Questions on power cable and their effect on equipment

[chander]

You just described all of humanity.

It makes me so happy to hear a human say this about themselves. Even in jest.

I was being very serious

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Guys! Everyone!

For clarification - I want to understand - "perception of audio change" will be reflected in measurements or not? That is all.
No need to bring out the big guns!

You won't find anything measurable with a umik - 1 .

But if you keep practicing and improve your measuring skills, you can make a living out of it.

I know a guy who became rich just by measuring distortion and sinad

 

[mbhangui]

I know a guy who became rich just by measuring distortion and sinad

Amir aadmi hai woh.

 

[spirovious]

Even with good measurements, cables, acoustically bad room can spoil actual listening experience.

 

[chander]

I can conclude (my side of) this thread by saying -
1 - Furutech Roxy, didn't fit Genlec G3 in a way, that I was comfortable with - I was afraid of that as even Ali from SF mentioned it won't when I sent him a picture. The IEC on the back of Genelec is very awkwardly placed, making absolutely anything more than a PC power cord, impossible to fit.
2 - The length of the furutech roxy IEC female plug is around 6.5 Cm, with a fairly thick cable coming out of the socket. The clearance between the IEC & base on Genelec is around 8.5 cm. On the other hand the IEC that is currently plugged on G3 is 4cm with the cable relief.
3 - The cable though pliant wasn't able to bend under the G3 with enough clearance, and a lot of pressure/weight was being applied on the cable, lifting the speaker from the base. I was not comfortable with that at all.
4 - Moreover The fit of the IEC plug was so snug that I had to push it in with all my might and then I had to remove it extremely patiently - took me about a minute or 2; sounds like nothing, but trust me when you think a cable is stuck in your brand new speakers and you need to pull it mm by mm over a period of 2 minutes, that feels like eternal damnation.
5 - Also my friend forgot to get the UMIK.

So I wasn't very comfortable, mistreating my new toy, hence we didn't go ahead with this exercise.

 

[drlowmu]

Hi all,

Let me start by saying that I am not sure if a power cable makes a difference to a system. However while having a discussion with a friend who is visiting me soon with his Chord Qutest, the discussion came up and he is bringing his Furutech roxy power cable (that with god's blessing will hopefully fit on the Genelec) to try with my Genelecs to see the impact. Sadly he has only 1 but that should be enough I guess. He is also bring his Umik 1 microphone to measure.

The question is - If we take a close measurement with the speaker position fixed, and change the power cable and ignoring what we hear, the measurements should ideally be different to show that the cable made an impact? Not looking for a flat or "ideal" graph, but just looking for changes in measurements with cable change.

*** Has this experiment been done before? If so, can someone point us to it and save us a lot of time

Thanks!

Every INCH of wire in a good system is audible. You will certainly NOT see it with ANY microphone. Just use your GOD- Given ears. HEAR IT !!!! The degree to which would hear it will be a result of just how well-thought-out one's entire system is.

Seems like no one on HFV newly uses " TRIOS", so you are all behind the eight ball right there !!! Goodness knows how many other optimization areas might be similarly overlooked . Maybe you need to let your friend invite you over to HIS set up !!!! No mics needed, just employ what is on either side of your head. :-

 

[chander]

Ok coming back - not to set fire on the peace here - but with one observation. Request all to read this as 'my observation' not an attack on anyone's belief or experience.

I decided to put the MIC away & just listen - as advised! This is with my G3+7040sub - 2.1 setup.

1 - First the 'cheap kettle cables' that came with Genelec went away & came in custom cables - supposedly better No difference audible for better or worse.
2 - The entire system is on a different connection powered by a dedicated Online UPS (1 KVA) at all times, so I am guessing it is isolated from the rest of the house. **The 1 KVA just powers this 2.1 setup + DAC + Streamer + Xbox (which is off most of the time) connected directly to the main board!! NO difference audible for better or worse.
3 - I got a SoundFoundation power board and all the gear is running from it now. No difference audible for better or worse.

SO I can very comfortably say, my ears are not trained or attuned or good enough to experience the "fine differences" that power cables bring. NOTHING.

So I guess I am blessed that I have one less thing to worry about in the quest for perfection, power cables

Thanks!

Also from Genelec.

speaker's quality and power cable - Forum - community

speaker's quality and power cable

community.genelec.com

 

[sbg]

....So I guess I am blessed that I have one less thing to worry about in the quest for perfection, power cables ...

ME TOO!!!
no, I'm not starting any "me too" movement here, but taking solace that I was never alone and, and I do know ,maybe, I'm one of those "Flat Earthers" kind of entity in the Audiophile world .

I think , I've stopped worrying , more like lost the craving to get anything beyond my comprehension or understanding , but, keep wondering/digging/reading/watching/...

This doesn't mean I cannot differentiate different source, amps and Speakers on how they sound.

 

[keith_correa]

SO I can very comfortably say, my ears are not trained or attuned or good enough to experience the "fine differences" that power cables bring. NOTHING.

Or, like the old chestnut bandied about and which goes: "The rig is just not resolving enough"

So I guess I am blessed that I have one less thing to worry about in the quest for perfection, power cables

OK, to set the cat among the pigeons: Which custom cable did you compare against?

 

[chander]

This doesn't mean I cannot differentiate different source, amps and Speakers on how they sound.

I would agree - For me the easiest difference to identify is in this order -
1 - Speaker & subs
2 - placement
3 - amplifiers

The not so easy, could be placebo -
1 - Dacs & sources - differences do appear but most of the time it is hard to tell which is doing what & which signature you prefer.
2 - Interconnects - rarely differences have been stark apparent - Some like Mogami 2497 was in your face different, but mostly - nothing.
3 - speaker cables - again one of those very rare instances where you can pick up something but impossible to blind test

No difference whatsoever
1 - power cables


*****Again these are only my experiences & opinions - doesn't make it a "patthar ki lakir".

 

[chander]

Or, like the old chestnut bandied about and which goes: "The rig is just not resolving enough"

I guess with my "auditory limitations" I can live with that !!!

OK, to set the cat among the pigeons: Which custom cable did you compare against?

Made these myself - got some fancy power connectors - "furutech looking - fakes"; a thicker shielded power cable -Aucharm PPC 4.0. for speakers & sub & finolex for the Xbox & CXN

link for connectors - https://theaudiocrafts.com/cables-and-plugs/power-plugs

So the total cost per cable was around 4K approx per Speaker, & the sub was lesser, shorter cable.

See I expected no differences I just wanted them to look FANCY

 

[sbg]

"auditory limitations".
will there be any Audiophile certified specifications .

...that will open up a different path for upgrades. Visit to a surgeons instead of replacing with better spec'd gears.

 

[arj]

Request all to read this as 'my observation' not an attack on anyone's belief or experience.

Your music system is for your ears , so what others say does not matter. Its good if the system is agnostic to power cables as it takes one of the moving parts out of the equation which makes it simpler to get to your sound !

 

[corElement]

I recently upgraded my dac, speaker cable, power cables, digital power cables, and power distribution box. Each change brought about a distinct change in the sound, each were about 5% differences, minute but audible. But when it's 5x5 it's 25% difference, and that's about the difference the upgrades overall brought however at significantly higher cost. Was it worth it? it's entirely a personal preference.

 

[manditri]

I recently upgraded my dac, speaker cable, power cables, digital power cables, and power distribution box.

What did you upgrade to for each of them?

 

[chander]

What did you upgrade to for each of them?

I believe this is the reference! - https://www.hifivision.com/threads/upgraded-my-power-cable-a-review.92780/#post-1035347

 

[essrand]

I have had two very different experiences with power cables.

First:
I bought a pair of Cardas Clear PCs sometime back and put them into my Coincident 300b mono blocks. The difference was night and day better. It was stunning, I became a believer that a PC is the most important cable in the system.

Second: Same PCs
After upgrading from Coincident 300b mono blocks to a Nagra 300b stereo amplifier, there was no difference between using a Cardas PC and a stock PC. It was a big shock.

Third (bonus experience):
I tried the Cardas PC with my recently acquired Shindo preamp. It sounded worse.
Shindo pre/power are famous for only accepting their own cable that looks like an ordinary stock power cable and is free.

My understanding now is that it is very system-dependent, and better the quality of your amp/preamp the smaller is the effect of a PC and vice-versa.

Now finally, here's a shocker.

I have a power strip/passive power conditioner made by Acoustic Revive.
Based on my second and third experience, I decided to get rid of it and removed it from the system to photograph and sell it, and suddenly my system was unlistenable. The harmony was gone, the instruments were suddenly playing independent of each other and not together with the music. I put the AR power strip back into the system and boom! it all came back together again, it was again so surprising that I called my non-audiophile GF to listen and even to her it was very clear that the AR power strip was doing something special.

The AR power strip has no active electrical/electronic parts!!

 

[air870]

Every INCH of wire in a good system is audible. You will certainly NOT see it with ANY microphone. Just use your GOD- Given ears. HEAR IT !!!! The degree to which would hear it will be a result of just how well-thought-out one's entire system is.

Seems like no one on HFV newly uses " TRIOS", so you are all behind the eight ball right there !!! Goodness knows how many other optimization areas might be similarly overlooked . Maybe you need to let your friend invite you over to HIS set up !!!! No mics needed, just employ what is on either side of your head. :-

I agree

 

[insane79]

I guess with my "auditory limitations" I can live with that !!!

Made these myself - got some fancy power connectors - "furutech looking - fakes"; a thicker shielded power cable -Aucharm PPC 4.0. for speakers & sub & finolex for the Xbox & CXN

link for connectors - https://theaudiocrafts.com/cables-and-plugs/power-plugs

So the total cost per cable was around 4K approx per Speaker, & the sub was lesser, shorter cable.

See I expected no differences I just wanted them to look FANCY View attachment 77492

Is that the SoundFoundation Power base?

 

[chander]

Is that the SoundFoundation Power base?

Yes!