Norge Concerto Gold 1000 Review ( An underestimated Brand)

[alpha1]

I tried everything with norge. It lacks low volume bass for sure. Even I paired with Akai vitage book shelves with 10inch woofers but the bass goes down along with the volume. The circuit design itself is such its made keeping in mind the mid frequency particularly voice, so it lacks depth in low volume. A loudness on/off option might have solved the issue. Its the current which drive the heavier coil of woofer while reducing the volume along with the voltage the current also drop. Here the loudness circuit comes in handy holding the current from dropping.

Bass IS supposed to weaken at low volumes. This is how our ears work.
If the purpose of loudness on/off button is to increase the bass frequencies then it is quite wrong, because I can easily increase the bass using the equalizer knob for at least ±6 dB on Norge amps.
Loudness on/off button will not really solve this issue, please see the reason below.

Every thing is fine with Norge except one drawback they are not providing Loudness on/off option. Which is a must for listening in low volume. This provide low frequency boost with a nice thump. I spoke to Mr Laxman he bluntly said no way.

First of all, we all need to be aware of something called as Equal loudness.

Equal-loudness contour - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Sound/eqloud.html

Simply speaking what it means is that ear is extra sensitive to 2-5 kHz spectrum and thus even at lowest volume we are able to hear these.
And the ear is low sensitive to <1000 Hz and decreasing sensitivity with decreasing frequency.
So, in order to actually do loudness equalization one should have a very wide bandwidth low frequency boost that starts at 20 Hz and ends at 1000 Hz. High frequencies are not at all to be touched since whether it is low volume or high volume the responsiveness of ear doesn't change.
Most of the loudness buttons boost bass as well as treble and again, it is plain WRONG.

To use some numbers, what this means is that lets fix 80 dB/1000 Hz as the desired volume; which makes it 80 phons loudness. On this contour we see that the ears need 120dB at 20 Hz to experience the same loudness.

Now let's view the scenario at low volume say 40dB/1000 Hz = 40 phons loudness. On this contour, we can see that the ears need 100 dB at 20 Hz to feel the same loudness.

What this means is that the ear loses around 20 dB additionally at 20 Hz when we reduce the amp output by 40 dB, in other words 40 dB loss due to reduction in volume, and 20 dB loss due to reduction in sensitivity.

Now we can construct the loudness boost curve, for a 40 dB reduction in sound volume, we must boost all frequencies from 20 Hz to 1000 Hz, starting with 20 dB at 20 Hz and reducing to 0 dB at 1000 Hz (that means boosting bass as well as lower mids, and mids also to some extent).
Tell me how many "loudness on/off buttons" have you seen doing this?

 

[changappa]

Bass IS supposed to weaken at low volumes. This is how our ears work.
If the purpose of loudness on/off button is to increase the bass frequencies then it is quite wrong, because I can easily increase the bass using the equalizer knob for at least ±6 dB on Norge amps.
Loudness on/off button will not really solve this issue, please see the reason below.



First of all, we all need to be aware of something called as Equal loudness.

Equal-loudness contour - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Sound/eqloud.html

Simply speaking what it means is that ear is extra sensitive to 2-5 kHz spectrum and thus even at lowest volume we are able to hear these.
And the ear is low sensitive to <1000 Hz and decreasing sensitivity with decreasing frequency.
So, in order to actually do loudness equalization one should have a very wide bandwidth low frequency boost that starts at 20 Hz and ends at 1000 Hz. High frequencies are not at all to be touched since whether it is low volume or high volume the responsiveness of ear doesn't change.
Most of the loudness buttons boost bass as well as treble and again, it is plain WRONG.

To use some numbers, what this means is that lets fix 80 dB/1000 Hz as the desired volume; which makes it 80 phons loudness. On this contour we see that the ears need 120dB at 20 Hz to experience the same loudness.

Now let's view the scenario at low volume say 40dB/1000 Hz = 40 phons loudness. On this contour, we can see that the ears need 100 dB at 20 Hz to feel the same loudness.

What this means is that the ear loses around 20 dB additionally at 20 Hz when we reduce the amp output by 40 dB, in other words 40 dB loss due to reduction in volume, and 20 dB loss due to reduction in sensitivity.

Now we can construct the loudness boost curve, for a 40 dB reduction in sound volume, we must boost all frequencies from 20 Hz to 1000 Hz, starting with 20 dB at 20 Hz and reducing to 0 dB at 1000 Hz (that means boosting bass as well as lower mids, and mids also to some extent).
Tell me how many "loudness on/off buttons" have you seen doing this?

Agree. But I came to the conclusion with Norge is that its intentionally designed as such. By masking bass the mids sound amazing. In my case as I Said I am using a equalizer to enhance bass but the amp doesn't like it.

 

[changappa]

If that's the case I think u better change ur amp with something u find more appealing to your likings. I am satisfied with the mid oriented presentation of Norge concerto gold 1000, and whatever bass the amp is producing is fine for me. I use two sets of bookshelf speakers alternatively. Elac debut b5 and wharfedale evo 4.1. The Elac's are little better for bass but I use wharfedale's around 80% of time.

When I need extra bass in low volume I use Sound King amplifier it has the extra punch even in low volumes. I pushed a equalizer in between norge and the source still the amp doesn't like it it prefer to play solo

 

[changappa]

If you get a chance, try floor standers

I have floor standers each 4feet tall having woofer subwoofer and tweeter presently paired with norge. But low volume play back lacks that additional punch. I use a equalizer to enhance bass but amp doesn't like it. So bass richness i use sound king 9000 amp paired with akai vintage 3way bookshelves each with 10inch woofers

 

[availlyrics]

But low volume play back lacks that additional punch.

alpha1 explained perfectly​

Their are other ways to improve bass , but requires some soldering skills

 

[Manoj Nair]

Hi Manoj,

I am aware of brands that you are currently using, cosmic, pulz etc. In fact I have stayed some part of my life in Mumbai and even met some senior personnel from Pulz in 2007. I had started my Hi fi journey in 1985 with a Philips cassette Ampli deck AW729. Prior to that I used to have a small National Panasonic tape recorder. Then in 1991 I bought a combo of Philips cassette deck, Arphi equalizer(similar to the one in your system set up photograph), Arphi amplifier AA140 and Arphi super challenger speakers. In 2007 Nad integrated amp C325bee, Nad cd player C525bee and sonodyne towers Sonus 2605 and so on. Presently I have two amplifiers CA topaz am10 & Norge concerto gold 1000, two sets of bookshelf speakers Elac debut B5 and wharfedale evo 4.1 but I use Norge and Wharfedales combo most of the time. The sonic character of Norge is very much to my liking with very neutral sound. I had given description of my set in this same thread with two photographs on dec 9th, 2023. Have a look on that.

My honest observation about your set up - It is nice but slightly overdone. Maybe you like it this way. Wires need to be managed properly. I have used some wire management tools & techniques that has made my layout little systematic. As you have too many components the wire management will take lot of efforts and time but it can be done.

Hi
Thanks for the feedback.
I would like tonseek your advise on cable management .
Is it possible to what's app/ contact so that I can get some inputs from your end.

My What's app no is 9920288768

Thanks again
Manoj

 

[Vinay103]

Hi
Please mention price of Norge Concerto Gold 1000 amp ?
Thanks

16k or 17k

 

[Vinay103]

That chunky torroidal power supply is quite incredible at this price. Imported amps with that sort of supply are usually only the higher priced ones.

You may also give a try to Indian Xtreme audio..Delhi based guy assembled very neat and clean hifi amplifier.. claiming high quality components

 

[availlyrics]

I have heard good reviews about Indian Xtreme audio from non-affiliated youtubers, just be cautious about transformer winding material. It should be copper and not aluminum

 

[COOLDUDE7808]

Purchased Norge on July 01st 2024 from Hammersmith Estate . Laxman who has been with Norge for a long time gave a good demo of all the amps . Norge 2060 , Norge Mosfet 2000 and Concerto Gold 1000 paired with Norge Bookshelves and Floor standers .

I liked the Concerto Gold 1000 for the balanced sound in all the frequencies . Norge 2000 was more on the laidback/warm side.

Listening to it with Marantz CD6005 and old CD5001 paired with Quad S2 Speakers . SQ is quite good , I am getting sufficient bass when paired with CD 5001 and relatively less with CD 6005 . Vocals are good and Treble is quite good (can be better) .

There has been a change in specs - Its 82 at 8 ohms instead of 92 at 8 ohms earlier . 100 at 4 ohms remains the same .

Also I noticed that Headphones option is no longer there .

After a long time I am getting to hear a sound which sort of engages you . It draws the listener into it . My earlier Marantz systems with the exception of PM7001 did not have this quality . As you go up the ladder in terms of spending the sound tends to be clinical and warm , musicality of the system goes down .

Details , separation of instruments , Clarity etc are also quite good . The amp seems to have enough power and can go quite loud without distortion in vocals or instruments .

In my discussion with Laxman when I shared my issues with Marantz amps , he did mention -
that all Imported amps use parts which are not locally available , so servicing from outside their service center is not advisable . Something which I am experiencing now . They have a set of cards/boards which are programmed using software , so its difficult for others to figure out what to do in terms of changing or repairing the boards . Norge uses only analog components , So in the future servicing even at a local level is possible

 

[Shammi Dang]

Purchased Norge on July 01st 2024 from Hammersmith Estate . Laxman who has been with Norge for a long time gave a good demo of all the amps . Norge 2060 , Norge Mosfet 2000 and Concerto Gold 1000 paired with Norge Bookshelves and Floor standers .

I liked the Concerto Gold 1000 for the balanced sound in all the frequencies . Norge 2000 was more on the laidback/warm side.

Listening to it with Marantz CD6005 and old CD5001 paired with Quad S2 Speakers . SQ is quite good , I am getting sufficient bass when paired with CD 5001 and relatively less with CD 6005 . Vocals are good and Treble is quite good (can be better) .

There has been a change in specs - Its 82 at 8 ohms instead of 92 at 8 ohms earlier . 100 at 4 ohms remains the same .

Also I noticed that Headphones option is no longer there .

After a long time I am getting to hear a sound which sort of engages you . It draws the listener into it . My earlier Marantz systems with the exception of PM7001 did not have this quality . As you go up the ladder in terms of spending the sound tends to be clinical and warm , musicality of the system goes down .

Details , separation of instruments , Clarity etc are also quite good . The amp seems to have enough power and can go quite loud without distortion in vocals or instruments .

In my discussion with Laxman when I shared my issues with Marantz amps , he did mention -
that all Imported amps use parts which are not locally available , so servicing from outside their service center is not advisable . Something which I am experiencing now . They have a set of cards/boards which are programmed using software , so its difficult for others to figure out what to do in terms of changing or repairing the boards . Norge uses only analog components , So in the future servicing even at a local level is possible

Very nice. I am very sure you will love this amp more and more as time passes by.

 

[COOLDUDE7808]

@pakecc - You can check previous posts for @Shammi Dang's Norge pic which has Headphones option

I had biwired my speakers . Laxman told me that for Speaker protection to work , I have to connect Speakers to LF and not to HF or Biwire them Protection circuit works that way in Norge . Sharing this for the benefit of all Norge Owners .

 

[Shammi Dang]

@pakecc - You can check previous posts for @Shammi Dang's Norge pic which has Headphones option

I had biwired my speakers . Laxman told me that for Speaker protection to work , I have to connect Speakers to LF and not to HF or Biwire them Protection circuit works that way in Norge . Sharing this for the benefit of all Norge Owners .



View attachment 86076

Thanks for sharing the info on how the protection circuit works. Fortunately for me I always use the lower part (L.F) of the speaker binding post for connecting wires, terminated with banana plugs. And just for info part on the headphone socket, even it does not work in my amp. As such I never felt a use of it as using the headphone jack in an big amp was never convenient for me. I use a Fosi audio SK1 headphone amplifier for driving open back headphones, review is there on this forum. (In this pic the visible change that I notice is colour of LED light in the switch, mine is green)

 

[Giri]

I just purchased the Norge Concerto gold 1000 about 2 -3 weeks ago. I use it with my bookshelf speakers Yamaha NS333. Last week I also got the Fiio BTA30 PRO, to connect to the Norge amp.
The Norge amp is really good! Earlier I was using my Basic Yamaha AVR ( part of YHT-299 HTiB package) with my bookshelf speakers. Believe me, the difference is night and day! the Norge Amp is really that good and also excellent price point! Their service is also very good.
I got a piece with broken leg of the amp( must have happened in transit). Mr.Laxman promptly couriered me the legs, along with screw and FeviKwik.! I would highly recommend Norge Concerto Gold !

I have a Norge 2060 amp with Md.75 Bookshelf Speakers. Recently, I bought the Fiio BTA30 PRO to enhance my Norge setup. Could you please advise on the input/output options you're using from the BTA30 to the Norge, and any cable recommendations? I tried playing music from the Spotify app on my iPhone through the BTA30 to the Norge, but the sound quality isn't that great. I think I might be missing the right connections or good cables. Thanks in advance.

 

[Shammi Dang]

I have a Norge 2060 amp with Md.75 Bookshelf Speakers. Recently, I bought the Fiio BTA30 PRO to enhance my Norge setup. Could you please advise on the input/output options you're using from the BTA30 to the Norge, and any cable recommendations? I tried playing music from the Spotify app on my iPhone through the BTA30 to the Norge, but the sound quality isn't that great. I think I might be missing the right connections or good cables. Thanks in advance.

I cannot say anything on the input method as you have to see the sound settings of iphone. I will however share something that will throw some light on similar problem I faced. I have a Amazon fire stick 4K for playing amazon music and all other Tv apps and that is connected to sony 4K tv. Somehow the audio response from the firestick for amazon music app is very dull, also applies to few other apps, So I compared with another android based Tv device ( Mi box 4K). There was a day and night difference in audio response of using two different devices all other aspects remaining same like dac, digital & analog cables, amp and spks. I am talking all wired connections over here, no Bluetooth. Tv is connected to the Dac (Schiit modi 3) via a toslink-spdif cable(MX brand) and from Dac to Amp (Norge gold 1000) with RCA cable (profigold). I tried all possible sound setting in Firestick but result was same. Now I am using both devices, Fire stick for watching Tv apps, audio through Tv & subwoofer and for music apps I am using Mi box. Somehow inconvenient but that's the only solution I found out.

Another input I like to share is one old media player (WD live Tv hub) that I have . When I use this device routed through TV with help of hdmi cable and rest of the sound chain same as in case of Mi box or fire stick the sound is much more lively and vibrant, that means the output signal from this device is very strong. And the fun part is I play only digital stored files like mp3, flac that are considered much inferior to the one available on modern music apps like Spotify, prime music etc.

Solution/experiment - So try connecting another device (other mobile/pc) with same app and play same song through the same chain.

Regarding cables - It will not make a day and night difference even if you use highly expensive cables as this cable gimmick works best in very high end imported systems or when ppl are just finicky on buying anything good from India, perceived good quality when one pays exorbitant. Try to buy decent (mid priced) cables from reputed manufacturers, check on amazon or similar places for some good brands or Hi-fi mart website, they have some decent cables by DAC brand. I am using majority of cables by MX (mdr electronics), Indian brand. Chances are your cables are already good enough so first work on the main problem of low signal strength.

 

[DB1989]

I cannot say anything on the input method as you have to see the sound settings of iphone. I will however share something that will throw some light on similar problem I faced. I have a Amazon fire stick 4K for playing amazon music and all other Tv apps and that is connected to sony 4K tv. Somehow the audio response from the firestick for amazon music app is very dull, also applies to few other apps, So I compared with another android based Tv device ( Mi box 4K). There was a day and night difference in audio response of using two different devices all other aspects remaining same like dac, digital & analog cables, amp and spks. I am talking all wired connections over here, no Bluetooth. Tv is connected to the Dac (Schiit modi 3) via a toslink-spdif cable(MX brand) and from Dac to Amp (Norge gold 1000) with RCA cable (profigold). I tried all possible sound setting in Firestick but result was same. Now I am using both devices, Fire stick for watching Tv apps, audio through Tv & subwoofer and for music apps I am using Mi box. Somehow inconvenient but that's the only solution I found out.

Get rid of the Amazon Firestick and MiTV box and get the latest Apple TV 4k. Not only does it have much better SQ, even the PQ is much better. As an added bonus, it comes with a significantly superior remote and the interface is way snappier.

I have a Norge 2060 amp with Md.75 Bookshelf Speakers. Recently, I bought the Fiio BTA30 PRO to enhance my Norge setup. Could you please advise on the input/output options you're using from the BTA30 to the Norge, and any cable recommendations? I tried playing music from the Spotify app on my iPhone through the BTA30 to the Norge, but the sound quality isn't that great. I think I might be missing the right connections or good cables. Thanks in advance.

What was your source and dac for playing music prior to the BTA30?

 

[Giri]

Get rid of the Amazon Firestick and MiTV box and get the latest Apple TV 4k. Not only does it have much better SQ, even the PQ is much better. As an added bonus, it comes with a significantly superior remote and the interface is way snappier.


What was your source and dac for playing music prior to the BTA30?

Thanks for asking. I am having VU TV with Fire Stick, took audio out (3.5) from VU TV and gave that as an input to Norge Amp and watching TV and movies. Around 14 years back when i bought Norge setup, I used to have Philips basic DVD player in which use to rent DVD's and watch movies with great sound quality. Later I bought PS4 with the idea that kids can play games and i can use that as DVD player for watching movies which never happened.

Currently i have VU TV, Fire Stick, PS4, BTA30 and Norge amp and speakers. Any recommendations will be highly appreciated to make best use of the existing components to have better audio experience in terms of movies or music.

 

[Giri]

I cannot say anything on the input method as you have to see the sound settings of iphone. I will however share something that will throw some light on similar problem I faced. I have a Amazon fire stick 4K for playing amazon music and all other Tv apps and that is connected to sony 4K tv. Somehow the audio response from the firestick for amazon music app is very dull, also applies to few other apps, So I compared with another android based Tv device ( Mi box 4K). There was a day and night difference in audio response of using two different devices all other aspects remaining same like dac, digital & analog cables, amp and spks. I am talking all wired connections over here, no Bluetooth. Tv is connected to the Dac (Schiit modi 3) via a toslink-spdif cable(MX brand) and from Dac to Amp (Norge gold 1000) with RCA cable (profigold). I tried all possible sound setting in Firestick but result was same. Now I am using both devices, Fire stick for watching Tv apps, audio through Tv & subwoofer and for music apps I am using Mi box. Somehow inconvenient but that's the only solution I found out.

Another input I like to share is one old media player (WD live Tv hub) that I have . When I use this device routed through TV with help of hdmi cable and rest of the sound chain same as in case of Mi box or fire stick the sound is much more lively and vibrant, that means the output signal from this device is very strong. And the fun part is I play only digital stored files like mp3, flac that are considered much inferior to the one available on modern music apps like Spotify, prime music etc.

Solution/experiment - So try connecting another device (other mobile/pc) with same app and play same song through the same chain.

Regarding cables - It will not make a day and night difference even if you use highly expensive cables as this cable gimmick works best in very high end imported systems or when ppl are just finicky on buying anything good from India, perceived good quality when one pays exorbitant. Try to buy decent (mid priced) cables from reputed manufacturers, check on amazon or similar places for some good brands or Hi-fi mart website, they have some decent cables by DAC brand. I am using majority of cables by MX (mdr electronics), Indian brand. Chances are your cables are already good enough so first work on the main problem of low signal strength.

Thanks a lot for the detailed inputs, really need to spend some time to understand and experiment the same

 

[Shammi Dang]

Get rid of the Amazon Firestick and MiTV box and get the latest Apple TV 4k. Not only does it have much better SQ, even the PQ is much better. As an added bonus, it comes with a significantly superior remote and the interface is way snappier.


What was your source and dac for playing music prior to the BTA30?

Thanks for the advice DB1989. Even I was thinking on the same lines just few days back. I will buy apple tv 4k in times to come.

 

[DB1989]

Currently i have VU TV, Fire Stick, PS4, BTA30 and Norge amp and speakers. Any recommendations will be highly appreciated to make best use of the existing components to have better audio experience in terms of movies or music.

Use optical out (toslink) from your TV to the BTA30 - should be much better than bluetooth (especially if your TV does not support the latest hi def BT codecs). Will wait for your revert