Anil kumar
Well-Known Member
Use Adobe Audition. Connect tape rec out from amp to your laptop using double RCA to EP pin. Tweak microphone volume for optimum level
Recording through Audacity..
- Thread starter eddie_fox
- Start date
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
Suggest recording in 32-bit-float if much processing is to be done. Apparently there are real reasons for this; the sample rate is more a matter of faith 
Hi guys,
Thanks all for the help.I finally found some time to try your tips and resume testing the recording processes. The result seems odd. I hope someone knowledgeable will be able to explain this better.
After a lot of tweaking with the mic levels (I had two levels - microphone and microphone boost under my laptop mic properties in 'recording', accessed from control panel). I tried various combinations, but found different levels of distortion in all the tweaks.
I finally, on a whim, reduced both microphone settings to zero. Lo, behold... the best recording thus far yet? I am not sure why this is. I then downloaded 'Adobe audition' to cross check and with the microphone levels set to 0, I still got a decent piece of digital conversion. I have attached the sound clips from both recordings (they can be downloaded from the following links):
1) Audacity - Down the waterline test - 0 m.flac - DivShare
2) Adobe.0 - Down the waterline test - mic 0 - f - DivShare
I just have a few queries follwoing the recording:
1. How is it that at mic level 0 on the laptop, I still could record? shouldn't it mute the input?
2. There seems to be a slight lag in the song of about 2 seconds, with a very low volume audio already preceding the louder song. It is noticeable, for example at 00.35 in the first file, when the bass line starts. You notice the bass line already playing behind about 2 seconds ahead of the louder audio. Why could this be?
3. The sound sensibilities seem a little forward/bright. Is it because of the conversion/format or is that how my source and amp play the music. Are my speakers making them slightly warmer, which is how I like it?
Thanks for your advice. I will stick to this process till I can buy a decent phono with usb. Any suggestions on improving the sound quality of the recordings?
Test constants:
Source - Technics 1200 + Ortofon OM20 cart
Amp - Rega Brio-r (Record out RCA)
input - laptop mic-in (3.5mm jack)
softwares - 1) Audacity, 2) Adobe audition
test track - 'Down to the waterline' from the self titled Dire Straits album
Thanks all for the help.I finally found some time to try your tips and resume testing the recording processes. The result seems odd. I hope someone knowledgeable will be able to explain this better.
After a lot of tweaking with the mic levels (I had two levels - microphone and microphone boost under my laptop mic properties in 'recording', accessed from control panel). I tried various combinations, but found different levels of distortion in all the tweaks.
I finally, on a whim, reduced both microphone settings to zero. Lo, behold... the best recording thus far yet? I am not sure why this is. I then downloaded 'Adobe audition' to cross check and with the microphone levels set to 0, I still got a decent piece of digital conversion. I have attached the sound clips from both recordings (they can be downloaded from the following links):
1) Audacity - Down the waterline test - 0 m.flac - DivShare
2) Adobe.0 - Down the waterline test - mic 0 - f - DivShare
I just have a few queries follwoing the recording:
1. How is it that at mic level 0 on the laptop, I still could record? shouldn't it mute the input?
2. There seems to be a slight lag in the song of about 2 seconds, with a very low volume audio already preceding the louder song. It is noticeable, for example at 00.35 in the first file, when the bass line starts. You notice the bass line already playing behind about 2 seconds ahead of the louder audio. Why could this be?
3. The sound sensibilities seem a little forward/bright. Is it because of the conversion/format or is that how my source and amp play the music. Are my speakers making them slightly warmer, which is how I like it?
Thanks for your advice. I will stick to this process till I can buy a decent phono with usb. Any suggestions on improving the sound quality of the recordings?
Test constants:
Source - Technics 1200 + Ortofon OM20 cart
Amp - Rega Brio-r (Record out RCA)
input - laptop mic-in (3.5mm jack)
softwares - 1) Audacity, 2) Adobe audition
test track - 'Down to the waterline' from the self titled Dire Straits album
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Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
The lag is about the same as the time taken for one rotation of the record?
I believe you are hearing a vinyl artifact that there should be a name for, which I don't know, but which I have experienced all my life.
I think it is some fault in the pressing that causes the "next" groove to affect the current one (yes, it is all one groove, but I hope you know what I mean
). I have always experienced this in the track gaps: one hears the beginning of the next track "one groove" ahead of it being played. In fact, this phenomenon has become so firmly entrenched in my brain, that it sometimes provides me with the experience even when listening to digital music where it is not actually there!I don't think I have ever heard it during a track. I guess it is masked by the music. I don't know for sure if it is a problem with the pressing or with the deck/stylus arm.
I think, perhaps, all this level stuff is allowing you to hear things you didn't hear before!
Digitising records is not difficult. It is not any more difficult that recording them to cassette as per olden days. The result, with even half-decent equipment should be better than cassette and hard to tell the difference with the original vinyl. What is difficult is the cleaning up, fixing of clicks, pops, etc, and removal of noise. This takes many, many times the actual recording time, and skill and experience counts. People with much more skill than I have have posted about it on the forum: best to search for their contributions. It is a real labour of love!
Tape has less dynamic range. It simply can't reproduce the enormous transient of a scratch heard direct from vinyl, so it will soften it a little. I used to listen to cassette recordings, rather than the original damaged LP, both for this effect and so as not to further punish the stylus.
Digital recording has no such scope for forgiveness! One has to do something about the worst clicks, at least.
Audition is a monster. I once spent hours downloading and installing a demo copy, and really didn't like it when I finished (I was actually willing to buy if I had done). It is like being plunged into Photoshop when all you need is Paint! It's ancestor, Cool Edit Pro, which Adobe bought, was actually just perfect. It had the power and functionality that pros needed, but felt easy to use for the rest of us. Sadly, I can no longer, for some weird microsoftian reason, get it to work in native WinXP, let alone Wine.
Audacity is also a bit monstrous, but it is the nearest thing to Cool Edit that we have in free software and it is amazingly good for the price!
reubensm
Well-Known Member
When I tried on my PC, I got different levels of distortion with the different microphone level control settings. With the microphone level at zero, the recording went silent.
eddie,
1) mic level : Did you turn off microphone boost when recording at 0 level ?
2) lag of song : vinyls distort with temperature and loud passages do spill over adjacent "micro" grooves. Some say vinyl is not good media for dynamic range, thats why we have 45 rpm singles with grooves further away from each other.
3) Brightness : so many things can cause it. Cartridge/phono pre/mic/laptop/software. I think if you have test record you can check response.
Regards.
1) mic level : Did you turn off microphone boost when recording at 0 level ?
2) lag of song : vinyls distort with temperature and loud passages do spill over adjacent "micro" grooves. Some say vinyl is not good media for dynamic range, thats why we have 45 rpm singles with grooves further away from each other.
3) Brightness : so many things can cause it. Cartridge/phono pre/mic/laptop/software. I think if you have test record you can check response.
Regards.
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I have no idea how this can be. As you can see in the print-screen image attached, I have turned the mic down to 0. It shows the same on the software indicators as well. Could it be the doing of the integrated amp?
Hi Hiten,
1. Both mic and mic boost levels were set to 0 (I attached the print-screen images to show that)
2. I will try newer records and 45s. Let me check
3. I don't have a test record. In fact, I have been wanting to 'warm' my setup sound without any major component replacement, or at least with minimal replacement. Unfortunately, I have maxed out on my purse on buying the top-end components in my budget. The only option, though a reluctant one, would be tryinga warmer cart instead of my OM20, maybe a Shure97xe or the AT440mla perhaps. Anyway, will stick to the current cart which is highly detailed and has a brilliant mid and high range. It only lacks a bit of low end bass. I will wait for a good deal online.
Btw, I wish/hope any of the Bangalore FMs might offer a test record or help me tune my setup. Thanks though.
hi,
Don't know how mic level at 0 is still recordable. Probably software/hardware error.
For personal occasional digitization use, let your ears be best judge. If you will be doing recording from vinyls regularly/professionaly than only buy/use a test record. I guess Desktop PCs have good audio chips compared to laptops and you can use line in too.
Regarding bass response, just enjoy your current setup. With upgrades you win some and loose some. You can use passive means like changing interconnects and speaker cables. Usually capacitance and resistance of cables changes the sound a little bit. (I guess more capacitance equals more resistance to high fqs.). I am blessed with tin ears. I can't hear Higher frequencies.
Regards
Don't know how mic level at 0 is still recordable. Probably software/hardware error.
For personal occasional digitization use, let your ears be best judge. If you will be doing recording from vinyls regularly/professionaly than only buy/use a test record. I guess Desktop PCs have good audio chips compared to laptops and you can use line in too.
Regarding bass response, just enjoy your current setup. With upgrades you win some and loose some. You can use passive means like changing interconnects and speaker cables. Usually capacitance and resistance of cables changes the sound a little bit. (I guess more capacitance equals more resistance to high fqs.). I am blessed with tin ears. I can't hear Higher frequencies.
Regards
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Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
I really think, and recommend, that, for anything else other than one-off casual digitisation, or digitisation for low-bit-rate mobile listening, investing in the right setup is worthwhile.
My own recording setup features an Echo Audiofire2 external (Firewire) interface. Before that I was using an RME card, which will quite likely remain the best audio interface in my life, but sadly does not work any longer. My usual recommendation, albeit repeating that of others, now, would be the Juli@ card: I have never heard a bad word about it, and it measure, in loop-back tests, up there with very costly equipment.
There might be, if cash were no object, others I'd prefer to buy (Lynx, RME, and one or two others) but considering the lack of unwanted protocols and functions and the presence of Linux support, the Juli@ just stands out as a sensible, modest-cost choice.
A desktop with a card like that is almost certainly going to be better than a laptop for serious recording. However, there are still wildcards in the game: you need a good, quiet power supply, and some motherboards are just not good at audio. Chances are, though, that you can turn your PC into a very high quality recording machine! ...and have lots of fun
I don't know about test records. Every recording you make is a test record: does it sound like the original? And... with the tape-loop setup I mentioned before, you can monitor as you record.
My own recording setup features an Echo Audiofire2 external (Firewire) interface. Before that I was using an RME card, which will quite likely remain the best audio interface in my life, but sadly does not work any longer. My usual recommendation, albeit repeating that of others, now, would be the Juli@ card: I have never heard a bad word about it, and it measure, in loop-back tests, up there with very costly equipment.
There might be, if cash were no object, others I'd prefer to buy (Lynx, RME, and one or two others) but considering the lack of unwanted protocols and functions and the presence of Linux support, the Juli@ just stands out as a sensible, modest-cost choice.
A desktop with a card like that is almost certainly going to be better than a laptop for serious recording. However, there are still wildcards in the game: you need a good, quiet power supply, and some motherboards are just not good at audio. Chances are, though, that you can turn your PC into a very high quality recording machine! ...and have lots of fun
I don't know about test records. Every recording you make is a test record: does it sound like the original? And... with the tape-loop setup I mentioned before, you can monitor as you record.
ANILKUMAR
Well-Known Member
I use the following setup to record vinyls.
1)
Dual 1019 TT -> Musical Fidelity PreAmp -> Laptop(Line In mode) with Audacity.
Just listen to a straight recording of a 1969 Vinyl in not so good condition with some skips.
"No additional signal processing" was performed.
There are some pops and clicks,but I enjoy that.
DivShare File - Swing-O-Spring.mp3
2)
In case If I require any channel wise input signal level adjustment , I pass on the PreAmp output through my age old Marantz PMD 720 mixer console and then to my Laptop. Found this console too good for MONO Vinyl/shellac recording.
1)
Dual 1019 TT -> Musical Fidelity PreAmp -> Laptop(Line In mode) with Audacity.
Just listen to a straight recording of a 1969 Vinyl in not so good condition with some skips.
"No additional signal processing" was performed.
There are some pops and clicks,but I enjoy that.
DivShare File - Swing-O-Spring.mp3
2)
In case If I require any channel wise input signal level adjustment , I pass on the PreAmp output through my age old Marantz PMD 720 mixer console and then to my Laptop. Found this console too good for MONO Vinyl/shellac recording.
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
It's a funny thing: I don't. I'm not sure why. I can tolerate them as part of the vinyl experience, but I am irritated by the same thing when digitised. I have two theories...
1. My brain expects better of digital.
2. Perhaps they do not sound the same digitised, due to clipping.
Well, all other things being equal, I'd rather listen to a clean digital recording when available. Disclosure: Where possible, I try to go that route, and have not done any LP digitising for a year or so. I have some tapes waiting on the shelf, though...
souravin
Well-Known Member
I am not a techie, somebody told me to record in 24/96 to capture the vinyl canvas. The input line in at volume 0.7 (Audacity) works best in my set up.
I do the cleaning through IZotope RX advanced with minimum cleaning process. Declick/ Decrackle and Decontsruct modules are enough to keep the vinyl flavour . Though there is denoise module which almost kills the warmth of sound but the output is super clean and metal sounding. I avoid that.
Cleaning through audacity captures the noise profile from silent portion before the song and applies the same throughout the rest of the song. So no room for manual cleaning- uneven distribution of clicks and pops are not to capable of taking this cleaning. This process is fourier transformation. See here for further information How Noise Removal Works - Audacity Wiki
Ex Numerus: How to Remove Noise from a Signal using Fourier Transforms: An Example in Python
The outlier in red co-ordinates indicate the noise separated from the song.
Even if the dither and resampling through Izotope is copy book and works finest.
I do the cleaning through IZotope RX advanced with minimum cleaning process. Declick/ Decrackle and Decontsruct modules are enough to keep the vinyl flavour . Though there is denoise module which almost kills the warmth of sound but the output is super clean and metal sounding. I avoid that.
Cleaning through audacity captures the noise profile from silent portion before the song and applies the same throughout the rest of the song. So no room for manual cleaning- uneven distribution of clicks and pops are not to capable of taking this cleaning. This process is fourier transformation. See here for further information How Noise Removal Works - Audacity Wiki
Ex Numerus: How to Remove Noise from a Signal using Fourier Transforms: An Example in Python
The outlier in red co-ordinates indicate the noise separated from the song.
Even if the dither and resampling through Izotope is copy book and works finest.
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
I've never been really happy with the before/after of this process, but still it is a tool and might be just perfect sometimes. A backup copy, experiment and the Undo function are great learning experiences. Try it all. See what happens. The only thing it costs is time! And that might well end up being well spent.
There is a simple reason for using 32-bit-float for your recording: all of these edits, noise removal, even amplification, fade-outs, etc, are basically calculation: calculation done in 32-bit float will be more accurate. The errors add up! This is why studios use high bit rates: because they do lots of stuff.
"Capturing more of the vinyl canvas" is just... well, somebody's opinion, I suppose, but I'd rather call it inaccurate prejudice
. After a few digitisation experiences, you will have a better idea of the analogue/digital thing than those who cleave to dogma. You will have learnt it from experience.
souravin
Well-Known Member
Dear Hiten,
Download Foobar from Download foobar2000 and optional components
Install WASAPI as a component from foobar2000: Components Repository - WASAPI output support
Install WASAPI wiyhin Foobar> preferences>components. Choose your sound output with "event" from Foobar> preferences>output.
This is best FLAC player for general digital listeners.
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