Passive pre with Ayon CD1

[arj]

Hi Pratimbayal, Congrats on the setup !!
you have matched up your speakers well with an amp..and Asit's "certificate" is the proof of the pudding
i was also considering the nighthawk or a Graham Slee phono seriously ..but went for Lirens phono as i did not want anything with a focus on detail as most of my LPs are old. I do think Malvai's Review on its comparison nailed it.

 

[Asit]

Hi arj,

As I said in my detailed write-up, my initial impressions are good, except for a little reservation about the upper bass lower mid region. Whether this is due to the amp not fully burnt in or lack of ideal matching between the amp and the speakers or something else, it hard to say at this point. The 6moons review, however, had the exact same speakers as one of the two sets of speakers.

I am a bit surprised that nobody has commented on my observation on the imaging which I found situated (in space) lower than the position of the listener. Pratim can say if this has changed with more running in.

BTW, How's your TT set-up doing? I am finally thinking of getting a new one, but I'll have to settle for a budget one or slightly better, because a lot of expenditure is coming up this year because of our move to a new place and the setting up of the place. Let me know if somebody wants to upgrade.

Regards.

 

[arj]

Hi arj,

As I said in my detailed write-up, my initial impressions are good, except for a little reservation about the upper bass lower mid region. Whether this is due to the amp not fully burnt in or lack of ideal matching between the amp and the speakers or something else, it hard to say at this point. The 6moons review, however, had the exact same speakers as one of the two sets of speakers.

I am a bit surprised that nobody has commented on my observation on the imaging which I found situated (in space) lower than the position of the listener. Pratim can say if this has changed with more running in.

BTW, How's your TT set-up doing? I am finally thinking of getting a new one, but I'll have to settle for a budget one or slightly better, because a lot of expenditure is coming up this year because of our move to a new place and the setting up of the place. Let me know if somebody wants to upgrade.

Regards.

Hi Asit, I did notice your mention of Imaging below the plane of speakers. once broken in playing around with the placement could give the results of getting back into the plane ..maybe by slight tipping down of the speakers (provided the floor is not too reflecting). but yes need to wait for the breakin.

Have been slightly "Off" music the last 2 months as i was mostly out of the country and too busy at work due to year end etc..anyway have got a decent collection of Vinyl picked up from some used record stores in the US last month so have to get around to playing them now.

My lenco is still Unmodded but after going thru their forums, small isolation /cleaning tweaks do make it sound good..Virens phono has added a lot of Body to the sound and yes i can see why Vinyl is so well regarded although have not realized its true potential as small things like tone arm setup /cartridge alignment are so difficult to get right for someone who does not just know enough !!. So my CD rig is sounding a lot better still.

But got some nice Furutech connectors and VH audio cables with me..so will be experimenting with power for some more time as and when i get the time !

all the best on TTs..waiting game is the best way forward. do connect with Rajiv in this forum, I found him a great help for not just advice but also leads.

 

[pratimbayal]

Hi Pratimbayal, Congrats on the setup !!
you have matched up your speakers well with an amp..and Asit's "certificate" is the proof of the pudding
i was also considering the nighthawk or a Graham Slee phono seriously ..but went for Lirens phono as i did not want anything with a focus on detail as most of my LPs are old. I do think Malvai's Review on its comparison nailed it.

Apart from SQ, "gain " for my passive pre is another major reason to go for Nighthawk phono. Also I had the opportunity to test this with my setup

Thanks

 

[pratimbayal]

Hi All

At last added Nighthwak F-117 phonostage in my set up. Excelent phono stage . There has been a substantial alround improvement specially in the sound stage and imaging. I am very happy with this phono - very good product from Ray Samuels. A long term upgrade for me.

Cheers
Pratim

 

[myriad]

Hi All

At last added Nighthwak F-117 phonostage in my set up. Excelent phono stage . There has been a substantial alround improvement specially in the sound stage and imaging. I am very happy with this phono - very good product from Ray Samuels. A long term upgrade for me.

Cheers
Pratim

Congrats Pratim!!
Now you are done with a great phonostage, it's time for a TT upgrade

 

[pratimbayal]

Thanks Mr. Vasu

It was a very easy decision when I had the opportunity to test your nighthawk in my set up .

And the TT upgrade ........

My mind is fighting with my heart all time now a days to find the answer.

Let see...

Pratim

 

[pratimbayal]

Hi Friends

An update on Kismet power amplifier- this is turning out to be a very high quality amplifier with time.

Last saturday , I took my Kismet and the passive pre to Asit's house for an auditioning - we were planning over a long time. Asit , his wife and his son -all gave an warm welcome . With an enthusiastic effort from all four of us ( Asit , his wife , his son and myself ) we paired the amp with Asit's Canton karat 60 speaker. We started playing music almost immediately - with some CD that I carried followed by some CD from Asit's collection . What a Sound !

Music was live that all I can say in short.

What I immediately noticed is a huge soundstage , perfect imaging , tremendous musicality flowing out through the system. And what an excellent performence by those 21 years old speaker pair!

Myself and Asit was changing the sweet spot among ourself frequently.

Asit also was extremely delighted and happy from the outcome and he also felt the same improvements as above . Sound was extremely musical. And the low frequency limitation was not there at all.

We did not talk much about gear . Asit started talking about music. We were playing some film music, Indian classical and some wonderfull western albums( keeping the post short -so not going by name ) .

Surprisingly - with all solid state electronics ( CDP was CA 740C) there was absolutely no glare- Asit observed it first.


We ultimately ended that day with Asit singing few lines of classical vocal- to me that was another superb experience.The enviornment truely turned musical .

Over all - that afternoon I experienced how good gears , paired well , can present only music , taking themselves(gears ) out of all yor senses.

That was my best audiotioning experinec till date . After coming back to my home late in the evening , I set up the amp and other electronics to my speaker- I was getting around 80% of my afternoon experince . May be some time down the line will be changing the speaker but not urgently. Or my room acoustic need to be corrected.

Asit called me next day and agian expressed his happiness about the amp and suggested there would be further improvements after 500 hours and even after 1000 hours ( at present it is 250+ ) - I also agree with this.

The way this amp performed - could easily be compared with much costly and high quality amp as was mentioned in the 6 moon review.


Cheers
Pratim

 

[sidvee]

Hi Friends

An update on Kismet power amplifier- this is turning out to be a very high quality amplifier with time.

Last saturday , I took my Kismet and the passive pre to Asit's house for an auditioning - we were planning over a long time. Asit , his wife and his son -all gave an warm welcome . With an enthusiastic effort from all four of us ( Asit , his wife , his son and myself ) we paired the amp with Asit's Canton karat 60 speaker. We started playing music almost immediately - with some CD that I carried followed by some CD from Asit's collection . What a Sound !

Music was live that all I can say in short.

What I immediately noticed is a huge soundstage , perfect imaging , tremendous musicality flowing out through the system. And what an excellent performence by those 21 years old speaker pair!

Myself and Asit was changing the sweet spot among ourself frequently.

Asit also was extremely delighted and happy from the outcome and he also felt the same improvements as above . Sound was extremely musical. And the low frequency limitation was not there at all.

We did not talk much about gear . Asit started talking about music. We were playing some film music, Indian classical and some wonderfull western albums( keeping the post short -so not going by name ) .

Surprisingly - with all solid state electronics ( CDP was CA 740C) there was absolutely no glare- Asit observed it first.


We ultimately ended that day with Asit singing few lines of classical vocal- to me that was another superb experience.The enviornment truely turned musical .

Over all - that afternoon I experienced how good gears , paired well , can present only music , taking themselves(gears ) out of all yor senses.

That was my best audiotioning experinec till date . After coming back to my home late in the evening , I set up the amp and other electronics to my speaker- I was getting around 80% of my afternoon experince . May be some time down the line will be changing the speaker but not urgently. Or my room acoustic need to be corrected.

Asit called me next day and agian expressed his happiness about the amp and suggested there would be further improvements after 500 hours and even after 1000 hours ( at present it is 250+ ) - I also agree with this.

The way this amp performed - could easily be compared with much costly and high quality amp as was mentioned in the 6 moon review.


Cheers
Pratim

Nice to read your experience Pratim. I agree with you that Odyssey amps. are superlative. Enjoy,
Cheers
Sid

 

[Asit]

Hi folks,
I was waiting for Pratim to write something first, because his happiness is the most important.

I agree fully with whatever Pratim has written on the Kismet amp. Actually I'd go one step further and say, for the money it is a steal. This is my honest opinion.

I can only imagine what the sound would be like if we had a better source, for example, Pratim's Ayon CD1 player. With my ordinary CDP (CA 740c), the sound was smooth, musical with wonderful tonality, clarity and huge soundstage and pinpointed imaging. As Pratim said, there was no SS glare, harshness or edginess in the sound. Any tube lover would also like the sound, I think.

I was so happy with the musicality and overall experience that till now I am sort of dazed by the whole experience.

Regards

 

[odyssey]

Thanks Pratim and Asit
It always makes me happy to know that our customers enjoy and value our products.
Pratim, on the Kismet that you have - its already ahead of the 6moons Kismet - though you have a stereo version and the 6moons is a monoblock version. While overall the monos should sound better, the stereo version is not the stock one.
Asit is correct in that the sound will continue to get better and smoother (with all the details) till the few hundred hour mark - possibly 1000 hour. You may also notice that keeping it on for a few hours and then playing the amp yields better sound. I know that there are people who do not believe in amp break-in and/or warmup - but the proof is in the pudding

As you rightly said, the amp should be sufficient to last you speaker upgrades should you decide to go down that path, for not forget everything and enjoy !!

cheers

 

[pratimbayal]

On the speaker upgrade - now I have a fair idea where things could be improved. Had the Canton Karat 60 been available today I could have bought it straight ( if with in budget) . However I have planned to have a dedicated room - lets see how things change with same set up. Will go for speaker upgrade after wards

Cheers

 

[AMITNOIDA]

Congrats Pratim for your new amp. Speaker upgrade is quickly down the lane I think. I always praise you for your pursuit for improvement.

Shortly, Canton speakers can be auditioned at Delhi also. After reading your posting I have now a strong desire to listen to Canton speaker.

Again thank you for your posting on listening experience at Asit's place.

Cheers

 

[Asit]

Pratim,

At the level of equipments you have now assembled, I think for any significant improvement of about 10%, you may have to spend perhaps double the amount on the particular component being upgraded. In addition, what sounds very good in my room may not necessarily turn out to be that good in your room. Having said that, I have had these speakers set up so far in 4 different rooms (in 4 different houses, in 3 continents, in all these 21 years, all rooms have been reasonably large), they never sounded horrible in any of these rooms.

Amit,

I have no idea about the current line of Canton speakers. I have not heard any of them. Vento is their current top of the line series, the Karat series comes next. I have a feeling (although I have read rave reviews for both these series), they would not come close to my speakers. You have to come and see these in person to understand their build quality, no modern speakers I have seen recently come anywhere near. My speakers were handmade and cost DM 2000 in 1989 in Germany (Cantons were and still are cheaper by far in Germany). They were at least about USD 2000 in 1989 in the US.

However, Canton currently has a reference line which may have similar quality (The Reference - Handmade by CANTON | HOME). These are also handmade. They are no doubt expensive, starting with the reference 9.2 small bookshelves at USD 2000 per speaker (USD 4000 for a pair). Some of the reference series speakers are reviewed very very well by stereophile and other reputed places. The series numbers go up like 9.2, 7.2, 5.2, 3.2 and 1.2. The 3.2 cost USD 15 K. Until recently, Canton had a Aluminum/Manganese diaphragm tweeter on all their speakers (including mine). Currently they have changed that to ceramic/Aluminum/ceramic sandwich dome tweeter. As I have already said, I have heard none of these.

I do not think any of the dealers would have the Canton reference series for demo. I doubt if they would have even the Vento or the current Karat series (the current Karat series has no connection with Karat 60 that I have, their build is very different). They may have the entry level GLE or Ergo series.

Regards.

 

[pratimbayal]

Hello freinds

Re-opened this thread after a longtime to share about an upgrade . Recently made a dedicated room for Audio. This room will also be my reading room. It is a 15.6/12.8/10 ft ( L/W/H) rectangular room( I got this ratio from net ) . There is a false ceiling , little furniture for seating, a cd rack , one book shelf ( more book shelf will be added ) a computer at this moment.


Speakers have been kept along the longer wall at 3.5' from back wall and 4' from the side walls , symetrically . So both the spearker are 7.5' apart . Listening them from around 6'/7' distance .

Improvement is huge and huge. Soundsatging, imaging , detailing , bass all are excellent. All I can say , the speakers are disappearing when ever I am playing a CD or LP. It is music only. A very much satisfying investment.


Now a days , I am unable to frequent the forum due to number of preoccupancies and for that communicate with forum freinds through pm and mobile . Thanks to all of them . Want to thank specially Sameer Kumar, Sangram and Asit for their guidence. The upgrade from a separate room, specially in my case since my previous listening place was imperfect , is beyond my imagination.

My suggestion to my freinds would be , if possible get a different room or make some cost effective room adjustment or treatment in the existing room - the upgrade might be better than changing to a better speaker .

Waiting for Asit and Myriad to visit my place to get their opinion.

Regards

 

[AMITNOIDA]

Congrats Pratim for your new dedicated Audio room. One question - why you have placed the speakers along the longer wall, any specific reason? May please share more about the false ceiling and other room treatment.

Actually, you noticed huge improvement due to backwall, which in your earlier placement didn't exist. Proper definition of the wall and regularity of the room is important.

My next visit to Kolkata may happen in April'12. Then dropping at your place is inevitable to see your audio room and to collect my Vinyl. Also, waiting for Asit to move to his new home. If it happens by that time then visit to his place is also a must.

 

[pratimbayal]

Amit

I kept the speakers along the longer wall following advise from Sangram and Asit. The design of the room was made like that from the begining. It is working fine for me . I donot know the exact reason but may becaiuse the speakers have more space in between.

The false ceiling was suggested by Sameer Kumar. It is "Speckle" from Insula - it is a fabulous material . After it was put in the ceiling in the empty room , it absorbed the echo completely with out killing the sound .


Apart from that I have not put any plaster of paris or putty on the wall , instead painted the was directly with weather coat ( with normal cement base and primary base) so the surface is relatively uneven. Sameer suggested to go with texture painting - but budget this time did not permit.


Also placed a big carpet on the floor.

Kept a book shelf at the first reflection point in one side. Will keep one more at the otherside and other at the back of the listener. The CD rack have been kept at the back of the listener .

I have a plan to put indoor plat and a Thick curtain
at the back of the speaker . Will make cost effective treatment only -will not spend much.

 

[square_wave]

What is the DIY passive preamp that you have ?

 

[sidvee]

Hello freinds

Re-opened this thread after a longtime to share about an upgrade . Recently made a dedicated room for Audio.

Congrats Pratim - This is the most important component in a system - unfortunately ignored by most.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[anm]

congrats Pratim! Not everyone has the luxury of creating a new room who live in metros and flats.