RCA cables whats the best quality within Rs 1000

[changappa]

Well a one hr test might not be the right way to decide the result. I just posted my first impression, until and unless I do a comprehensive test this cannot be fact

And I dont think others lie here, all these guys are well respected and talk from experience so do trust them

Hi. Plse excuse me if some of the members felt it. I too had a doubt wether one meter cable is going to make much of a difference once its a good quality copper? normally the wires r soldered inside. May be a silver polysh (coating) on the connectors may be good enough. And this zero oxigen funda I couldn't digest? it may be used in reording studios!!

 

[ashishkesarwani]

this zero oxigen funda I couldn't digest? it may be used in reording studios!!

To test this funda I would suggest you to keep a bare copper wire without its insulation in the open for a week and then see for yourself what happens to it. Copper will get oxidised and for that very purpose cables for audio and video are kept oxygen free to reduce this oxidation which if not taken care off would result in degrading the sound quality in the long run.

 

[keith_correa]

Why don't you try DIY? This is one of the simplest recipes around. What do you have to lose? Certainly not 1000 bucks.

 

[changappa]

To test this funda I would suggest you to keep a bare copper wire without its insulation in the open for a week and then see for yourself what happens to it. Copper will get oxidised and for that very purpose cables for audio and video are kept oxygen free to reduce this oxidation which if not taken care off would result in degrading the sound quality in the long run.

Hi.
thanx for sharing the knowledge. Anyway who is going to use a naked copper wire for connectivity?? All the cables are well insulated in the range of like Rs50/- or above. normally the continuity and resistence is checked. I shall agree with ur point like the % of oxygen in copper will effect in a longer run.

thanx

 

[changappa]

Why don't you try DIY? This is one of the simplest recipes around. What do you have to lose? Certainly not 1000 bucks.

OOch its amazing!!

 

[unleash_me]

In my system, I could not find any difference between them. All 3 sounded the same. I was totally stunned. No clue why this is.

Ram, you have my sympathies. It's a pity that you just can't scale up to the elite level of hysteria simply due to your status of being a normal mortal. Whats the point of those exquisite means of sonic pleasures if you just cant enjoy it with your human abilities?

The cable companies, they have it all, don't they?

If you can't hear a difference, then start to -

1) Blame it on your system
2) Blame it on your system's positioning
3) Blame it on your system's mains
4) Blame it on your inexperience
5) Blame it on your poor hearing
6) Blame it on your genes

Whats next?!

 

[Asit]

Hi Unleash,

I am a little puzzled by your mail. I have this urge to write something.

I do not have much idea about the cables Ram tried out. But I am very surprised by Ram's finding. The reason for my being surprised is not that he did NOT find the Rs 1K cable superior than Rs 150 cable. The reason is that he did not find any difference at all in the tonal qualities (it very well could be that the cheaper cables were found more to his liking at least for certain musical pieces, I have no problem with that).

My understanding is that cables are never neutral, they are more like graphic equalizers that change tonal qualities, however little it could be. Usually in any crystal, however pure, there are always some impurities, and electromagnetic signals passing through a cable get scattered from these impurities. Now remember there does not exist any pure tone in this world. Any propagating signal in this world actually comprises of superposition of many frequencies. The effect of scattering of the signal inside the cable (and even at the terminated ends) is inevitably to change the relative weight of frequencies present in the initial signal. This is precisely what a graphic equalizer does. To give an example what scattering does to a signal, remember that sunlight is predominantly white in colour, but the sky still looks blue and this happens because of scattering of the sunlight from tiny particles in the atmosphere. I have already used this example sometime ago in some other thread.

The purer the crystal form, the more neutral the cable would be. Of course, there are other issues like shielding. As is well known, electromagnetic effects can be shielded (unlike gravitational effects) and hence cables can be designed with better shielding so that it does not pick up noise from neighbouring sources of electromagnetism, like other cables and power cords etc. With better shielding, the noise floor will be less and hence signal to noise ratio will increase. One net effect of this on the sonics would be an increased level of dynamics.

Now Ram's system, as far as I know from all these threads, is not a top-flight one, however, a reasonable one and I find it very strange that he did not find any difference in the sonics when using all these different cables. I'd say his findings defy Physics as far as I understand it. In this context, let me add that this is a subject in the so-called Condensed Matter Physics. I am not a Condensed Matter Physicist (my subject is theoretical High Energy Physics or Particle Physics). So there could be some gaps in my understanding too. As far as I know, the subject of impurities in crystals is still a subject of current research and I find the subject of the scattering of a complex signal (comprising of many frequencies at the same instant of time) from impurities in a crystal a very very complex research subject, something that the condensed matter physics community may not know a lot about. However, this does not prevent participants (laymen in terms of the physics concerned) in forums across the globe perpetually fighting with each other with deep convictions.

I have an amp that is comfortably costing above a Lakh. To replace my current pair of old speakers with worthy successors, I am convinced it will cost me a few times the cost of my amp. I have spare cables (far worse than the ones in use, in my evaluation) costing more than 25K. You have very similar, if not much more expensive gear. Why just AV gear? A pair of Levi jeans costs 2K, an Arrow shirt costs 1.5K, Multiplex tickets for a family costs not less than Rs 500 -1K, some of us can very easily buy cars costing in excess of 10L. However, among all these, cables do have a special position somehow that everybody is very sensitive about. This is something I find very strange.

I am not justifying high costs of so-called good cables or good gear. Neither I am justifying the costs of a good pair of jeans. In fact, despite Cranky's explanation above, I fail to understand the high costs. And believe me, I worry about these things more, I have to, because being an academician I earn only a small fraction of many people in this forum.

I think I have explained in detail why I find your post very puzzling, especially when you bring in the issue of elitism. Neither the science (as far as I understand it as explained above) nor the ground realities (also explained above) explain the use of such terms. In my view, elitism stands for exclusivity, a sense of belonging to a special group. Elitism can be uprooted from our society (including the audio/video-philes) only by sharing our views, knowledge and experience with all others without any bias.

I'd be very interested to hear Ram's findings if he has the time and inclination to repeat this test. Of course care has to be undertaken in terms of identifying the weakest part of his chain. This actually can be another cable (not under test). The weakest part will be the errors of his results.

Regards.

 

[sidvee]

Esteemed members,
My 2 paisa on this - I did a couple reviews on cables for an on-line audio magazine. IMHO to readily hear difference between cables one has to have a decently resolving system. Especially relating to the clarity or overall resolution of the sound. In the absence of this it becomes harder to distinguish cable realted artifacts, both desirable and undesirable. Secondly I found that though similary priced cables can have the same amount of performance, as you go up the price ladder, the performance goes up significantly - of-course upto a limit wherein the laws of diminishing returns kick in. With-in the context of my system this limit happens to be the $500 range for IC's and about $700-$800 for speaker cables. So - yes I subscribe fully to the fact that cables will and should make a difference - upto a cerain price point.
Cheers
Sid

 

[Asit]

Cranky,

No matter how surprised I am, I will never discard anybody's actual findings. And if you read my post, I never disagreed with Ram's actual findings. However, I had a hard time understanding it. Then I went about explaining why any cable, good or bad, at least in theory, should have a different sonics, however slight that effect may be. But I had a hard time understanding unleash's post, especially the reference to elitism.

Regards.

 

[sidvee]

BTW guys - some interesting comments on cables from John E. Johnson of Secrets:

"Now to something very intriguing that has just been published. In the latest issue of Audio Xpress (November, 2009), Ed Simon wrote an article about building a distortion meter to test audio cables. He was very surprised to learn the following:

(1) Solder connections were at least 50 times better than the best plain mechanical connections. (in other words, ICs should be soldered onto their circuit boards, not just plugged in).

(2) Gold connectors mating to gold connectors work best.

(3) Shiny (chrome, nickel) connectors mating to gold are not quite as good - when clean and newly inserted - but become worse within hours.

(4) Shiny plugged into shiny is not as good as gold on gold.

(5) Some gold (connectors) made for video and audio were horrible (the really cheap ones, probably gold on tin).

(6) Putting a surge through a cable lowers the distortion for a time, but it comes back.

What we can conclude from this is that a lot of what has been reported in cable reviews, as to an increase in clarity, "as if a veil had been lifted", etc., could very well be due to the simple act of pulling out the old connector and inserting a new one (a cable being reviewed). Also, whether there was gold on gold, or gold on tin, or tin on tin, could have an effect on the sound. In other words, the "improvement" in sound with a cable under review could be more from the connector - the type of metal on the surface and having just plugged it in - than from the wiring. Lastly, there are some products out there that "condition" or "burn in" cables. They may actually work, but only for awhile. So, if you have one of these burn in products, use it often. My theory about how this might work is perhaps the oxidation on the surface of the connectors is affected by a high voltage signal surge, but that is just a guess."

You can read the articles which refers to a review on Emotiva's cables here:
Emotiva X-Series A/V Cables Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity

Cheers
Sid

 

[venkatcr]

All the cables are well insulated in the range of like Rs50/- or above. normally the continuity and resistence is checked.

Changappa, one of the easiest ways to confirm for yourself is to use a inexpensive component cable and connect your DVD Player and/or set top box to the TV. Watch this for a few minutes. Then use a good quality component cable and see the difference. The blacks will become blacker, the colours will be more vivid, and interference and other artifacts will vanish - even the motion will become less irritating. It is easier to see this with your eye than hear it with your ears.

Cheers

 

[Asit]

I know the type you are talking about, cranky. I have met a few in my time.

Changappa,
Venkat has given a very good example, perhaps. I have "seen" the effects with my own eyes in my LCD TV when I used a better quality component cable to connect my BigTV STB with my TV.

Regards.

 

[S.P.KRISHNA]

To All,
I paste hereunder the article which not only clarifies the often debates on cables ,that are still in question ,through out the world audiophiles but also placement of speakers for their best performance.

Five Ways to Get the Best Performance from Your Stereo System
By Gary Altunian,

High-end audio can be a snobby term. It suggests that you must spend more than your budget might allow to get good sound quality. However, even a moderately priced system can deliver excellent performance when properly set up in a good listening room. The following steps are a guide to getting the most performance from your stereo system.

1. Select a Room with Good Acoustics
Good room acoustics is an important audio component just like a receiver or speaker and is the foundation of all good sounding systems. A room with many hard surfaces, such as tile and glass or a room with high ceilings is a poor listening environment with lots of sound reflections, which create poor bass and brassy sounding midrange and highs. A room with softer, more damped furnishings such as carpet, drapes, cloth furniture and lower ceilings makes a better choice for a listening room. Even a good listening room can often benefit from room acoustic treatments.
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2. Place Speakers Correctly
Correct speaker placement ensures the best bass response and the best sounding midrange and highs. All rooms have resonant modes, or standing waves that amplfiy or attenuate certain bass frequencies based on the length, width and height of the room. This often leads to muddy, heavy or boomy sounding bass. Correct speaker placement helps by positioning the speaker where it will not excite the various room resonances. Correct placement also helps create good imaging and soundstage by reducing reflections from walls and other surfaces. The best part is that it costs nothing, except a little time and some patience.

3. Find the Best Listening Position: The Sweet Spot
Your listening position should be the 'sweet spot', the location in the room where your system sounds the best. Determining the sweet spot is simple. Your listening position should be the third point of a triangle relative to the speakers. If the speakers are six feet apart, your listening position should be equidistant from each speaker and approximately 1.2 times as far as the distance between the speakers, or 7.2' (6' x 1.2 = 7.2').

4. Use Good Speaker Wire
You could spend thousands of dollars on speaker cables, although I don't believe that's necessary. I do believe that premium speaker cables make a difference in sound quality and one of the essential characteristics of a good speaker cable is its ability to deliver adequate electrical current to the loudspeakers. Consider premium speaker wires, but at a minimum, purchase speaker wire that is at least 12 gauge, nothing smaller. (The higher the number, the thinner the wire - 18 gauge is thinner than 12 gauge). The speaker included with some speakers is generally no thicker than dental floss and is not recommended.

5. Adjust the Sound Settings on Your Receiver or Amplifier
Stereo and A/V Receivers have set up menus that adjust many sound functions. Among the most important are speaker size, bass output and speaker level or volume. Speaker size (large/small) determines the frequency range that the receiver will deliver to the speaker and is determined by the speakers capabilities. Bass output determines whether the bass will be reproduced by the left and right speakers, the subwoofer, or in some cases, both. Speaker level is a critical setting for accurate multichannel music and movie sound track reproduction. The best way to set levels is with a sound level meter.

 

[rams1977]

Hi all,
Now its my turn to add some bit of masala to this thread. I purchased my stereo setup 2 months back. Norge 2060 + Whrf 9.2 are down the chain. There were two culprits in my system. The interconnect and DVD player. I was looking to replace my Rs. 25 bucks interconnect (IMO this shouldn even be called 'interconnect' they should be called 'wire' if that can degrade them by all means) with a decent one. I got an oppurtunity to meet our forum member murali sir (murali_n) in his house [he is so accomodating that i spent around good 4 hours in audition. More about this may be in another thread]. I bought his spare interconnects (Bandridge entry-level nickel plated) to replace mine. He said he bought for about Rs. 300 or so. Audiophiles pls forgive me if i look small before recommended interconnects.

Coming to point, i went home and put these new cables in place. started playing 'Morph the cat'. the session was short. First thought: it was like the setup lost on 'Highs'. I did notice some improvements in the dynamics then. But after a subsequent detailed 3-4 hours audition, 2-3 days later, now iam sure that 'GOOD' interconnects definitely make a difference. So in my IMO, there should be 'audible' difference between a 'Nickel' plated cable and a 24k Gold plated cable. Any test results from that side welcome.

 

[psychotropic]

ahhh 'morph the cat' ......that's my favourite reference track as well!

I have a small and inconclusive experience with speaker wire i'd like to share. I use lamp wire for speaker wire.....2.5 sq. mm.....thevortex was visiting and he had brought along his bandridge speaker wire. We swapped out the lamp wire for the bandridge, and I couldn't make out any difference at all, even listening to reference quality recordings that I was intimately familiar with. but thevortex could hear the difference.

To clarify, mine is a pretty basic setup.

So perhaps, like cranky said with regard to ascertaining the key of a song by ear (which i still haven't mastered) this is something that will come to you as you spend more time with your equipment and with good equipment in general. There are of course those who believe that wire does not make a difference or only makes an infinitesimal difference, and these are people who've heard tons of great systems as well, so there's unlikely to be a single authoritative answer.

Asit's posts on the propagation of a signal through a medium and the scattering that occurs on account of its composition and the impurities and so on, was the first scientific explanation I've read that sounded convincing to my layman mind, with regard to the difference between cables/wire. I am yet to experience the practical equivalent of that, but I don't rule it out. But maybe until that happens, I won't splurge on cables.

Hi all,
Now its my turn to add some bit of masala to this thread. I purchased my stereo setup 2 months back. Norge 2060 + Whrf 9.2 are down the chain. There were two culprits in my system. The interconnect and DVD player. I was looking to replace my Rs. 25 bucks interconnect (IMO this shouldn even be called 'interconnect' they should be called 'wire' if that can degrade them by all means) with a decent one. I got an oppurtunity to meet our forum member murali sir (murali_n) in his house [he is so accomodating that i spent around good 4 hours in audition. More about this may be in another thread]. I bought his spare interconnects (Bandridge entry-level nickel plated) to replace mine. He said he bought for about Rs. 300 or so. Audiophiles pls forgive me if i look small before recommended interconnects.

Coming to point, i went home and put these new cables in place. started playing 'Morph the cat'. the session was short. First thought: it was like the setup lost on 'Highs'. I did notice some improvements in the dynamics then. But after a subsequent detailed 3-4 hours audition, 2-3 days later, now iam sure that 'GOOD' interconnects definitely make a difference. So in my IMO, there should be 'audible' difference between a 'Nickel' plated cable and a 24k Gold plated cable. Any test results from that side welcome.

 

[suri]

the source and the reproducer - they are what matter, and what the seeker of the holy grail should be spending his/her money on.

= not what connects these two! - as long as these connections do not corrode at the connecting points

certainly, gullible people should be protected from spending money on single crystal copper each single length of which exceeds a 100 metres. ( unless, of course, a 100 metre roll is available to the buying public at $ 65!) . If i paid a thousand dollars/rupees/kwacha/rupiah/dinar for such a wire/ 5 metres, i would certainly hear a certain lush, truthful sound, such as which cannot be obtained with 2.5 sq. mm finolex wire. (truth being, i am a fool)

just as - if the speaker cabinet is made of a thousand layers of reared-in-cannanore spider's web which is layered with the mashed umbilical cord of fresh still-born babies - it should sound exotic and unreal? real?

just kidding! seriously!

 

[thevortex]

ahhh 'morph the cat' ......that's my favourite reference track as well!

I have a small and inconclusive experience with speaker wire i'd like to share. I use lamp wire for speaker wire.....2.5 sq. mm.....thevortex was visiting and he had brought along his bandridge speaker wire. We swapped out the lamp wire for the bandridge, and I couldn't make out any difference at all, even listening to reference quality recordings that I was intimately familiar with. but thevortex could hear the difference.

To clarify, mine is a pretty basic setup.

So perhaps, like cranky said with regard to ascertaining the key of a song by ear (which i still haven't mastered) this is something that will come to you as you spend more time with your equipment and with good equipment in general. There are of course those who believe that wire does not make a difference or only makes an infinitesimal difference, and these are people who've heard tons of great systems as well, so there's unlikely to be a single authoritative answer.

Asit's posts on the propagation of a signal through a medium and the scattering that occurs on account of its composition and the impurities and so on, was the first scientific explanation I've read that sounded convincing to my layman mind, with regard to the difference between cables/wire. I am yet to experience the practical equivalent of that, but I don't rule it out. But maybe until that happens, I won't splurge on cables.

Hey psycho - just wanted to pitch in and mention that there was not too much of a difference. A very slight one, really. And that too, in such a short time, is as you say inconclusive.