perfect Motion Rate,
Micro Dimming
CPU
Processor type: Dual-Core
http://download.p4c.philips.com/files/4/46pfl8007k_12/46pfl8007k_12_pss_aen.pdf

You said philips used a triple core processor to be precise .

Sony is not concentrating on smart tv features has much as samsung or lg or for that matter panasonic.

Sony uses the X-reality chip/ processor(no public info on how many cores it has) and second XCA7 chip which makes up the X-reality PRO.

 

[longshanks]

If you post in AVS forums about how they measured i repeat again they would LTAF .

Why do i care what AVS says when display mate is considered reliable almost by everyone.

When you say television info back light setting is flawed i need some backing with proof which says otherwise.

You said philips used a triple core processor to be precise .
.

to more be more precise, i even posted a link. Not just that guy, i also read this in another forum supported with spec, i will have to find that.

That LCD TV has a very very good picture processor. Way ahead of the other LCD processors. Triple core processor to deal with motion judder and to remove halo effect. Philips call it Naturo motion.

I should know since I was involved in the development/testing of that processor

Buying a Flat Panel Display (LCD/Plasma/LED etc) - Page 182 - Team-BHP

 

[adder]

Why do i care what AVS says when display mate is considered reliable almost by everyone.

When you say television info back light setting is flawed i need some backing with proof which says otherwise.

Where exactly did display mate endorse their testing method.Display mate has tons of clients including Cnet USA,PC magazine.
Its televisoninfo that says they worked with display mate.

Its flawed alright,i have already explained over and over again,if you can't get it,thats your loss.

While there testing of tunnel contrast is great and also posting peak white fall of is also great ,since most don't tell about the peak whites which plasma fans don't like.
The way they measure black level and which results in their contrast ratio is flawed.

Here is just some of what people thing about televisioninfo
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1411654/favorite-tv-review-websites-and-why
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1409241/television-info-com-panasonic-st50-review#post_21993544
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1259721/is-televisioninfo-com-legit
Not sure what to make of televisioninfo.com

to more be more precise, i even posted a link. Not just that guy, i also read this in another forum supported with spec, i will have to find that.

Buying a Flat Panel Display (LCD/Plasma/LED etc) - Page 182 - Team-BHP

I don't buy that unless he shows some white papers.Can't take some one post as a facts for specs.

 

[longshanks]

Here is just some of what people thing about televisioninfo

I've been a member of AVS for too long and i know who is who and what happens there, so all the links are just some random member opinions with not much proof to back their claims and were just pissed that their favorite TV's were ranked lower.

From past experience of how trend changes in AVS, some day television info will be praised like god once their favorite televisions are rated well.

display mate says:

DisplayMate is the recognized worldwide standard for image and picture quality. Over 200 computer and video publications in 50 countries use DisplayMate for their editorial reviews, lab testing, and evaluations of video hardware.

but only lists a few most famous sites which are well known.

I don't buy that unless he shows some white papers.Can't take some one post as a facts for specs.

Sure, i don't buy any member's claim in any forum either unless it is backed by some white paper.

 

[adder]

Display mate is in a different league and televisioninfo.com is in a different group altogether.

Televisioninfo could well be praised one day ,but that won't happen anytime soon they better get some new reviewers/calibrators or they need new training to improve much further.
It doesn't matter if they use a KM CS-200 or any other tool,its how they utilize it.

 

[longshanks]

Display mate is in a different league and televisioninfo.com is in a different group altogether.

Does not make sense, what league? display mate has many clients and television info is one of them. it is that simple.

You should read one of display mate's comparison between LCD and Plasma. Yes i am pretty sure all most all people(expect for pro calibrators and sites that actually display data) who talk non sense about televisoninfo dont know squat about how to properly take measurements and given a chance they will commit wonderful blunders or run away and hide.

 

[adder]

Does not make sense, what league? display mate has many clients and television info is one of them. it is that simple.

Anyone with the money can buy a sports car(for eg from ferrari) ,but not all can race well.

Display mate is one company but just because televisioninfo uses display mate product doesn't make televisoninfo credible.I have said where they are wrong.

If televisoninfo did work closely with displaymate ,then displaymate should have put some info on this or atleast include them in the list of clients.

If you feel that the televisioninfo testing method is correct feel free to start a new thread just for it.

You should read one of display mate's comparison between LCD and Plasma. Yes i am pretty sure all most all people(expect for pro calibrators and sites that actually display data) who talk non sense about televisoninfo dont know squat about how to properly take measurements and given a chance they will commit wonderful blunders or run away and hide.

You should also read more reviews from credible review sites like HDtvtest.co.uk who have earned the reputation of being credible.There are hardly any bad comments about them.

Well whether not those people can take better measurements then televisoninfo is anyone's guess.

But there are lots of better reviews sites then televisioninfo.

 

[longshanks]

Just because display mate mentioned for 10-15 of their clients does not make their remaining 185 any less credible.

Many of these sites have been dissed in many AV forums in the past and i don't care about any of those threads.

HDtvtest.co.uk does not even tell how they test or what kind of methods they use in detail, so i am not going to believe them. television info gives all needed info how they measure and also they give all the required numbers.

Overall i don't buy television based on reviews, i rather try and review them in action and make a decision.

 

[adder]

Well people can judge both the website and i know which website they can vouch for.

I am out of this thread.