Speakers , Which one, Yet Another

[tuff]

@sound_cycle I have the Magnepan MC1's also. Use them with a sub woofer. The magic diminishes substantially and they start sounding like dynamic speaker and the top and mid ranges are faster than the sub.( i know its not the fastest sub i have but the thing i am trying to say is that it changes the entire characteristics of the tonal balance). It would be extremely difficult for dynamic sub woofers to keep up with the panels.( I have never made comparison with the high end sub woofers so you have to excuse me) I use them for my home theater fronts (No center required) and they sound as clear as the source can be.
I would say if you intend to keep 2 feet away from the wall, You may want to think of augmenting it with Magnepan's bass panel. Some people with smaller real estate have opted to get the mini maggie's with dual bass panel (Never heard them myself) but say they sound like the bigger 3.6's.
Here is a pic from the mye stands website to feast your eyes.

 

[hifitoaster]

The first of X auditions.

PMed and FM and learnt that the Dali could be auditioned at Vector.

In all my years in Hyd have not had the courage to park at Chutney's/ Nagarjuna Circle so went off to the Road No 45 showroom instead where we were offered nice cold water. But nothing for audition. So we reluctantly drove to the other place.
They did have the Zensor 7 and they were open past their closing time because they were told we are visiting.

Is a small place, the son claimed it was the first time he was inside a microwave oven. First we listened to the Zensor 7 (Indian Ocean CD (Jhini) and the Krishna Hangal played on a Pioneer (?) CDP via a Yamaha amp) and then some Heco affair which were the only speakers they had in the ~ 50k range. I would have loved to listen to some of the other stuff I had carted along or the 6005 but it was too late.

The space was too constricted (I guess) for any image to mesmerize us. Gosh! inside of appliance (the boy gets carried it is not like we live in a palace or something) or not Bhor felt like front of the audience with some rimzim. I could have flown out of there with the worm ... but they had only the audition wale speakers. a 3 or 5 or 7 would have to be ordered.

They Dali Zensor 7 were >>>>> than the Hecos which were >>>>> than the 2605s. note: the Hecos were on another rig with a 6004 driving the sound.

to be continued ....

ciao
gr

"Beautiful people.. "people from Kerala would understand that

 

[panditji]

I heard the 1.7is last year in Hongkong but the 3 feet from the front wall was the deal breaker for me... The bass on the 1.7i was just about right and the dealer was using a simple tube amp to demo it... So with more power, it would sounded even better... The dealer also told me that these latest ones are more rugged than the earlier ones and therefore are less affected by humidity and dust.... Am sure with a bass panel the 1.7is will sing with just 2 feet distance from the front wall as per Tuff's feedback...

 

[Kannan]

@tuff wow...what a beautiful ambiance.

 

[sound_cycle]

My son was to have come over, bringing along with him a few CDs and my pre-. He decided that he would make better use of his time with friends.

The DAC was not like what I have been hearing for several years now.

Unknown (to me) amp and pre. Source was a CD-P

I was seated in a nice comfortable chair about 7 feet from the speakers. There was 10 to 12 feet behind me. I had selected a CD, the The Dali CD Vol. 3
from a small collection that was available here. The first track was Pat Methney playing a guitar "and I love her". I was no longer irritated with my son, and I did not miss my music amp DRC, Roon player etc. I was looking for the guitar instead. I don't like track 2 (Sophie Zelmani How it Feels) but hey! that did not sound half bad. I did not want to stick my fingers in my ears.

I love Ella singing "According to the Kinsey report, every average man you know, much prefers his lovely dovie to court wen the temperature is low" (Too Darn Hot). This CD had a Jan Harbeck Quartet version which sounded too darn good! And for a bit of classical there was "Joseph Haydn Rondo all’Ungarese (Allegro assai)". We also listened to Revival (on the Vande Mataram album (Rahman)

What did I like ? detail, clarity nuance, imaging and bass. What ! Bass ? from a speaker that is 85db sensitivity and with god knows what amp ? from a speaker that lists -6db 56 Hz to 22kHz in its spread sheet. There was. Nice solid meaty textured stuff at that.

So we pulled out the dealers set up and put in a familiar pre-power combo, Same result. And the dealer preferred his arrangement over this alternate. But we liked this arrangement better. The bass was thinner, but more defined and everything seemed more nice layered. Anyway this is not a Crown vs Vidar thread (and if there was one I would not post on it). Would have been good to have the Saga so that ... but that is going nowhere either.

We then listened to some Jagit Singh "Kahin door jab din dhal jaye". Twice. That was a second peg of Ardberg with just a splash of water. I bring that up to work in a old monk and ice reference to the presentation from my Z5s. We listened to some Yanni in a ht setup with Z7s and did not bother after the first twenty seconds or so. No comparison. At all.

I have been running away from Hyderabad to get speaker auditions and here I was barely a couple of km from where I stayed for a decade ! Wow that was a very pleasant surprise.

We were listening to the ATC SCM 11s.

This listening session was thanks to @drkrack who had done several things to make this listening session possible. ***Huge*** thanks doc. !

We were listening through a Sys/Vidar combination. The speakers were not more than a foot from the front wall (they are sealed box). We were kinda near field. The room was much nicer than mine of course. But that's as close to a home session as is possible.

I found them better than LS50 and R300 I heard in Chennai. I am talking of impressions. Different set up, different tracks, different room and different volume be dammned, I like the SCM 11. And I was prepared to take the R300 home.

I have to listen to the XTF8 now.

Why a fs when I am auditioning stand mounts ? I am looking for imaging - for which I was running after coaxial arrangements, which the SCM11is not - with detail and nuance and resolution. And bass. The SCM 11 was not lacking in that but I've been reading reviews that say the XTF8 delivers all of the stuff I am looking for in spades, and with a higher sensitivity.

Will pull out my CC after that Tannoy listening. Which I guess has to be in Mumbai.

But this one kinda blew my socks off. What would I like over this, a little more air and shimmer, if I can get it.

ciao
gr

 

[mpw]

soundcycle

if you are in Mumbai - then you might not be be to audition with your amps..

how will you decide ?

regards

 

[sound_cycle]

soundcycle

if you are in Mumbai - then you might not be be to audition with your amps..

how will you decide ?

regards

It is an imperfect world The bright side of things is that the XTF8 are not amp killers.

That apart, it would definitely be far better than buying unheard. I could always lug the Vidar/ Saga over if really required (12 + 1 kg fits into a suitcase).

ciao
gr

 

[mpw]

appreciate your enthu.

Possibly thats the best way to see if the Tannoys float your boat.

regards

 

[drkrack]

Unknown (to me) amp and pre. Source was a CD-P

High End SACD capable ,Marantz CDP, Parasound 5Ch Power Amp 400wpc, B&K Reference Preprocessor. i heard them with Audionote tube Pre M2 (I think) + NHT 200wpc Poweramp in my last visit, and liked them very much.

What did I like ? detail, clarity nuance, imaging and bass. What ! Bass ? from a speaker that is 85db sensitivity and with god knows what amp ? from a speaker that lists -6db 56 Hz to 22kHz in its spread sheet.

Yes , That was the first impression when I heard it 10ds ago, I first mistook for Floorstanders Playing (I was there for SCM 40/ 40A Audition 10 days ago). I had to discuss with @sound_cycle and convinced him for an audition.

We then listened to some Jagit Singh "Kahin door jab din dhal jaye".

The Midrange was too awesome to put it in words, Jagjit Singh appeared Live (When he sings 'Dooor' of 'kahin Dooor jab din '- from his voice modulation, giving an effect of vocals moving back & forth) : there was a seamless integration of Channels with good imaging, . The Dynamics in AR Rehman Revival Song was amazing. No Wonder it is one of the best audition rooms in Hyderabad.

This listening session was thanks to @drkrack who had done several things to make this listening session possible. ***Huge*** thanks doc. !
We were listening through a Sys/Vidar combination.

My pleasure,
The SYS is nothing but a glorified Volume control in a shiny box. When we changed from B&K/ Parasound to Schiit combination, the sound was more analogish. probably some digital room correction was applied by way of the B&K Preprocessor I thought, Yes it was a delight to listen with much better soundstage now. But the airy feel and 3d imaging wasn't pretty obvious now. I still preferred the Parasound over the Schiit by a very small margin, but the dealer himself preferred the Schiit Combo and was inquiring where to get them. Of course things will be way different when a Tube Pre Like Saga is added to the chain & the Small margin of my subjective preference may not stand a chance. At 100Wpc of Vidar I had to crank the volume to 70% in a large listening room. A single Vidar should be able to drive them in our rooms easily.

I found them better than LS50 and R300

Better than LS 50 yes, I need to Hear R300 though

Why a fs when I am auditioning stand mounts ?

I did like the SCM 40 (Previous Gen) new Old stock was sold at very discounted prices & was well within my budget of 2.5L. Need to think over again BS vs FS. We took a brief audition of SCM 40 'Active' together, within 5 minutes we knew, these are not the ones we are looking after. SCM 40 were not available with him this time and were sadly sold out.

What would I like over this, a little more air and shimmer, if I can get it.

The Quest is more interesting than the destination.. Or is it 85dB sensitivity to be blamed ? No easy answers.

Possibly thats the best way to see if the Tannoys float your boat.

Tannoys assume a lot of importance because , they suited the room and kind of music very well. After Room & Speakers are matched its only 'Synergy' that remains !

 

[mpw]

Soundcycle

Which interconnects were used ?

Can u re-auition with something like a Kimber hero ? Or belden 8402 ?

 

[drkrack]

Soundcycle

Which interconnects were used ?
Can u re-auition with something like a Kimber hero ? Or belden 8402 ?

Red river - Audioquest
Synergistic Reserch Spkr Cables
NHT Cinema PreProcessor (Not B&K)

 

[mpw]

Can you audition with your own interconnects and speaker cables.. The ATC SCM 11 ?

I mention this cos soundcycle mentions he needed more air and shimmer

 

[sound_cycle]

Which interconnects were used ?

Can u re-auition with something like a Kimber hero ? Or belden 8402 ?

ICs were AQ Red river, speaker cables were Van den Hul. Another audition will be at home - i.e. only if I order

High End SACD capable ,Marantz CDP, Parasound 5Ch Power Amp 400wpc, B&K Reference Preprocessor. i heard them with Audionote tube Pre M2 (I think) + NHT 200wpc Poweramp in my last visit, and liked them very much.
<snip>
We took a brief audition of SCM 40 'Active' together, within 5 minutes we knew, these are not the ones we are looking after. SCM 40 were not available with him this time and were sadly sold out.

Thanks I was lost and did not note the components ! That SCM40 active was puzzling. Reviews say it is very different from what we heard. Must be some easy explanation

Am plotting a early Sep trip to Mum to hear the xtf8. By then hopefully Gumby will be with me too.

ciao
gr

 

[sound_cycle]

Can you audition with your own interconnects and speaker cables.. The ATC SCM 11 ?

I mention this cos soundcycle mentions he needed more air and shimmer

Gumby.

The Marantz CD-P DAC is what I had on the PM6005. Bifrost added a lot to the listening experience than that DAC. Gumby should do much more magic (than bimby) over the Marantz DAC

ciao
gr

 

[hifitoaster]

I am sure about the dent part. Many folks say " It doesn't affect the sound ". It is a lie. It really affects the sound. Dented tweeter definitely will have a different freq response. I accidently dented more than once and until I got them back in shape they were sounding odd. Imo, they must be sold as paryially defective instead of saying " Fully functional ". Same applies to mids and mid woofer s with large dustcap. But with subs, it's hardly noticeable.

men. mice. murphy etc.

That Chennai thing had to get postponed.

Meanwhile found that the B&W 685/6 s2 can be auditioned in Hyd. Will try and visit that showroom on Saturday



Drivers and the Myth of Tweeter Dome Materials | AxiomAudioBlog

Dent in tweeter domes: Affect the sound a lot? - Gearslutz.com

ciao
gr

 

[sound_cycle]

Hi

A fun listening session yesterday. @drkrack and Sridhar came over. We had audio note anj, ATC scm 11 (v2 and v3) and an additional vidar (with RCA to xlr cables to have a monobloc arrangement).

It was also the first time I was listening to my gungnir multibit in stereo.


The v2 had some issues and we did not listen to them

I had the wrong kind of amp for the Anj. Could not corner load them in my room. The situation was not right for them. They threw a nice solid image and did girl and guitar very well in the suboptimal (for them ) conditions.

The SCM 11s are way nicer than the Zensor 5s i had(ve). Much more resolution and detail. Nice imaging, could not get it locked in. Unsurprisingly did not have the heft to the bass. I could not Dirac them, no cable no time. I ofc cannot say how much is speaker and how much is the Gungnir multibit, the problem with changing too many things at the same time.

Then we hooked up the SCM11 with two vidars running as monoblocs. The change to the bass was dramatic. the imaging went from viewmaster stereo to imax stereo (and we did not really get it locked in perfectly not enough time). Attack, decay, tone. The first track was Thriller. From the door opening I was hooked. So that's my upgrade path - next year or the year after.

I like the scm 11. They work well in my rig and room.

The wife and son were indifferent (they left before we ran a monobloc arrangement).

The boy was emphatic and like his current idol just said "bwoah".

The tannoy audition for the xt f8 has to happen.

Ciao
Gr

 

[arj]

I am sure about the dent part. Many folks say " It doesn't affect the sound ". It is a lie. It really affects the sound. Dented tweeter definitely will have a different freq response. I accidently dented more than once and until I got them back in shape they were sounding odd. Imo, they must be sold as paryially defective instead of saying " Fully functional ". Same applies to mids and mid woofer s with large dustcap. But with subs, it's hardly noticeable.

In many causes this is a misconception. i say many cases because in Dome Tweeters, the tweeter is not exposed but inside the black "Bump" that you see..that is the Dust dome protecting the tweeter and is acoustically transparent and hence does not change the frequency response. But in some cases it is designed to be a sound radiating surface and in those cases it matters

Not sure of your case which may be different hence generalizing. I had a dome tweeter many years backwhich my then very young kid pushed in and it had not changed the sound but made me uncomfortable and had to change it and thats when i discovered that when you see the below, what you are seeing is the dust cap and the tweeter is actually behind and inside it.

and the dust cap looks like

 

[hifitoaster]

In many causes this is a misconception. i say many cases because in Dome Tweeters, the tweeter is not exposed but inside the black "Bump" that you see..that is the Dust dome protecting the tweeter and is acoustically transparent and hence does not change the frequency response. But in some cases it is designed to be a sound radiating surface and in those cases it matters

Not sure of your case which may be different hence generalizing. I had a dome tweeter many years backwhich my then very young kid pushed in and it had not changed the sound but made me uncomfortable and had to change it and thats when i discovered that when you see the below, what you are seeing is the dust cap and the tweeter is actually behind and inside it.

and the dust cap looks like

Did not change is vague. If you measure off axis response of the tweeter it will be different for sure. For example in your picture the dent is prominent on the left side. If this tweeter is on the right side and if your speakers are not towed in, you will nötige a response difference while sitting in the center. Depends on how responsice your amp is also. I had the same problem and I had to interchange the left and right speakers that the dented part is not facing towards me. My room was very wide that the reflected sound from the tweeter won't reach me and I could ignore the distortion. At last, I opened the tweeters and then made it alright and then it sounded alright. Dome itself is the diaphragm of the silk / Ali dome tweeter it's not a dust cap.

It is designed as a dome for a reason, for proper dispersion. I really have listened to multiple dented ones in the used markets before buying. I will ignore such things again if possible because sometimes some tweeter woofers are risky to fix.

Dented is someways broken. They don't deserve the resale as a good pair.

 

[arj]

I have no idea of any measurement but the Imaging was very good and Merlin speakers excelled in that department. I assume a different dispersion would have impacted that. I think it was on the outer/top corner...i anyway got a replacement and changed it.

Have you measured any difference ? Would be interesting to know

Anyway any visible damage cosmetic or otherwise should not be sold as new.

 

[hifitoaster]

I have no idea of any measurement but the Imaging was very good and Merlin speakers excelled in that department. I assume a different dispersion would have impacted that. I think it was on the outer/top corner...i anyway got a replacement and changed it.

Have you measured any difference ? Would be interesting to know

Anyway any visible damage cosmetic or otherwise should not be sold as new.

No, but in my case it was easily audible. as the amp i connected was really airy. The difference was on the top end part. On an amp which is slightly rolled off the difference may be reduced. An off axis measurement will DEFINITELY pick this up. I am 200% confident on this. Funny thing is , my friend told me that he did not find anything wrong in the beginning. Then I played white noise through both of them. Amps same channel - speaker swapped. They sounded different. So in my case it wasnt just the off axis response but the overall tilt on the freq response was there. I doubt since there was a change in shape, the overall space between the dome and the space behind changed slightly resulting in the same. But like I told, its ignorable in some cases. I was ok using it for a month by swapping the speakers so that a combination of the dent facing outwards+the room's colouration made it more or less same.

How much it is noticeable again depends upon how symmetric you room is also imo. If its asymmetric, anyway the left and right are slightly going to sound different, so we have better things to worry about a small change in treble.