Pre-Amplifier upgrade

[captrajesh]

@OP, compared to the knowledge and experience of illustrious forum members who are participating in the thread including the OP, mine is at best that of a toddler but FWIW I put forward a suggestion purely based on my internet knowledge.

Have you considered Modwright Instruments? They have recently launched an integrated amp which has apparently received rave reviews.

 

[odyssey]

My experience is the opp, The cd-5s is quite different and a larger leap than it is between the 1 to the 2, no question about it, in any case, if you are not looking for a source upgrade it's fine, but thought I would chime in with the 5s leap

Cheers

 

[sidvee]

@OP, compared to the knowledge and experience of illustrious forum members who are participating in the thread including the OP, mine is at best that of a toddler but FWIW I put forward a suggestion purely based on my internet knowledge.

Have you considered Modwright Instruments? They have recently launched an integrated amp which has apparently received rave reviews.

Thanks capt. I tend to agree about the modwright, I used to own the swl 9.0se pre for about 3 years and they are good VFM, but one big issue - their resale values suck, so while the sound is good when it comes time to sell and upgrade you are looking at 30-40 % return at most.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[sidvee]

My experience is the opp, The cd-5s is quite different and a larger leap than it is between the 1 to the 2, no question about it, in any case, if you are not looking for a source upgrade it's fine, but thought I would chime in with the 5s leap

Cheers

Well I am sure you spent more time listening to the 5 than I did, so I will defer to your judgement, but I am certain that that will not sort my issue unless I address the pre and amp. pairing first and in any case, because I am slowly moving to the computer as a source I'd just as soon invest in a high end stand alone DAC down the road.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[sidvee]

Thanks for the suggestions thus far esteemed members - I will add atmasphere and Joule Electra to my list and consider the einstein as a stretch goal. BTW my system sounds great with the ARC LS26 as a pre (and as a $6k pre ought to sound) and I feel that I am not missing a whole lot, but I want to consider the option that something better, may exist if I increase my budget by 30-40%.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[murali]

A final word, if you don't mind. It is not the $$$ value that matters but your ultimate decision after auditioning at your home, which I presume you are going to do (I never did it!), should be to go for that one which gives you the impression that there is no preamp at all in the chain. That, to me, is the ultimate test a preamp should pass.

Good luck and all the best.
murali

 

[sidvee]

A final word, if you don't mind. It is not the $$$ value that matters but your ultimate decision after auditioning at your home, which I presume you are going to do (I never did it!), should be to go for that one which gives you the impression that there is no preamp at all in the chain. That, to me, is the ultimate test a preamp should pass.

Good luck and all the best.
murali

Thanks Murali - I agree that the $$$ value is not really a measure and consequently my selection includes pre's starting at $3750 (for the Ayre) and upwards. As far as auditioning at home, I don't think that is going to happen, as a few of these don't even have dealers in India. I plan to audition most of these during an upcoming trip to US and will have to take call using the dealer's set up.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[rikhav]

Thanks Murali - I agree that the $$$ value is not really a measure and consequently my selection includes pre's starting at $3750 (for the Ayre) and upwards. As far as auditioning at home, I don't think that is going to happen, as a few of these don't even have dealers in India. I plan to audition most of these during an upcoming trip to US and will have to take call using the dealer's set up.
Cheers,
Sid

Hi Sid
Dont you think it will be a little difficult on deciding the pre with the dealer's setup specially when you already have a pre which is working quiet good for you

I am not as experienced as you but for me it would be really difficult to judge little changes in sound specially when the whole setup would be new for you.

 

[murali]

Having got wet, there is no point in holding back and get the head immersed!

I also, once upon a time, thought about such "little noticeable" changes one could expect in upgrading. Later, with enough research and talking to knowledgeable people, and most important, analysing all that with my own small brain, I concluded about the futility in auditioning in one's own setup. Unlike in US or other places, we don't have that privilege in our country where very little is available in the quest for real high-end stuff (I am not saying audiophile). Once I had the money to spend and set up my first system with a reasonable outlay, I acknowledged the pleasure that brings in and got the first glimpse of what a really good system means. I have done some upgrades after that, moving into Ayre C-5, ARC Ref3, Aesthetix Atlas, Vandy Quatro, but still have the older VTL 5.5, Ayre V-5 and Vandy 2Ce (only the Arcam CDP is missing) which I sometimes listen to not to forget with adequate modesty where it all started.

That is life.
murali

 

[sidvee]

Hi Sid
Dont you think it will be a little difficult on deciding the pre with the dealer's setup specially when you already have a pre which is working quiet good for you

I am not as experienced as you but for me it would be really difficult to judge little changes in sound specially when the whole setup would be new for you.

In a sense you are right Rikhav - a home audition is the best way - but in India it is next to impossible. In many instances, Dealers don't even stock items you are going to buy, so you have to audition elesewhere (in some other country or audio show) and then have the dealer order it for you against a certain advance payment or payment assurance - and I understand that economics is at play here for the dealer to survive - so nothing against dealers for this practice, it just means that us enthusiasts will have to work harder for our gratification. In these circumstances the best option is to try and audition with similar equipment and similar room size. Fortunately I have a dealer friend whom I patronized frequently in Detroit area, who also is the local Harbeth dealer, so I am going to try and see if I can audition said preamps in his demo. setup which has a room and some components (incl. the speaker which IMO is a crtitical comp.) roughly similar to mine and with my music. Also I plan to sell off my ARC on Audiogon so I will take it with me for comparison sake.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[rikhav]

Hi Sid
Having the same speaker and pre as you have in your home setup is going to be a big positive
All the best for your sale of ARC pre

 

[GeorgeO]

Sid

I have been listening to a tube pre and ss power amp( AKSA 55N) combo for the past few months and I really like the sound-I might go as far as saying that at this time this is my favourite combo-but it is not simply because of this one component. The pre is not a high end one(Transcendant Sound Grounded Grid) but has excellent reviews. I have a ss pre and somehow found that the sound was not to my liking when matched to a ss power amp. My listening is also mostly 60's and 70's-jazz, acoustic rock, etc

I'm sure with a higher budget you will definitelyfind higher hanging fruit that you might find tasting better. I might have brought my pre across to Hyd for you to audition if I had time, but that may not be too easy in the near term-I too may have a US trip coming up, as well as some domestic travel.

Cheers

George

 

[sidvee]

Sid

. I have a ss pre and somehow found that the sound was not to my liking when matched to a ss power amp. My listening is also mostly 60's and 70's-jazz, acoustic rock, etc
George

So far only tube pre's have been able to satisfy me for long term listening with the similar genre. I have not had much luck with ss either.

I might have brought my pre across to Hyd for you to audition if I had time, but that may not be too easy in the near term.
Cheers

George

Thank you kindly George, much appreciated. Do drop in however, when you are in Hyd. I have a spare set of clubs so we can get in at-least a 9 holer at bolder hills
Cheers,
Sid

 

[Dr.Bass]

Hi Sid, I understand what a tube brings to the table and in your case I will go to an extent and say you need an all-tube setup but a high quality one. S-L is great, but having heard the SHL5 again this time in Spore with CAT pre-power (JL2) I just cannot see a point of having a SS component in the system. You are infact lucky to have a speaker which is a super match for tube amplification, why not make the most out of it ? I suppose you do not assume that all tube amps are typical "tubey" ? In the recent Singapore hifi show, the most transparent and dynamic amp of the show was an Audio Note tube amp driving a pair of Audio Note speakers to concert levels without a hint of mud. Since you are in the process of upgrading your amplification, why not re-consider a super all-tube amp ? Something like an Audio Note, Atmasphere OTL, Lamm or CAT ? If you are a tube guy, having a tube pre + SS power is definitely a compromise, I do not see a reason why you have to live with such a compromise (unless of course you want to keep the option open for a speaker upgrade in any direction).

 

[sidvee]

Hi Sid, I understand what a tube brings to the table and in your case I will go to an extent and say you need an all-tube setup but a high quality one. S-L is great, but having heard the SHL5 again this time in Spore with CAT pre-power (JL2) I just cannot see a point of having a SS component in the system. You are infact lucky to have a speaker which is a super match for tube amplification, why not make the most out of it ? I suppose you do not assume that all tube amps are typical "tubey" ? In the recent Singapore hifi show, the most transparent and dynamic amp of the show was an Audio Note tube amp driving a pair of Audio Note speakers to concert levels without a hint of mud. Since you are in the process of upgrading your amplification, why not re-consider a super all-tube amp ? Something like an Audio Note, Atmasphere OTL, Lamm or CAT ? If you are a tube guy, having a tube pre + SS power is definitely a compromise, I do not see a reason why you have to live with such a compromise (unless of course you want to keep the option open for a speaker upgrade in any direction).

Aptly said Dr. Bass but after years with tube amplification I finally switched to SS and with the SL I think I have struck a decent bargain of getting some warmth from a SS design (Even this took a couple of years - first with the Odyssey stratos and then moving up). Secondly living in Hyd. other than 3-4 mos of the years tube equipment can be painful to own, even if you are running A/C, not to mention all the power cuts and other BS. Hence for the time being I want to get my musical kicks by having tubes in the source and pre amp stages which in itself adds to the room heating but not as much as tube amps. This being said I have had my eye on Lamm ML1 or the recent 1.1 amps. and someday down the road I may consider these. As of now I do not have speaker upgrade plans,I still have a smile on my face everytime I listen to the Shl5.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[sidvee]

Just reading the review of the Lamm ll2.1 pre in Soundstage and came across the following comment by the reviewer on the o/p impedance and amp. matching as suggested by Vladimir Lamm:
"Output impedance is a low 250 ohms. He recommends using the LL2.1 with amplifiers having an input impedance of 10k ohms or higher"
So I believe I am moving in the right direction. If only this had a remote it would be a no-brainer.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[Dr.Bass]

Remote is a habit, comes when you have it and goes off pretty soon if you dont have it. Not a big deal when you are so close to something special

 

[prem]

Hi Sidvee


If you are looking at integrated, give Rethm Gaanam a listen. They are pretty much world class. They have a 15 watt SET using the 6C33 tubes and a 50 watt hybrid. Incidentally Rethm also makes a pre on request. FWIW i found his pre far superior to Dehavilland Mercury. I did not recommend his pre earlier because i felt you probably were looking at only established brands. In my journey i have found that there are many small brands which make very good stuff at highly affordable prices. Rethms pre would set you back by probably only Rs 50000 or even less.

 

[GeorgeO]

Sid

Thanks for the invite.Making a trip to Hyderabad this year is very definitely on my agenda. My son happened to make a quick trip there only yesterday( to the Infy campus near Uppal), and enroute brought back a kilo of hot Hyderabadi biriyani and khubani!

I know for sure that there is a wedding in August in Hyderabad for which I have to come, so with a US trip likely in Mar-April, looks like golf in Hyderabad will have to wait till Aug.

Cheers

George

So far only tube pre's have been able to satisfy me for long term listening with the similar genre. I have not had much luck with ss either.



Thank you kindly George, much appreciated. Do drop in however, when you are in Hyd. I have a spare set of clubs so we can get in at-least a 9 holer at bolder hills
Cheers,
Sid

 

[sidvee]

Hi Sidvee


I did not recommend his pre earlier because i felt you probably were looking at only established brands. In my journey i have found that there are many small brands which make very good stuff at highly affordable prices. Rethms pre would set you back by probably only Rs 50000 or even less.

Thanks Prem - Actually I do not have a preference of established vs small mfrs. Anything that sounds good is game. Will they be able to demo this pre at their dealers? Heck at this price I may just buy it to use it as a spare.
Cheers,
Sid