Recording through Audacity..

[eddie_fox]

Hi guys,

Just needed a bit of help..

I tried to record a vinyl track to my laptop, using the software -'Audacity'. The source was the 1200, connected to the phono on the Rega-brio amp. I connected an RCA out from the 'record-out' output on the amp. The other end of the cable was a 3.5mm jack which I connected to the 'mic-in' socket on my laptop. I then tried recording through the software mentioned.

The recording happened but when I played it back, there was a lot of distortion in the recording. I am not sure why this is. I can attach a small clip of the recording if necessary. Can anyone help?

(I thought, maybe it is because the output on the amp is line level and the mic input amplifies the signal again... just a guess! Is that possible? Is it why the distortion? Can I reduce the sensitivity of the line-in in the software?)

Any help on how I can record using Audacity or any other software will be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[reubensm]

Connecting the recording output of your amp to the Mic-In will definitely result in distorted sound. This is a challenge when you use laptops as very few of them have "Line-In" sockets. You'd need to connect your amp's recording output to the Line-In of a soundcard to get a distortion free recording. The input sensitivity and impedance of microphone inputs are very different from those of line inputs (or auxilary inputs) and hence the mismatch. On another note, you can try to monitor the sound that goes into your laptop using earphones. The sound in the earphones should be clear and distortion free for your recording to be good. In short, you can use a PC with a sound card with Line In and you should be fine.

If you are still bent on using your laptop's microphone input, I will share with you a trick which I used when I was in school. Back in those days, portable mono cassette recorders did not come with a Line-In and had only a microphone input. We kids never liked recording music using a microphone so I came up with a way to connect Dad's amp's recording output to the cassette recorder. If I recollect correctly, it was something like this:

Wire a 470k resistor in series with a 2.2k resistor, the free end of the 470k resistor was connected to the amp's recording output, the free end of the 2.2k resistor was connected to the ground while the tap (joined end of the 470k resistor and 2.2k resistor) was connected to the microphone input of the cassette recorder. Using this method we used to record many tapes without worring about using a microphone. Not sure about the quality of the recording though as we used to listen to our recordings on the cassette recorder without external amplification.

 

[eddie_fox]

Connecting the recording output of your amp to the Mic-In will definitely result in distorted sound. This is a challenge when you use laptops as very few of them have "Line-In" sockets. You'd need to connect your amp's recording output to the Line-In of a soundcard to get a distortion free recording. The input sensitivity and impedance of microphone inputs are very different from those of line inputs (or auxilary inputs) and hence the mismatch. On another note, you can try to monitor the sound that goes into your laptop using earphones. The sound in the earphones should be clear and distortion free for your recording to be good. In short, you can use a PC with a sound card with Line In and you should be fine.

If you are still bent on using your laptop's microphone input, I will share with you a trick which I used when I was in school. Back in those days, portable mono cassette recorders did not come with a Line-In and had only a microphone input. We kids never liked recording music using a microphone so I came up with a way to connect Dad's amp's recording output to the cassette recorder. If I recollect correctly, it was something like this:

Wire a 470k resistor in series with a 2.2k resistor, the free end of the 470k resistor was connected to the amp's recording output, the free end of the 2.2k resistor was connected to the ground while the tap (joined end of the 470k resistor and 2.2k resistor) was connected to the microphone input of the cassette recorder. Using this method we used to record many tapes without worring about using a microphone. Not sure about the quality of the recording though as we used to listen to our recordings on the cassette recorder without external amplification.

Thanks sir. Your electronic prowess when you were a kid was greatly better than my current ability as a grown adult. I am not sure I can recreate your trick. In fact, I did not understand it even...sorry.

But, I have a desktop with a 'creative' 24bit soundcard. I will check if that has a line-in. If not, can I purchase an external sound-card I can use with my laptop? Is there such a thing? Can you suggest any affordable ones?

Alternately, any other device (inexpensive and easily available) that I can connect and convert to digital files?

Thanks again.

 

[reubensm]

Thanks sir. Your electronic prowess when you were a kid was greatly better than my current ability as a grown adult. I am not sure I can recreate your trick. In fact, I did not understand it even...sorry.

But, I have a desktop with a 'creative' 24bit soundcard. I will check if that has a line-in. If not, can I purchase an external sound-card I can use with my laptop? Is there such a thing? Can you suggest any affordable ones?

Alternately, any other device (inexpensive and easily available) that I can connect and convert to digital files?

Thanks again.

The other option is to take the USB route. There are many phono preamps available with USB capability. You can easily wire these to your laptop and use audacity perfectly well. There are also small devices available which allow you to connect analogue sources to USB. Something like this:

 

[eddie_fox]

The other option is to take the USB route. There are many phono preamps available with USB capability. You can easily wire these to your laptop and use audacity perfectly well. There are also small devices available which allow you to connect analogue sources to USB. Something like this:

Thank you. Maybe a phono preamp is a better investment than a soundcard at this point in time, especially since I was thinking of adding a preamp anyway.
I will do some research on what to buy. But, any suggestions, anyone, off the top of your heads, for a decent and affordable preamp will help greatly.

Ta!

 

[reubensm]

The NAD PP3 has USB connectivity, suggesting NAD as I am a NAD guy but there are many other options out there. The advantage of the NAD PP3 is that you can also use it for connecting other sources (other than your turntable) as it features a switchable Line In. You can connect a cassette deck or Tuner here.

Here is a view of the back panel:

of course, the USB socket is mounted on the front panel:

 

[sachu888]

Hi Eddie

PM FM Murli_n. He is expert in this field.he is doing it since years.

Regards,
Sachin

 

[stevieboy]

Behringer: U-PHONO UFO202

I used to use a similar thing they have two similar models. Choice of using external or onboard phonostage. Might work for you

Regards

 

[Hiten]

(I thought, maybe it is because the output on the amp is line level and the mic input amplifies the signal again... just a guess! Is that possible? Is it why the distortion? Can I reduce the sensitivity of the line-in in the software?)

You can adjust the mic recording level in windows/control panel/sound/recoding menu in your laptop itself.
Regards.

 

[reubensm]

You can adjust the mic recording level in windows/control panel/sound/recoding menu in your laptop itself.
Regards.

Pls try this out and let us know the outcome. When I tried, it was still distorted even at very low level settings.

 

[eddie_fox]

Pls try this out and let us know the outcome. When I tried, it was still distorted even at very low level settings.

I will try this and let you guys know. Ta!

 

[Hiten]

Pls try this out and let us know the outcome. When I tried, it was still distorted even at very low level settings.

Bro,
Since eddie wanted to control level in recording I suggested an option.


Here is a sample.
https://soundcloud.com/user338630205/karuna
above sample was done few years back, on a whim, just to check. I think it was philips player with hardened ceramic cartridge. You can hear speed flctuation due to uneven idler. Output from ceramic cartridge was directly fed to line in of an old PC, Records were not clean, surface noise was cleaned using Adobe audition noise filter.

another comparatively good samples were here in post # 379 ...
http://www.hifivision.com/surround-amplifiers-receivers/4122-true-audiophile-38.html
but the links seems to be broken, Recording was clean, if I remember. Surprisingly they were 78s. I Will upload if I find those files again.
Regards.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

eddie. I suspect that your Creative Sound card probably does have a Line-In. your need to refer to the manual, which is probably online if you do not have the actual copy. This would work.

Here is another possible trick (Reubensm, what do you think of this?)...

Connect your deck output to your mic in direct. Do not use phono pre-amp and do not use amplifier. This will give you a very much lower signal that you just might be able to capture with the mic-in.

If this works at all, you will have a very thin-sounding recording, because the RIAA eq has not been applied. This is easy to fix ...Audacity can do it! You'll find it somewhere in the effects. Then, if you need, use the Amplify effect to increase the overall level.

But, if you have serious vinyl digitisation to do, you need a card/interface with line in. By the way, you can use that for your tapes too, so if like the phono amp in your amplifier, it might be more useful than en external phono amp.

If you do this, you should also look into using the tape-loop i/o on your amp.

Tape-Out to Line in on your sound card/interface
Line-out on your sound card/interface to Tape-In on your amp.

Your amp should have a source/monitor switch: you can use it to compare the sound from your deck to that from your sound card as you record.

By the way: I use Sound card and Sound Interface interchangably but I think interface as clearer as, whether internal or external, they do the same job.

 

[reubensm]

I tried a recording sample on my PC at home a few moments ago and here are my findings:

Technics SL3200 -> NAD 3020 Tape Out -> Microphone input: Heavy distortion at all microphone level settings (control panel, volume master)

Technics SL3200 -> NAD 3020 Tape Out -> Line input: Crystal clear recordings even with different level settings

Simply had to try this out as after my Church PA project is complete, I will be recording the church choir (on analogue tape) and transferring it to digital using this method, for the Church's use.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Could you try direct from the deck into the line-in?

I'm not really able to do that with my current setup, which is, at the moment only wired for DAC, and my on-the-shelf interface needs a balanced input.

 

[reubensm]

eddie. I suspect that your Creative Sound card probably does have a Line-In. your need to refer to the manual, which is probably online if you do not have the actual copy. This would work.

Here is another possible trick (Reubensm, what do you think of this?)...

Connect your deck output to your mic in direct. Do not use phono pre-amp and do not use amplifier. This will give you a very much lower signal that you just might be able to capture with the mic-in.

If this works at all, you will have a very thin-sounding recording, because the RIAA eq has not been applied. This is easy to fix ...Audacity can do it! You'll find it somewhere in the effects. Then, if you need, use the Amplify effect to increase the overall level.

But, if you have serious vinyl digitisation to do, you need a card/interface with line in. By the way, you can use that for your tapes too, so if like the phono amp in your amplifier, it might be more useful than en external phono amp.

If you do this, you should also look into using the tape-loop i/o on your amp.

Tape-Out to Line in on your sound card/interface
Line-out on your sound card/interface to Tape-In on your amp.

Your amp should have a source/monitor switch: you can use it to compare the sound from your deck to that from your sound card as you record.

By the way: I use Sound card and Sound Interface interchangably but I think interface as clearer as, whether internal or external, they do the same job.

The Shure M44-7 output is rated at around 9.5mv while a dynamic microphone's output varies between around 20mv for regular speech and can go up as far as around 40mv if used with loud musical instruments. Hence I suppose even the "loud" M44-7 will not have what it takes to drive the dynamic microphone input of a sound card. From an impedance perspective, the microphone input impedance varies between 600 ohms and 1k generally so some input load matching would be required. However, in principal, I would say that the output of a MM cart will be too low for the microphone input.

 

[reubensm]

Here's another version of the little circuit which we used as kids to connect our dad's amp's recording output to our little cassette recorder with only a mic input:

In the circuit used by us back in the day, R1 I think would have been 470K and R2 would have been 2.2k. I was in standard 5 at the time.

 

[reubensm]

Could you try direct from the deck into the line-in?

I'm not really able to do that with my current setup, which is, at the moment only wired for DAC, and my on-the-shelf interface needs a balanced input.

Cassette deck directly to the line input works perfectly well. I digitized an old cassette tape which dad recorded when I was about 3 or 4 years old, by this method. I was narrating my experiences of my first day at school on the tape.

When worldspace was up and running, I have recorded hours of programming from Up Country by connecting my worldspace radio to my amplifier and the tape output of the amp to the line input of the sound card

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Yes, I have done stuff like that too --- even feeding the headphone-out of a cheap radio alarm into my amplifier. Actually sounded amazingly good when not heard through its own 1" speaker!

 

[souravin]

Creative Sound Blaster external sound card works best in a budget environment. I use tape out from Sansui amp > line in of external sound card > USB in laptop Audacity.

Here is a sample of mono sound extracted from a old SP record (muvee Shaitaan)

Apna Samajh Ke SP Vinyl 16 bit mono.mp3 - DivShare

Record 24/96 in Audacity for good quality. I use Izotope RX advanced for cleaning, resampling and dithering for red book formation.

Shure M 44-7 has been used for ripping.