sound card with good digital out ?

[BLASTO]

Theoretical, rather than experience-based, but my understanding is that the advantage of the single-box CD Player is the closely linked transport and DAC which does not allow timing errors. Once you break this relationship, the transport is just a thing that gets bits from an optical drive: a PC can do that just as well, if not better, than a device sold into the hifi market.

Can someone explain the digital outs of different devices sounding different with SAME DAC and SAME speakers and interconnects?

Its all confusing as of now.

We did the A/B/C comparo with same DAC with different digital inputs ie PC, DVD Player and CDP and clearly the CDP came out as winner.

DVDP was 60% as good and PC was more like 50% or worse.

How is it possible with DIGITAL signal transmission is the question.

Can anyone explain the scenario?

Also, Does better optical cable add to the experience?

 

[jai1611]

Theoretical, rather than experience-based, but my understanding is that the advantage of the single-box CD Player is the closely linked transport and DAC which does not allow timing errors. Once you break this relationship, the transport is just a thing that gets bits from an optical drive: a PC can do that just as well, if not better, than a device sold into the hifi market.

My experience is that there are quite audible differences between various CDPs used as CD transport. There might well be similar differences between PC transports as well.

The issue with PC transports to my mind is that neither pcs nor sound cards are really designed keeping only digital audio output in mind. Most pro sound cards are recording oriented while PCs themselves are multipurpose machines. While theoretically one should be able to match the quality of a world class CD transport with a pc, practically this is difficult.

 

[jai1611]

Can someone explain the digital outs of different devices sounding different with SAME DAC and SAME speakers and interconnects?

Its all confusing as of now.

We did the A/B/C comparo with same DAC with different digital inputs ie PC, DVD Player and CDP and clearly the CDP came out as winner.

DVDP was 60% as good and PC was more like 50% or worse.

How is it possible with DIGITAL signal transmission is the question.

Can anyone explain the scenario?

Also, Does better optical cable add to the experience?

Quality of data recovery as well the signal itself can differ. Look at some comparisons of CD transports on the old lampizator site - he has plotted sine waves for various players' digital output

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

My experience is that there are quite audible differences between various CDPs used as CD transport. There might well be similar differences between PC transports as well.

The issue with PC transports to my mind is that neither pcs nor sound cards are really designed keeping only digital audio output in mind. Most pro sound cards are recording oriented while PCs themselves are multipurpose machines. While theoretically one should be able to match the quality of a world class CD transport with a pc, practically this is difficult.

Of course, I can't prove anything, but I am of the school that says data is data --- But, assuming a digital output*, that data must be formatted according to that protocol of that output. If a difference can really be heard between the spdif output from a PC's cheapo onboard chip and the spdif output from an expensive soundcard, then there must be a difference in that spdif data. Otherwise...

Can someone explain the digital outs of different devices sounding different with SAME DAC and SAME speakers and interconnects?

...no. Well, I certainly can't!

Probably I'm more of a PC/computer person than a HifFi person, having worked with the things for a couple of decades, and I don't admit that the bits arriving at the sound board/chip on the PC can vary. Computers have a tradition of accuracy!

It is a mystery to me. It is something of a theoretical mystery, as I use analogue out anyway, not digital --- but the whole area of computer audio still interests me.


*Assuming an analogue output, then we have all the variety of sound possible with any range of sound equipment. It becomes our source, and sources vary. Although (there is always a but, or an although!) there is a great demonstration of the "differences" (ie lack of) between a budget card and an expensive dac, and also a great demonstration of the transparency of said budget card, achieved by showing how little the sound has changed after multiple-generation copies in/out of the card. All that done by Ethan Winer, I've probably posted the links...

 

[jai1611]

Of course, I can't prove anything, but I am of the school that says data is data --- But, assuming a digital output*, that data must be formatted according to that protocol of that output. If a difference can really be heard between the spdif output from a PC's cheapo onboard chip and the spdif output from an expensive soundcard, then there must be a difference in that spdif data. Otherwise...
...no. Well, I certainly can't!

I'm not an engineer so cant say what should/shouldnt be. With most things audio, I go by what I can hear (which often throws up some fairly counter-intuitive things).

 

[svenkateshsmart]

Probably I'm more of a PC/computer person than a HifFi person, having worked with the things for a couple of decades, and I don't admit that the bits arriving at the sound board/chip on the PC can vary. Computers have a tradition of accuracy!

It is a mystery to me. It is something of a theoretical mystery, as I use analogue out anyway, not digital --- but the whole area of computer audio still interests me.

Again, +1 to this. I was referring to the same in my previous thread. As far as Digital signals, there should not be really any difference in the digital out of CD and digital out of PC, as long as the data (bits/sampling rate) remains the same.

 

[s_sachin]

Dacmagic sounds better fed from CD player than from Airport Express. | Computer Audiophile

this thread seems relevant to what i am facing.

Also someone is recommended Juli as transport.
"If you have a desktop which can be located with your audio equipment; you could consider adding a Xonar HDAV 1.3 Slim, ESi Juli@ card (both available around 100) or a Musical Fidelity V-Link (90) and switch to J.river ($50) or Foobar (Free) as your player. Digital connection from the sound card to the DAC should improve your output quality"

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Again, +1 to this. I was referring to the same in my previous thread. As far as Digital signals, there should not be really any difference in the digital out of CD and digital out of PC, as long as the data (bits/sampling rate) remains the same.

Up to the sound chip, yes: data is data, bits are bits, and music is no different to the accounts spreadsheet. There may be differences to what that chip outputs, though, even though it is still digital. It has entered a space where the transmission of the data, timing errors, etc, start to matter. Even though I think that "jitter" is, in the real world, something that is vastly over-stated and over-worried-about.