Rediscovery Speakers from Saptak Acoustics- Perfect two way tower speakers.

[Yelamanchili manohar]

One thing always gets my goat is that whenever an indigenous brand is discussed, many people come down demanding graphs, plots, design and what not. While they pay lakh happily to international brands without an iota of such details provided, I have seen some hundreds of thousands costing Amp not even disclosing whether it's Class A or AB, and people keep singing paeans and emptying pockets for them. For Indigenous products being good sounding, good build and good looking is not good enough for them.

More efforts is put in to drag down than appreciating. And most of this people do this without any first-hand experience. They have gall to berate first-hand and paid for experience of fellow members who have made grave sin of appreciating local brands.

I agree that demanding graphs to validate a design, when the end user is happy with the sound, is pointless. Especially when a relevant comparison has been made with the well regarded ATC speakers.
Though Iam not as upset as your good selves seem to be , but Iam with you in voicing my protest

 

[Phew]

One thing always gets my goat is that whenever an indigenous brand is discussed, many people come down demanding graphs, plots, design and what not. While they pay lakh happily to international brands without an iota of such details provided, I have seen some hundreds of thousands costing Amp not even disclosing whether it's Class D or AB, and people keep singing paeans and emptying pockets for them. For Indigenous products being good sounding, good build and good looking is not good enough for them.

More efforts is put in to drag down than appreciating. And most of this people do this without any first-hand experience. They have gall to berate first-hand and paid for experience of fellow members who have made grave sin of appreciating local brands.

If someone is planning to purchase something and paying its price then there is no reason he should not ask for information he needs regarding the product. Graphical measurements or demoing or specsheets or recommendations is someone's criteria for making a purchase then so be it, its their choice.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

If someone is planning to purchase something and paying its price then there is no reason he should not ask for information he needs regarding the product. Graphical measurements or demoing or specsheets or recommendations is someone's criteria for making a purchase then so be it, its their choice.

I get your drift

Though I always thought it was a weird way to select a speaker. But each to his own. So no qualms there.

But I don't see anyone asking for graphs in the plethora of other speaker related threads we have . I have no horse in this race. But getting objective subjectively, can be accused as prejudice.

 

[Phew]

But I don't see anyone asking for graphs in the plethora of other speaker related threads we have .

Because many of them(brands) are youtube heroes and some have measurements on online review sites, so people have already gone through them and formed an opinion before coming across a thread.

I have no horse in this race.

Great, else you might have had to answer a questionnaire.

But getting objective subjectively, can be accused as prejudice.

Agreed.

 

[aeroash]

There are a few things that make subjective reviews challenging to discern.

Subjective reviews/reviewers can be/are bought, a pervasive issue within the industry.
Different people may have varying definitions of what it means to be "bright.", whereas numerical data is universally comprehensible.
The multitude of variables, including room conditions and components, makes it challenging to pinpoint the exact factors influencing sound quality.

Unfortunately, for us, sound quality is a subjective perception influenced by individual preferences or post-purchase rationalisation.
Here is an example that went from the "end all DAC", at least from the description, to the "For Sale" section of the forum within 3 months.

Smsl d300

Hello friends, Has anyone experienced with Smsl d300 dac as I have purchased it and dying to try it in on my system.

www.hifivision.com

Spinorama data can present insights into how a speaker performs in terms of accuracy, dispersion, and distortion, which are important technical aspects. However, what sounds "good" to one person may not sound the same to another, as personal preferences for sound signatures can vary greatly, but, we at least know the validity of the foundation that it is being built.

It is easier to obtain data from a small local manufacturer than from a multinational corporation. What's essential for the manufacturer is that a sale is made, why not appease both camps while at it?

Edit: We are all impassioned, some more than others. Let's continue the discussion here. https://www.hifivision.com/threads/objectivity-vs-subjectivity.87638/
It's pure entertainment!

 

[arj]

It is really great that Indian brands are coming up well and its a really needed thing

Asking for data is not a "Insult" it is part of any due diligence one does and one will do for anyone unknown brand. The reason people buy a known brand is since a brand name is an assurance of quality. Eg Lyrita audio, Acoustic Portrait and Rethm are Indigenous brands and you do not see anyone having issue with that

A positive review on a forum, is not a assurance of quality but something which increases awareness of the brand which needs to to be validated in some way.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Subjective reviews are preferable to objective data, though the best thing is to have an in home demo.

Objective data only tells us if the output is deviating from the signal input, where, how and to what degree. This is nice and all if you like numbers instead of music but it doesn't tell a given individual how it will sound to them. You might get broad strokes of "too much treble" or "bloated bass" but in the end you need to hear it to see what it sounds like to you and if you like it or not.

The debate is an old one, I am semi retired from debates/online forums. I just listen to music now.

 

[arj]

Objective data only tells us if the output is deviating from the signal input, where, how and to what degree. This is nice and all if you like numbers instead of music but it doesn't tell a given individual how it will sound to them. You might get broad strokes of "too much treble" or "bloated bass" but in the end you need to hear it to see what it sounds like to you and if you like it or not.

I would go as far to say that negative reactions to this ask, IMHO ,is a way of initiating a slight mistrust in the brand itself..which is doing a disfavour to the manufacturer since while not everyone in the forum may looking at buying a speaker , so many of us may influence others not in the forum. In the end doing a home demo only happens after a certain selective filter and that will happen only if the brand is seen as worth investing in

The best way to listen is to listen oneself exactly as you have mentioned ( in bold)

The debate is an old one, I am semi retired from debates/online forums. I just listen to music now.

More power to you

 

[Vineethkumar01]

Now I see some of the same trends and faces/avatars in this thread now as in another 'local audio brand' thread from 2021.
The 'subjective' is superior bullying seems to have toned down a tiny bit though.
But it seems like, given a chance, people seems to be ready to spring in and wage an all out war.

Honestly, I feel like those who say that no objective data needs to published for a speaker, (whatever their original intentions are), are just doing a disservice to a brand or its growth beyond the confines of the proverbial "well" in which frogs live. One can only aspire to be "better than what they are" (whatever it is) when one studies, makes use of, and then advance the state of the art with respect to tools and techniques used by the best out there.

Oops.. I will try hard not to comment here further..

 

[keith_correa]

many people come down demanding graphs, plots, design and what not.

Can you please point out post/s where said "demand" was made?

While they pay lakh happily to international brands without an iota of such details provided,

Who is "they"? I'm assuming that these are the same people who according to you are making the "demand" right?

For Indigenous products being good sounding, good build and good looking is not good enough for them.

A statement? Or opinion?

More efforts is put in to drag down than appreciating.

Can you point out post/s where said efforts were made?

They have gall to berate first-hand and paid for experience of fellow members who have made grave sin of appreciating local brands.

Can you point out post/s where said berating was done?

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

I would go as far to say that negative reactions to this ask, IMHO ,is a way of initiating a slight mistrust in the brand itself..which is doing a disfavour to the manufacturer since while not everyone in the forum may looking at buying a speaker , so many of us may influence others not in the forum. In the end doing a home demo only happens after a certain selective filter and that will happen only if the brand is seen as worth investing in

The best way to listen is to listen oneself exactly as you have mentioned ( in bold)



More power to you

Thank you.

I only wish more of what I was interested in was available for demo. Forget in home demo, even in store would be something. I always have to order without listening based on talking to people. The measured objective data available is of no help. Thankfully I am able to gauge some things speaking to people and reading subjective views of people who own/have heard the product on forums, this has worked well. Personally I find the comparative views to products I have heard to be most helpful. The trick is to pay attention to people who approach this as music and not a science experiment to "perfect" in their own way.

 

[Yogesh]

Can you point out post/s where said berating was done?

My post was in general. What I said has been happening here.

Our Indian inferiority complex invariably gets better of us. Indian products face too much prejudice against them. People get too demanding and less accommodating about them.

 

[keith_correa]

My post was in general. What I said has been happening here.

Generalising is fine provided there were any posts that actually said what you claimed and then you take those posts to generalize. If not, then it is called a fertile imagination.

Our Indian inferiority complex invariably gets better of us. Indian products face too much prejudice against them. People get too demanding and less accommodating about them.

That's rubbish, is racist and is getting over defensive over a trivial ask. Who determines how much is "too demanding"? It's not a freebie so why should anyone be accommodating which implies compromising when paying for a commodity?

When folks ask for videos/audio clips to be recorded and posted to determine how any speaker sounds, we don't see such indignation - isn't that being demanding too? But that's being subjective and fits our subjective view so it's OK to let that slide, right? Not!

Specifically on measurements - on DIYA, the designer posted some measurements for a 1.0 version of this speaker despite no one there asking for them. Why can't that disclosure be applied for this release? And it's fine even if the designer didn't want to show a measure - it's his prerogative and let people conclude what they may by that stance. Why go after someone/anyone who requests for information?

BTW, for the uninformed, allow me to clarify: No measurement can fully show how a speaker actually sounds like and that is NOT the intent behind asking for measurements. But there are certain attributes of the speaker that are revealed in measurements and I'm sure that many people may find it interesting to look at that. That doesn't make these people "measurement focused" - it's just a misinformed assumption that one makes when they label people thus.

Asking for measurements is simply akin to asking a Maruti or Tata car salesman - "kitna deti hai?". And if his response would be that I was an Indian with an inferiority complex and that I was prejudiced towards a desi brand - I would aim for his gonads!

 

[Kannan]

A user/users may like the way a speakers sounds in his room or for that matter the benefits that an amp or a DAC brings to his setup irrespective of the technicalities. I will not even call it subjective as it is that users objective, i.e to have a good sounding setup.
In such scenarios, if he writes his experience in a thread, then someone calling for technical details is not the OPs prerogative, as his choice of the purchase in the 1st place was probably not based on such criterion.

But again, taking offense on the fact that someone asked for technical details just because it is an Indian product is all rubbish.

But then, when threads are up to primarily promote a product, like in this case as the OP has pointed out later, then it becomes imminent to provide details when asked for. Or such threads should be under the paid category of brand promotion.
This was the scenario when it came to a brand in 2021.

I find this disturbing trend in DIY threads also. Lots of self praising and pictures of end products but with no details. In my opinion these are just tools of free marketing and trapping buyers.
DIY inherently means Do it Yourself...where the You refers to the readers of the thread and not the thread owner or the DIYer.
The inherent meaning of DIY is that I am sharing full details of my builds for others to follow and build on their own or to get it made by the DIYer. That is the true spirit of DIY....
look at such threads in diyaudio for example.....our own many Indians including hifivision members have full detailed threads there.

 

[Vineethkumar01]

For those interested, if you are part of DIYAudio group on facebook, you can see more construction pics of the below 3way speaker that was posted earlier in this thread.
Facebook pics link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2262752904/user/1718899777


I am not sharing those pics here since the designer or others approved by the designer to do so may share such details. But I can see a lot of potential with this speaker in many aspects. All high-end SB acoustics low distortion drivers. slanted baffle for easier time-alignment between mid and tweeter (if that is a priority for those interested), chamfered baffle around mid and tweeter for easier directivity matching and solidly built enclosures (from the designer's posts on facebook. He has even shown the pics of crossover in the comments there).

As I said, there is great potential for it to be a great measuring and sounding speaker but sharing measurements can take out all the above guesswork. It directly presents such relevant engineering details. Now, whether it all adds up together to make a great-sounding speaker is up to each interested person to hear the speaker in his/her preferred environment and decide.

 

[Hiten]

Anyone knows if there are any future plans by Mr. Suman Jana to make 3 way sealed speakers based on classic drivers type and sizes. like dome tweeter, 3/4 inch mid and around 8/10 inch woofer ?
thanks and regards.

 

[DB1989]

For those interested, if you are part of DIYAudio group on facebook, you can see more construction pics of the below 3way speaker that was posted earlier in this thread.
Facebook pics link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2262752904/user/1718899777
View attachment 79813

I am not sharing those pics here since the designer or others approved by the designer to do so may share such details. But I can see a lot of potential with this speaker in many aspects. All high-end SB acoustics low distortion drivers. slanted baffle for easier time-alignment between mid and tweeter (if that is a priority for those interested), chamfered baffle around mid and tweeter for easier directivity matching and solidly built enclosures (from the designer's posts on facebook. He has even shown the pics of crossover in the comments there).

As I said, there is great potential for it to be a great measuring and sounding speaker but sharing measurements can take out all the above guesswork. It directly presents such relevant engineering details. Now, whether it all adds up together to make a great-sounding speaker is up to each interested person to hear the speaker in his/her preferred environment and decide.

There's no such thing as bad publicity.

 

[souban82]

Hi Vineeth,

I am sure they may be sounding great.
The finishing looks excellent .

Rgs,
Nitin

Hi Nitin. Please find the link to an AV clip of the three way RaginiBe.

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

 

[smnjn]

Anyone knows if there are any future plans by Mr. Suman Jana to make 3 way sealed speakers based on classic drivers type and sizes. like dome tweeter, 3/4 inch mid and around 8/10 inch woofer ?
thanks and regards.

I am in search of suitable drivers for that. For mids and tweeters options are plenty but not so the woofers.

 

[Nitin K]

Hi Nitin. Please find the link to an AV clip of the three way RaginiBe.

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

Thank you Souban.

Rgs,
Nitin