Power Amp - Do I really need it?

[Kumar442244]

Hello Fellow members, hope everyone is safe and sound and praying to come out of this unprecedented scenario soon.
Amid this, I managed to get my hands on to the relatively new Totem Rainmaker speakers for my primary/secondary setup. The initial impression is too good. I know its too early to judge as its just been 6 hrs of it playing in my room, but the signature, transparency and musicality looks promising.
The setup is pretty simple with peachtree doing amp and streaming duties along with these speakers. the specs says that these speakers are a bit of a tough ass to drive owing to 4 ohms impedance and 87 DB sensitivity, however, I actually felt that my 120 WPC class D was able to drive it comfortably.
What I have in my mind is following:-
Use Peachtree as preamp, streamer and DAC as its pre and DAC is really really good, and add a power amp (Preferably class AB) to enter into seperates. Not sure how much will i benefit on the sonic improvement by taking this route and hence asking folks here.
Has anyone tried using a peachtree as a preamp before with any power amp? if yes, please do share your experience.
Generically, if we ignore the above senario, will it make a difference in adding more power to the amp to drive totems more graciously?
Awaiting suggestions and advice.
would be great to hear some suggestions on the power amp as well.

 

[keith_correa]

The Decco125 puts out 120W at 8 ohms. At 4 ohms it puts out 230 watts!!!!! Besides, 87 dB can hardly be called a "tough ass" to drive even for lesser output amplifiers.
If you use the Peachtree as a preamp and use a power amp, yes, there will be a difference - but that will be mainly due to the nature and characteristics of the power amp which is to be expected.
By your own admission you find that the Peachtree can drive the Totems easily then why rock the boat? IMO, you're trying to find a solution to a non-existing problem.

 

[tuff]

Has anyone tried using a peachtree as a preamp before with any power amp? if yes, please do share your experience.

I have used the Decco65 as a preamp with Arcam Delta P90 and Crown XLS 1502. Worked great with crown, the arcam sounded warm.
also the decco 65 would not push as much past 1 o'clock, making me wonder if it was capable of doubling the watts X 4ohms.

 

[drkrack]

if you go by Technical numbers you don't need a power amplifier. The Fallacy and limitations of numbers is pretty well known in subjective audiophile world.
With 4 ohm nominal, 87db ( very near to my Maggies) ; you will be greatly benefitted by a good class AB power amplifier in my opinion.
There are 2 caveats, one - you'd need a power amp with at least 150wpc at 8 ohms and stable below 4 ohms, for you to appreciate the difference.
Two - as long as your pre remains Peachtree, you'd never unleash the full potential of the power amplifier. Because preamp to power amp synergy is quite important to get the best out of the combo.
If your budget permits, There's A excellent Cambridge Audio Pre / Power on HFV classifieds From bengaluru , that's a pretty good equipment. Ask for a home audition if possible and decide. Otherwise Crown XLS ( wallet friendly) is a good option too if you want to retain your Peachtree. You could consider other power amplifiers ( >150wpc) depending upon your budget.

 

[Kumar442244]

Thanks for insights folks, really appreciate it.
Wow, 3 replies and 3 different school of thoughts. Interesting.
@keith_correa I agree, on paper, peachtree seems pretty powerful and in a way it is, however, I have tested this side by side with a similar wattage class AB power amp, and these didnt seem as powerful as 120 WPC class AB. This could be the nature of topology may be. I know that I am rocking the boat in the calm sea, but that the only fun part in this hobby, isnt it?
@tuff thanks for the response, Crown XLS u mentioned is class D right? The whole idea of the proposed setup is to move away from class D.
@drkrack your apprehension on peachtree unable to do justice to a decent PA is concerning as I dont intend to spend on pre amp currently and may be 1-1.5 years down the line, will invest in a good Pre. In the meantime, which PA would you advice in the budget segment?
whats your take on crown being of that quality which matches Vidar? I remember you had a pair of Vidar. Did u move away from them? U also mentioned in one of the posts that they work best with mono. How would i fair if i try to get 1 for now and another as and when pocket permits?

 

[Kannan]

You can also push the boundaries by biamping the speakers.
Yes, a power amp can make a difference in dynamics. Though the Totem is 87db, its cone is a bit stiff to drive and it can take good amount of power.

But as @keith_correa suggests, if you are getting good sound of the Peachtree, then why go chasing, unless you can get to audition and buy.

 

[drkrack]

In the meantime, which PA would you advice in the budget segment?

Crown XLS 2502, give it at least 100 hrs burn in time, employ a better thicker power cable. It should go well with your class D preamp, comes with Robust 3 years warranty. You have enough time to decide on your better preamp and dedicated DAC before upgrading the power amplifier. Always audition & buy pre power together in my opinion. Other class AB you can look for FM aniket, Emotiva, Marantz, Audiolab, Vidar and Quad ones. I'm currently pretty happy with Parasound a21, if you get a good deal that's a good power amplifier.

whats your take on crown being of that quality which matches Vidar? I remember you had a pair of Vidar. Did u move away from them? U also mentioned in one of the posts that they work best with mono. How would i fair if i try to get 1 for now

Crown Sounded better than Single Vidar with magnepan speakers if my memory serves right. But 2xVidars is far better than any budget power amplifiers. It could be even better than my current Parasound a21. My contention is even if you get these power amplifiers (a21, 2xVidar) , you'd be limited by the performance of your Peachtree preamp. So, Another option is biamping with crown and Peachtree, crown having adjustable gain and low pass / high pass & band pass filters ; its more well suited for the purpose. It will definitely answer your question of whether you will be greatly benefitted by adding a power amplifier. You can sell it at a minimal loss even if it doesn't work out.

Don't repeat the mistakes what I did, Like buying a cheaper power amp ( I bought Norge Pre Power 2000) to compare with a decent integrated ( Onkyo Integra ) and concluding that power amplifiers and separates don't add anything to the SQ because my current integrated is good enough. I mean don't give a half hearted attempt. The Cambridge Audio Pre Power is a great option on HFV classifieds.

 

[raghupb]

@Kumar442244
Isn't the Peachtree the same amp to had brought to my home to compare Dalis vs KEF?
If so, why are you in a hurry to look for something different.
In my opinion, Peachtree has very good bass control (may be due to Class-D)
And its simplicity and musicality were more than adequate

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[Kumar442244]

@Kumar442244
Isn't the Peachtree the same amp to had brought to my home to compare Dalis vs KEF?
If so, why are you in a hurry to look for something different.
In my opinion, Peachtree has very good bass control (may be due to Class-D)
And its simplicity and musicality were more than adequate

Cheers,
Raghu

Yes Raghu, this is the same amp we heard at your place.
Just the itch to try some better amplification. But you are right, will wait to extract peachtree's full potentials and then think of other alternatives.

 

[Kumar442244]

You can also push the boundaries by biamping the speakers.
Yes, a power amp can make a difference in dynamics. Though the Totem is 87db, its cone is a bit stiff to drive and it can take good amount of power.

But as @keith_correa suggests, if you are getting good sound of the Peachtree, then why go chasing, unless you can get to audition and buy.

Agree Kannan, Will hold my horses till I get some really lucrative offer/option. Will try to improve things with resources at hand and then take further actions.
I saw one thread where u have sold almost new Totems, would you want to throw some light as to what was the reason of letting these go so soon?

 

[DB1989]

Crown XLS 2502, give it at least 100 hrs burn in time, employ a better thicker power cable. It should go well with your class D preamp, comes with Robust 3 years warranty. You have enough time to decide on your better preamp and dedicated DAC before upgrading the power amplifier. Always audition & buy pre power together in my opinion. Other class AB you can look for FM aniket, Emotiva, Marantz, Audiolab, Vidar and Quad ones. I'm currently pretty happy with Parasound a21, if you get a good deal that's a good power amplifier.


Crown Sounded better than Single Vidar with magnepan speakers if my memory serves right. But 2xVidars is far better than any budget power amplifiers. It could be even better than my current Parasound a21. My contention is even if you get these power amplifiers (a21, 2xVidar) , you'd be limited by the performance of your Peachtree preamp. So, Another option is biamping with crown and Peachtree, crown having adjustable gain and low pass / high pass & band pass filters ; its more well suited for the purpose. It will definitely answer your question of whether you will be greatly benefitted by adding a power amplifier. You can sell it at a minimal loss even if it doesn't work out.

Don't repeat the mistakes what I did, Like buying a cheaper power amp ( I bought Norge Pre Power 2000) to compare with a decent integrated ( Onkyo Integra ) and concluding that power amplifiers and separates don't add anything to the SQ because my current integrated is good enough. I mean don't give a half hearted attempt. The Cambridge Audio Pre Power is a great option on HFV classifieds.

Any suggestions on how to get the midrange fuller on a crown xls 1502. The mid-range seems to lack depth and body compared to my other class a/b integrateds (marantz SR6013 and pm6006). It feels like money down the sinker so far.

 

[Nagaraj S]

I'm currently pretty happy with Parasound a21,

@drkrack, what is the pre you are using with your A21? I too have an A21, and am looking to pair it with a pre. Currently, am using the Marantz SR6013 as a pre, but I think a dedicated one will be better. Thanks.

 

[Kannan]

Agree Kannan, Will hold my horses till I get some really lucrative offer/option. Will try to improve things with resources at hand and then take further actions.
I saw one thread where u have sold almost new Totems, would you want to throw some light as to what was the reason of letting these go so soon?

Those belonged to my friend. He purchased Totem Rainmaker, and was very happy with it, but within a month or so, he got to audition Dyn Audio Focus which he liked more with his Sansui amp. He purchased it and gave off the Totems. I posted for him as he was indisposed on travel abroad

 

[drkrack]

@drkrack, what is the pre you are using with your A21? I too have an A21, and am looking to pair it with a pre. Currently, am using the Marantz SR6013 as a pre, but I think a dedicated one will be better. Thanks.

I am Pairing A21 with Freya+. Both being on the Warm side of neutral , I had to optimise the SQ by Cable changes & tube rolling. It is working out well as of now, I tried Acoustic Portrait Swara earlier which made the bass all the more boomy. The non tube modes of Freya sound very good but without the tube goodness, so I think the limitations of Parasound are getting exposed. Probably I need to Upgrade the Parasound A21.

The mid-range seems to lack depth and body compared to my other class a/b integrateds (marantz SR6013 and pm6006).

Crown is generally flat, neutral, you can call it lifeless; everything depends upon preamp, speakers & room.
Being very Light, it gets Vibrated easily, Most of this distortion can be controlled easily. Use Amp isolation feet (Spikes worked, Half cut Balls Could work too), also Speaker cable Lifters or Dampners (a Smiley ball cut in Half).
Go for good tube preamp ( Not FX Audio tube 01 (JAN tubes may be better)), AP Swara did a good job.
Thicker Power Cable , and thicker interconnects (Cardas Golden Ref Worked out for me) Also the Murthys ICs. Thicker Speaker Cables work well too.

 

[DB1989]

I am Pairing A21 with Freya+. Both being on the Warm side of neutral , I had to optimise the SQ by Cable changes & tube rolling. It is working out well as of now, I tried Acoustic Portrait Swara earlier which made the bass all the more boomy. The non tube modes of Freya sound very good but without the tube goodness, so I think the limitations of Parasound are getting exposed. Probably I need to Upgrade the Parasound A21.


Crown is generally flat, neutral, you can call it lifeless; everything depends upon preamp, speakers & room.
Being very Light, it gets Vibrated easily, Most of this distortion can be controlled easily. Use Amp isolation feet (Spikes worked, Half cut Balls Could work too), also Speaker cable Lifters or Dampners (a Smiley ball cut in Half).
Go for good tube preamp ( Not FX Audio tube 01 (JAN tubes may be better)), AP Swara did a good job.
Thicker Power Cable , and thicker interconnects (Cardas Golden Ref Worked out for me) Also the Murthys ICs. Thicker Speaker Cables work well too.

Thanks! I'll try them out. I was contemplating the Schiit Freya+ or valhalla 2. However, I can't seem to find the Schiit Freya+ anywhere. How is your experience with them so far? Any and all leads would be much appreciated!

 

[audiodelic]

Im planning to pair my A21 with Freya S.

If your increasing the volume knob to gain more sound but only able to hear more distortion and you feel like turning the volume down then you need a poweramp, high current for anything under 90db should give you noticeable ease in handling the load. Headroom is everything, dynamics, cleaner sound at listenable volumes.