Rotel RA-12
- Thread starter askii2
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pushkarDighe
Member
Hi Amit,
Did you check with Audio Vision at New Empire Talkies, Fort Mumbai (AudioVision India :: Home)
Thank you,
PushkarDighe
Did you check with Audio Vision at New Empire Talkies, Fort Mumbai (AudioVision India :: Home)
Thank you,
PushkarDighe
RA-12 contains a DAC as well. That's my primary interest in this amp. Arcam a19 is no doubt good. If I decide to go for DAC + amplifier combination, I'll look at beresford DAC and one of these amplifiers.
M
mpw
Guest
pls consider that everything is built to a price.
I am of the view that a good DAC and a good Amp must be separate considerations.
anyways YMMV
mpw
I am of the view that a good DAC and a good Amp must be separate considerations.
anyways YMMV
mpw
rulaifozhu
New Member
If I decide to go for DAC + amplifier combination, I'll look at beresford DAC and one of these amplifiers.
SatMumbai
Active Member
How do you find the sound of B&W 685? IS this tending to be bright or warm?
IMO, 685s have a good bass and tend to sound a bit warm (depending on the upstream components) and Rotel pairs pretty good with it given that Rotel presentation is slightly lean.
If you prefer much warmer sound than what you are getting from 685, then NAD would be consideration.
I have not listened to the DAC in RA-12 critically (read it as the system I am thoroughly familiar with) but it would be in the same ballpark as the Beresford DAC. I have had some versions of Beresford DAC long time back and I would not keep my hopes too high with this DAC. Audiolab M-DAC is the price point at which I am able to see that the DAC has substantial improvement. Below that there is only presentation difference IMO
I am a big fan of all-in-ones, especially DACs built-in to amps or streamers/source and even better a full blown system which can play, DAC, amp.
At the end of the day, it is your preference of sound that matters and I have a feeling that RA-12 will pair very well with 685s to your liking
IMO, 685s have a good bass and tend to sound a bit warm (depending on the upstream components) and Rotel pairs pretty good with it given that Rotel presentation is slightly lean.
If you prefer much warmer sound than what you are getting from 685, then NAD would be consideration.
I have not listened to the DAC in RA-12 critically (read it as the system I am thoroughly familiar with) but it would be in the same ballpark as the Beresford DAC. I have had some versions of Beresford DAC long time back and I would not keep my hopes too high with this DAC. Audiolab M-DAC is the price point at which I am able to see that the DAC has substantial improvement. Below that there is only presentation difference IMO
I am a big fan of all-in-ones, especially DACs built-in to amps or streamers/source and even better a full blown system which can play, DAC, amp.
At the end of the day, it is your preference of sound that matters and I have a feeling that RA-12 will pair very well with 685s to your liking
SatMumbai
Active Member
Hi, I used to think the same before but now-a-days I have a slightly different view point.
Everything is built (read as sold) to a 'consumer perceived / manufacturer expected' price. Let me explain.
Goldenear speakers are such a great example. A brand from nowhere (to me, atleast), gives such wonderful speakers with built-in active subs and the competition thinks 'this will pass away, we will be able to sell the brand like before' and they do still. I was one of such gullible brand first guy. But I learnt to trust my ears with progress of time and it works much better this way!
Even Oppo with a brilliant DAC (+player, + streamer, + bluray, + processor) and at such a low price in USD or even landed price. It is truly unbelievable and makes me wonder what other sub 5K USD priced DAC can offer more / better than a different house sound.
It is just some thoughts that I wanted to scribble to share some experience. I am taking your statement as a cue to write this up and nothing against your experiences. Apologies if this reads in any way other than thought sharing.
I agree both
(1) Prices are based on their products based on manufacturer R&D, processes, brand value, competition, raw material costs. etc. They are also based on taxes, distributor/dealer inventories, retailing cost, etc. Manufacturer R&D and raw material costs do have a substantial effect on prices. So prices do represent audio quality to a large extent.
(2) Cost isn't directly proportional to the ability to reproduce audio with least distortion. This is because other factors also come into play. In some of the previous audiophile meets at Pune, we have seen all examples - low price-low quality, high price-high quality, high price-odd sound, high price-low quality, great looks-low quality, etc.
(1) Prices are based on their products based on manufacturer R&D, processes, brand value, competition, raw material costs. etc. They are also based on taxes, distributor/dealer inventories, retailing cost, etc. Manufacturer R&D and raw material costs do have a substantial effect on prices. So prices do represent audio quality to a large extent.
(2) Cost isn't directly proportional to the ability to reproduce audio with least distortion. This is because other factors also come into play. In some of the previous audiophile meets at Pune, we have seen all examples - low price-low quality, high price-high quality, high price-odd sound, high price-low quality, great looks-low quality, etc.
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I talked to Rotel distributors at the what hi fi show in Mumbai. They don't have any dealers in Pune, so I would have to visit their showroom in Mumbai. Interestingly I had written them an email and got no reply. If they had replied with this information, I would have planned on visiting their showroom as well since I had gone to Bandra. Unplanned visit wasn't possible.
Later I talked to Lakozy - NAD's distributors who enlightened me about NAD 356BEE DAC amplifier. I checked it's specs on line, specwise it is better than RA-12. So I auditioned it and then decided to buy it. Got it's delivery today. Read more in this section.
Thanks for everyone's advice.
Later I talked to Lakozy - NAD's distributors who enlightened me about NAD 356BEE DAC amplifier. I checked it's specs on line, specwise it is better than RA-12. So I auditioned it and then decided to buy it. Got it's delivery today. Read more in this section.
Thanks for everyone's advice.
I have earlier got quotes for ROTEL from AV Xcellence and Future Living in Pune. you might want to check with them. They do not stock it but can order. They are dealers for B&W and Rotel.
That's precisely the reason why I dropped Rotel and went for NAD. I took my speakers to the showroom and listened to them with the amplifier. That was the only way of ensuring that I liked the combination. While both NAD and B&W are balanced, one should only trust own ears when it comes to audio. After what's good for one person may not be as good for another.
Flash
Well-Known Member
Beg to Differ
I have the 685's
Paired with Rotel Monos + Emo USP1 Preamp
I also have a Arcam A28 paired with a Vintage Bookshelf...
I have experimented using Arcam as a Integrated as well as the Arcam as a Pre using Rotel for Power ...
Arcam & B&W = Crappy Synergy .
Too warm and boring and lacks the punchy sound that the Rotel/ Emo + B&W delivers
Plus the Arcam A19 is way underpowered for the 685.
the 600 series shine when they are given enough juice .
FM rudawg aka Sarin stayed at my house for 3 days in May and we played the B&W with Arcam for 2 days ( 2-3 hours a day) and then shifted it to the Rotel setup .. the Difference was night and day
Fair enough Flash. Can also be the difference of genere of music that i listened to and preffer or can be the source which shined better with arcam then rotel. moreover i was not comparing Mono's with integrated.
Plus if Arcam is underpowered for B&W then i am sure Rotel RA 12 will be underpowered as well since Rotel produces 10 extra watt.
Flash
Well-Known Member
Possibly ..
A lot has to do with the genre of music / taste / and lets not forget the room.
also a lot has to do with which Rotel Amp it was paired with . Some of the older series are not all that great. They sound a little unrefined and brash so to speak. f it was a RA 02 or one of the new gen basic models then yes Power palyed a factor
With most Rotels/ NAD's they are usually conservatively so a 60 or 70 watter from Rotel usually pushes a lot more.
The 685's dip down to 3.7 ohms which again is pretty demanding on the Amp. so thats why as stated earlier . Feed them adequate power and they sing / really sing
Give them less and you would wonder why they cost 40k -50k cause they sound like crap
685's have a guaranteed minimum impedence of 3.7 ohms. So they may go down to 4Ohms or so during usual audio tracks. NAD C 356 BEE rated at 80W@8ohm can push out 220W of dynamic power at 4Ohms. That's a lot! Note that it's not that it can't supply enough current to sustain 220W, it's just that it's heat sinks are designed to dissipate power only when supplying 80W to speakers. So supplying 220W momentarily is ok.
Rotel doesn't publish dynamic power figures, but looking at power consumption, I have a hunch that Rotel amps also have similar capabilities.
Rotel doesn't publish dynamic power figures, but looking at power consumption, I have a hunch that Rotel amps also have similar capabilities.
Flash
Well-Known Member
Aski
THe NAD 356 is more than adequate to power the 685's. Synergy wise not too sure though . I heard them paired once at ruenigma house it did sound a little tubby in the midrange. But then again we each have a different perception of sound
Here is the link
http://www.hifivision.com/speakers/33946-b-w-685-a.html#post449580
Ozzstriker
Member
Unless your components both up and downstream of your components are top notch, don't expect to hear a substantial difference using a stand alone DAC. Again, depending on how anal you want to be about separation and depth, don't expect more than a 5% difference......
Ozzstriker
Member
I meant up and downstream of your DAC......
Purchase the Audiolab 6000A Integrated Amplifier at a special offer price.
