Hi , I’m also planning to change my cables to Beldon, Can you pls share the contact details of Cinetekk ? How much does it cost ? Any one deals with beldon in Bangalore?
Q Acoustics 3050i - improving stereo performance
- Thread starter dannyarcher
- Start date
dannyarcher
Active Member
I don't have a specific contact. I used the one that came up in Google search result.
It costed ₹225/metre + shipping. And, I don't know if there are any dealers in Bangalore.
There are dealers in Bangalore, but I am not sure if they would deal in anything less than 50 meters. You can check with them over call/whatsapp, I had contacted the number provided over just dial to check stock
spirovious
Well-Known Member
I guess AVR is not giving enough power to these speakers. Changing crossover from 80 to 100hzs is reducing load on AVR during demanding Bass. A good stereo amp will sound even better.
Sean de Silva
Well-Known Member
I picked up 2 strips of 1.5m Belden 8477 @200/m from Kiran sales mumbai recently.
I got about 40 meters of wire for my entire HT setup at about 160/m from Bangalore.
Edit - Barring the ceiling speakers as it would need a hole of 3 times more dimension
arunkvivek
Well-Known Member
Belden 8477 are available in SP road.. cablecrafts..
dannyarcher
Active Member
Here is a basic question regarding power.
The QA website states that 3050i need the following power when driven from..
- Stereo Amplifier: 25 - 100 W
- AV Receiver (2 ch. driven): 50 - 165 W
My Denon AVR is rated to deliver 80W at 8Ohm with 2 channel driven. I'm assuming that the output power increases when driving a 6Ohm speaker like the 3050i (can't remember the exact physics equation to calculate this!
Please share if you do know)And, a stereo amp like Marantz PM6006 has a rated power of 45W at 8ohm, 60W for 4ohm. This might also be not enough for the 3050i, right?
So, when you say that the AVR is not giving enough power -- is it that the output power is closer to the lower threshold of 50W?
oldmonk
Well-Known Member
A lot depends on current delivery and how quickly the AVR responds to change in speaker load caused due to music flow from the source.
spirovious
Well-Known Member
AVR design is usually different than stereo amp. Even if AVR says 80W, it may not output in real world. Also distortion level of AVR can be higher than Stereo amp. Again parts used in AVR also matters. Make of AVR also sounds different(Yamaha, Denon, Marantz, Nad etc). Its not all about of power numbers ,but the implementation. A good amp with as low as 30 watts may out perform 100 watt AVR.
gapinthemap
New Member
The easiest way to understand this is using sensitivity of the speaker. 3050i is 91dB/1W/1m @ 1KHz. Which means it produces 91dB loudness at 1m with 1W of amplifier power with a 1KHz tone. Now think of what happens if you drive with 100W amplifier. 100 times power will result in 20dB louder sound. So you will get 111 dB loudness at 1m with 100W.Here is a basic question regarding power.
The QA website states that 3050i need the following power when driven from..
- Stereo Amplifier: 25 - 100 W
- AV Receiver (2 ch. driven): 50 - 165 W
My Denon AVR is rated to deliver 80W at 8Ohm with 2 channel driven. I'm assuming that the output power increases when driving a 6Ohm speaker like the 3050i (can't remember the exact physics equation to calculate this!
And, a stereo amp like Marantz PM6006 has a rated power of 45W at 8ohm, 60W for 4ohm. This might also be not enough for the 3050i, right?
So, when you say that the AVR is not giving enough power -- is it that the output power is closer to the lower threshold of 50W?
Now you are not going to sit at 1m distance from the speaker obviously. This will bring in the distance law. Doubling the distance will decrease the loudness by 6dB which means you will hear it as quarter as loud. So, at 4m you will listen at 111db - 12dB = 99 dB.
99dB is unbelievably loud. I cannot imagine you will listen at more than 85 dB. So you are going to use around 40W of power per channel.
Now remember all this is based on a 1KHz tone. Obviously you are not going to listen 1KHz tone all day. The amplifiers will need more power to drive the speakers as the impedance will drop significantly at lower frequencies. It is not uncommon for the impedance of the speaker to drop to 4Ohm or lower at lower frequencies. So, the 40W power that you needed for your speaker will become 80W needed. Which may be hard for the AVR to deliver if you have more than 2 channel active at any point of time.
Hence the suggestion was for you to crossover higher so that the heavy lifting for the lower frequency can be handled by the sub-woofer instead of the AVR.
I think at this point you can do few things,
a) Listen at lower level. Remember every 3dB reduction halves the amplifier power.
b) Offload lower frequencies to sub-woofer. That may still be not enough
c) Add an extra stereo amplifier to drive your fronts. It may or may not be possible unless you have a pre-out in your AVR
d) The most obvious thing for an audiophile BUY a newer beefier AVR
dannyarcher
Active Member
Cannot thank you enough for such a comprehensive explanation. So good.The easiest way to understand this is using sensitivity of the speaker. 3050i is 91dB/1W/1m @ 1KHz. Which means it produces 91dB loudness at 1m with 1W of amplifier power with a 1KHz tone. Now think of what happens if you drive with 100W amplifier. 100 times power will result in 20dB louder sound. So you will get 111 dB loudness at 1m with 100W.
Now you are not going to sit at 1m distance from the speaker obviously. This will bring in the distance law. Doubling the distance will decrease the loudness by 6dB which means you will hear it as quarter as loud. So, at 4m you will listen at 111db - 12dB = 99 dB.
99dB is unbelievably loud. I cannot imagine you will listen at more than 85 dB. So you are going to use around 40W of power per channel.
Now remember all this is based on a 1KHz tone. Obviously you are not going to listen 1KHz tone all day. The amplifiers will need more power to drive the speakers as the impedance will drop significantly at lower frequencies. It is not uncommon for the impedance of the speaker to drop to 4Ohm or lower at lower frequencies. So, the 40W power that you needed for your speaker will become 80W needed. Which may be hard for the AVR to deliver if you have more than 2 channel active at any point of time.
Hence the suggestion was for you to crossover higher so that the heavy lifting for the lower frequency can be handled by the sub-woofer instead of the AVR.
I think at this point you can do few things,
a) Listen at lower level. Remember every 3dB reduction halves the amplifier power.
b) Offload lower frequencies to sub-woofer. That may still be not enough
c) Add an extra stereo amplifier to drive your fronts. It may or may not be possible unless you have a pre-out in your AVR
d) The most obvious thing for an audiophile BUY a newer beefier AVR
I'm mulling over the options of buying a beefier AVR with preouts vs. buying a stereo amp and a switch.
Thanks for detailed yet simple explanation.The easiest way to understand this is using sensitivity of the speaker. 3050i is 91dB/1W/1m @ 1KHz. Which means it produces 91dB loudness at 1m with 1W of amplifier power with a 1KHz tone. Now think of what happens if you drive with 100W amplifier. 100 times power will result in 20dB louder sound. So you will get 111 dB loudness at 1m with 100W.
Now you are not going to sit at 1m distance from the speaker obviously. This will bring in the distance law. Doubling the distance will decrease the loudness by 6dB which means you will hear it as quarter as loud. So, at 4m you will listen at 111db - 12dB = 99 dB.
99dB is unbelievably loud. I cannot imagine you will listen at more than 85 dB. So you are going to use around 40W of power per channel.
Now remember all this is based on a 1KHz tone. Obviously you are not going to listen 1KHz tone all day. The amplifiers will need more power to drive the speakers as the impedance will drop significantly at lower frequencies. It is not uncommon for the impedance of the speaker to drop to 4Ohm or lower at lower frequencies. So, the 40W power that you needed for your speaker will become 80W needed. Which may be hard for the AVR to deliver if you have more than 2 channel active at any point of time.
Hence the suggestion was for you to crossover higher so that the heavy lifting for the lower frequency can be handled by the sub-woofer instead of the AVR.
I think at this point you can do few things,
a) Listen at lower level. Remember every 3dB reduction halves the amplifier power.
b) Offload lower frequencies to sub-woofer. That may still be not enough
c) Add an extra stereo amplifier to drive your fronts. It may or may not be possible unless you have a pre-out in your AVR
d) The most obvious thing for an audiophile BUY a newer beefier AVR
I’m but confuse to choose either stereo amp r integrated amp and what make difference choosing either one
I understand integrated have pre n power in built n what have stereo amp is power boost?
spirovious
Well-Known Member
Both are same in general, just word is different. Stereo Poweramp is different than stereo/ integrated amp as it doesn't have preamp in built.
Which is best suggestible for separate stereo setup with best decent quality output
Sean de Silva
Well-Known Member
a simple search on our esteemed forum will help answer many questions
difference between power amp and integrated amp
pls inform, what is difference between power amp and integrated amp, which one is best for sound quality rgds
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gapinthemap
New Member
It depends. Integrating a stereo system with HT is possible but harder. Amplification is the easiest to solve as you will need AVr with Pre-out + Power Amplifier.
The problem is that, the pre-processing part of AVR is often lacking. The DACs are lower performing, analog pre-amp is noisier. I had once solved this by using an older NAD integrated amplifier which had a Pre-out and separate mains in. So essentially the pre-amp and the power amp were separate. So I connected analog inputs to the pre-amp inputs and connected the output to one of the inputs of AVR which I designated as pure direct. This means that the input does not get digitised and does not go through additional processing.
Then I took the pre-outs of front L and R and connected to the mains in of the NAD integrated amp.
I used the trigger out of the AV receiver to switch on and off simultaneously. It is a very complicated set-up.
I found it was lot easier to have a separate stereo set-up if you have space to do so.
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