Samsung 64e8000 - pixel flickering/dancing around?

[nSinghal]

I have not looked at the video posted. But if I remember from the days when I was shopping, I had looked at 65VT30. I do not remember seeing large dancing dots/pixels or snowy picture from a distance of 8/9 feet. I feel that the following problems may exist:

- bad reception/signal (what is the source?)
- STB or BDP may be bad
- bad motherboard

Source is tata sky HD+. There's another tv still in the room (42" LG led) so I connected that to see if there was some problem with the box/wires (that was my first guess too). Nothing seems to be wrong with tata sky.

It is unlikely that the panel itself is bad. I don't think that callibration is the answer. Callibration is to improve picture quality - contrast, brightness, tone, sharpness, colour saturation, etc. Even without callibration, with the TV out of the box, you should not see dancing pixels from 2 feet onwards and further.

Why don't you look around in shops at other (plasma) TVs of similar size? Also, have a Samsung engineer look at the TV.

Yeah, that's what I plan to do once I get the chance. Hopefully today itself.

 

[shaiju_o_thomas]

Okay. Did the Samsung technicians visit?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

 

[nSinghal]

I haven't even complained yet. No point in wasting my time with them only to end up being told by them that its the way it's supposed to be. These tech guys are known to do that even if there is a genuine problem, especially when they turn out to be inexperienced or just plain idiots. Once I've checked out more plasmas from both panasonic and samsung today, I'll call them if I think this tv is not what's considered normal for plasma.

 

[adder]

Stop posting irrelevant pic and give wrong example, if you don't understand the OP then stay away from the thread.

This pic was posted by you a long while ago here stating you took it from AVS,a member has already explained which i also agree with him that the pic on the right has banding which is not related to pixel dancing or dithering, so without relevance to the issue stating the pic on right is what the OP is seeing is laughable.If we talk about banding what the last pic exhibits then i must say i have seen LCD monitors with much worse banding than what i have seen in any plasma.

Well i very well know that i posted it before that is why i posted it again.I never said it was actually taken from a plasma i said "is it something similar to this".Have you ever seen banding or know the term ,the banding doesn't looks nothing like the last picture.Anyway whether you agree are not i don't give a damn.

 

[manish1283]

Make sure your 3D is off

 

[longshanks]

I see banding in the pics both horizontal and vertical, i suggest you demo other plasma's from Samsung and Panasonic and so similar tests to understand the plasma pic quality, if this plasma is still under warranty call Samsung and get it replaced, do this ASAP before its too late.

But i still don't understand the screen door effect you are talking about,is the ripple effect what i see in the pic? if yes then that will be visible only when shot through still or a video camera but not the naked human eye.

By the way the Epson projector you have is an LCD projector so it wont dither or have banding but from what i have seen it wont have the picture depth,details of a plasma or the actual non processed sharpness of a plasma,only top end CRT projectors from barco and sony will have that kind of sharpness and depth.

Read that AVS thread and also i suggest you post whatever you posted here in AVS as well, you will get even more in depth answers from actual owners of this television.

Have you ever seen banding or know the term ,the banding doesn't looks nothing like the last picture.Anyway whether you agree are not i don't give a damn.

sure i most defiantly don't know the term banding which you may have imagined but i sure know what is color banding which the last image exhibits and which you may never understand.

The person who posted the orginal pic in AVS says this:

Third one is image with bit depth reduced to 4bit/channel. Notice color banding.



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/Colour_banding_example01.png

The first pic has a lot of banding, second one is dithered to make the banding less apparent, this is precisely what the original poster of the pic tried to do with the third pic and he himself explained that in bold using easily understandable English.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/543222/dlp-banding-test

Pioneer Kuro 5020 colour banding? - Blu-ray Forum

http://www.avsforum.com/t/858455/the-official-pioneer-8g-kuro-owners-discussions-thread/15990

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1436320/sony-950-or-sharp-elite#post_22538557

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1436320/sony-950-or-sharp-elite#post_22537624





Unwanted posterization, also known as banding, may occur when the color depth, sometimes called bit depth, is insufficient to accurately sample a continuous gradation of color tone. As a result, a continuous gradient appears as a series of discrete steps or bands of color hence the name. When discussing fixed pixel displays, such as LCD and plasma televisions, this effect is referred to as false contouring.[1] The result may be compounded further by an optical illusion, called the Mach band illusion, in which each band appears to have an intensity gradient in the direction opposing the overall gradient. This problem may be resolved, in part, with dithering.


source :
Who am i kidding, you always have posted so much nonsense.May be you have our banding theory which the rest of the world may not agree.I bet you own an LCD which could suffer from clouding and banding which may not be banding according you and your little world.

 

[adder]

I

sure i most defiantly don't know the term banding which you may have imagined but i sure know what is color banding which the last image exhibits and which you may never understand.

The person who posted the orginal pic in AVS says this:

Third one is image with bit depth reduced to 4bit/channel. Notice color banding.



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/Colour_banding_example01.png

The first pic has a lot of banding, second one is dithered to make the banding less apparent, this is precisely what the original poster of the pic tried to do with the third pic and he himself explained that in bold using easily understandable English.

Unwanted posterization, also known as banding, may occur when the color depth, sometimes called bit depth, is insufficient to accurately sample a continuous gradation of color tone. As a result, a continuous gradient appears as a series of discrete steps or bands of color hence the name. When discussing fixed pixel displays, such as LCD and plasma televisions, this effect is referred to as false contouring.[1] The result may be compounded further by an optical illusion, called the Mach band illusion, in which each band appears to have an intensity gradient in the direction opposing the overall gradient. This problem may be resolved, in part, with dithering.


source :
Who am i kidding, you always have posted so much nonsense.May be you have our banding theory which the rest of the world may not agree.I bet you own an LCD which could suffer from clouding and banding which may not be banding according you and your little world.

The person who made that picture said "I I made image series to demonstrate dithering."which is why i posted here and in the other thread years ago and i asked the TS of this thread if he is seeing a image of similar effect.

I don't about the rest of your theory and don't know how its relevant to what i posted.

 

[shanmune]

Is this normal? Unlike LCD/led where all pixels are like a paint on the screen (fixed,clear and permanent), on the samsung, the pixels seem like they are dancing around (bad descriptions but I hope you get the idea). As if they were flickering or something. It's not as much visible when viewed from 10 feet (but still noticable) but if you get closer, the pixels look like they're moving around and changing color (somewhat like the black and white noise screen when you get no signal on an analog tv connection) instead of showing a fixed color even when the image is paused. I don't see any such issue in any of the TVs I've seen so far. Not even on the projector I have no matter how close I'm standing.

Is this normal? I tried to fiddle around with settings a bit to see if there was some sort of anti IR function which was causing this flickering and changed a few options but nothing helped. I have seen only one other plasma tv when I auditioned panasonics last year and there I was sitting 5 feet away but don't remember any such issue (but admittedly, that was a long time ago). Also remember trying out 51e8000 around the same time and don't think I saw any such issue there either.

Is there something wrong with this particular unit? Or is this how plasmas work? Atleast Samsung's? If that's the case then this tv, or any other plasma, is not worth it IMHO. It looks like crap. Most people probably won't notice it but I find it hard to believe that even online reviewers will miss something like this.

Please help me figure out what's wrong here.

As others have already pointed out, it might be related to dithering. Some people describe it as sparking pixels. All plasmas have dithering. Plasma dithering might be misunderstood as a negative phenomena, but actually it serves some positive stuff as well for PQ. Dithering happens as some voltage pulses (pulse width modulation) need to be sent to a pixel in some particular pattern to reproduce a color. The pulse patterns applied on a pixel determines the color to be reproduced by that pixel. At the same time, it is impossible to reproduce certain color combinations by a pixel. In that case, the pulse pattern applied on the pixel will make the pixel to sparkle or dither. It is actually trying to display the color as natural as possible rather than artificially introducing some other color which can be easily reproduced. That is, certain colors cannot be reproduced easily and the plasma pixels try it's best to potray those colors and in that process, the pixels sparkle. This could be avoided by inserting some other artifical colors (which could be easily reproduced) into the pixels and avoid dithering, but plasmas are not doing it (actually it cannot do that rather than saying it is not doing that intentionally) and that is why it is able to potray shadow details as natural as possible. So it is a blessing in disguise. The negative part is the viewer will be distracted if viewed from close distance. The positive part is shadow details, which are generally very difficult to be displayed, are shown accurately.

In fact, kuro has heavy dithering when compared to other brands, but they add up for excellent PQ. If I remember correctly, Chad B (a reputed calibrator) once mentioned that he was initially distracted with the dithering on his GT50 plasma, but later he found that the dithering noise was adding lot of accuracy to shadow details.

Having said that, I guess you are seeing the dithering even at 10 feet because you have a very big screen. As other suggested, you can try few settings which can reduce the dithering. Still - I would say that you double check with some other plasma models in the show rooms. Probably you can take few images/clips in your pen drive and check with other models for your own peace of mind. I very much feel this is not a problem with your set, but still go for double confirmation.

If you are interested in getting more details on plasma dithering. please refer this excellent link which contains some technical details which are presented in a simple manner. Though this link talks about Panasonic plasmas, it applies for all plasmas.
Panasonic Plasma - great picture produced by heavy dithering | AVForums.com - UK Online

 

[longshanks]

The person who made that picture said "I I made image series to demonstrate dithering."which is why i posted here and in the other thread years ago and i asked the TS of this thread if he is seeing a image of similar effect.
I don't about the rest of your theory and don't know how its relevant to what i posted.

earlier you said

I assume you are seeing something similar to picture on the right vs the normal picture from the left.

but the person who made this pic says :

Third one is image with bit depth reduced to 4bit/channel. Notice color banding.

So the right side picture demonstrates color banding and not pixel dancing,the person so posted picture says when he removed dithering color banding occurs in the right side pic(3rd pic)the what the OP is facing is dithering or pixel dancing hence your example pointing the right side pic makes no sense.

 

[adder]

earlier you said



but the person who made this pic says :

Third one is image with bit depth reduced to 4bit/channel. Notice color banding.

So the right side picture demonstrates color banding and not pixel dancing,the person so posted picture says when he removed dithering color banding occurs in the right side pic(3rd pic)the what the OP is facing is dithering or pixel dancing hence your example pointing the right side pic makes no sense.

The person who made the picture said "I made image series to demonstrate dithering" and those images are all made to illustrate the difference of normal vs dithering.

I said does it look "something similar to this" which should explain itself.When the OP is not sure what he saw or doesn't know the exact term, my post is perfectly logical considering i posted the non magnified image.Do you really think i would have not known what i posted or what the person who made that picture wrote.

 

[nSinghal]

Okay, finally got the chance to check out other plasmas. Unfortunately, either I forgot where the panasonic brand shop is situated or they shut it down and moved someplace else, but couldn't find the shop where I had auditioned Panny plasmas. Went to another av dealer. They only had a samsung plasma (50" D400 something series) and no 64" on display. This panel had no such issue. I couldn't see any such noise there no matter how close I got to the screen. And I got real close. Less than 6" away. Nothing at all. So I think its safe to assume that what I'm seeing on my plasma is not how its supposed to be. Wether its something inherently wrong with all 64e8000 models or its just my TV set, its not something I'm going to accept. Will be calling samsung guys tomm. I'll update the thread once they visit.

 

[longshanks]

I mean if you don't see any dancing pixels up close in a D400 then there is no way E8000 will have this issue, your television must have a problem then, get it replaced.

 

[fragpic]

I too have the same set,never noticed any issue like the one you mentioned.
Get it replaced through warranty