Subwoofer choice

[thevortex]

Hi,
Could you please tell me how much the EPOS ELS Subwoofer cost you? Also, please provide the address/contact if possible.

Thanks,
Bhaskie

Bhaskie,

I got this from Decibel, Chennai. Raghu, the owner, is also a member here. It cost me 30,000 Rs.

 

[Srinath_Murthy]

OK, I had a demo of the Polk DSW Pro 500 subwoofer. It was a very good movie subwoofer. However, I did not see it as being very musical. And while it does have a remote, it is pretty inflexible.

There are basically 4 levels at which volume can be set and you have to choose any one of these. While for normal usage this is fine, I dont know if that kind of inflexibility is the way to go. Oh and there are no knobs on the unit itself. So, this is what you have. The same applies for phase - there are about two settings on the remote itself and then you are done. Although they do offer a few cues such as 'Mid room', 'Midwall' etc. which would automatically set the phase and the volume of the unit.

It is not what you would call earthshaking in terms of bass. I was actually surprised, I must say. Because this sub has a lot of members singing a lot of praise.

As a satisfied owner of the DSW PRO500, I am compelled to point out a few corrections to comments above: 1. There are 40 Levels at which the volume can be set (0 to 40 discrete volume steps that are conveniently displayed by the flashing backlit logo sign). 2. FOUR phase settings are available (0-180-270-360 degrees). 3. FOUR compensatory settings for sub-placement are available (Corner-Midwall-Center-etc.) 4. These controls are MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE and hence have no inter-dependency, thereby giving the user maximum flexibility. 5. Bass performance actually heard during the demo depends on the ASSIGNING correct AVR settings like MAIN=SMALL; BASS=SWFR; cross-over frequency set correctly (no clash between the filters response characteristics of the AVR vis-a-vis the subwoofer) etc. In my experience, the "average" salesperson in a big company owned showroom may not be eager & willing to take the hassle of all this. 6. See the thread "Sub-woofer under 20K?" for other members feedback as well. Cheers!

 

[bhaskie]

As a satisfied owner of the DSW PRO500, I am compelled to point out a few corrections to comments above: 1. There are 40 Levels at which the volume can be set (0 to 40 discrete volume steps that are conveniently displayed by the flashing backlit logo sign). 2. FOUR phase settings are available (0-180-270-360 degrees). 3. FOUR compensatory settings for sub-placement are available (Corner-Midwall-Center-etc.) 4. These controls are MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE and hence have no inter-dependency, thereby giving the user maximum flexibility. 5. Bass performance actually heard during the demo depends on the ASSIGNING correct AVR settings like MAIN=SMALL; BASS=SWFR; cross-over frequency set correctly (no clash between the filters response characteristics of the AVR vis-a-vis the subwoofer) etc. In my experience, the "average" salesperson in a big company owned showroom may not be eager & willing to take the hassle of all this. 6. See the thread "Sub-woofer under 20K?" for other members feedback as well. Cheers!

Very good first-hand information indeed. Do you think getting the DSW Pro 600 instead of the 500 would make much of a difference for a small room (13x11)?

~bhaskie

 

[Srinath_Murthy]

My music room is approx 12' x 24'. The DSW500 fills this space with power & authority. I cannot turn up the volume more than half-way as the walls & floor start shaking (truly, no exagerration here) during movies LFE. For music, I keep the volume at about 35%. The DSW600 would have been an absolute overkill, besides costing me another 4K extra.

 

[pradski]

Srinath,

I have polk 600. Could you give me some advice regarding the phase settings and cross over. How best to use them.

Thanks

 

[thevortex]

As a satisfied owner of the DSW PRO500, I am compelled to point out a few corrections to comments above: 1. There are 40 Levels at which the volume can be set (0 to 40 discrete volume steps that are conveniently displayed by the flashing backlit logo sign). 2. FOUR phase settings are available (0-180-270-360 degrees). 3. FOUR compensatory settings for sub-placement are available (Corner-Midwall-Center-etc.) 4. These controls are MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE and hence have no inter-dependency, thereby giving the user maximum flexibility. 5. Bass performance actually heard during the demo depends on the ASSIGNING correct AVR settings like MAIN=SMALL; BASS=SWFR; cross-over frequency set correctly (no clash between the filters response characteristics of the AVR vis-a-vis the subwoofer) etc. In my experience, the "average" salesperson in a big company owned showroom may not be eager & willing to take the hassle of all this. 6. See the thread "Sub-woofer under 20K?" for other members feedback as well. Cheers!

Srinath - thanks for the information. I am afraid that step by step volume adjustment was not explained to me at ProFx. But I have no doubt in saying that the DSW Pro is not as configurable as the EPOS.

Also as you rightly say Phase is piegonholed into four specific points and this what is controlled for the most part by those preset room settings.

Please visit the EPOS website to see more about the kind of adjustments that the EPOS sub has.

 

[thevortex]

My music room is approx 12' x 24'. The DSW500 fills this space with power & authority. I cannot turn up the volume more than half-way as the walls & floor start shaking (truly, no exagerration here) during movies LFE. For music, I keep the volume at about 35%. The DSW600 would have been an absolute overkill, besides costing me another 4K extra.

Correct. The problem truly is that there is a lot of shudder and shake rather than distinct bass notes. It is a fantastic movie subwoofer, I just did not like it for music.

 

[Srinath_Murthy]

Opinions may differ...But, I still would urge one to re-examine the settings...I listen to jazz and western classical and am rather particular about clean bass...and believe you in me, that you can get clean, tight bass from this DSWPRO500 that shamed subs costing 50% more when I auditioned them for TWO months during Jan-Feb 2008 in Mumbai...

 

[Srinath_Murthy]

Also as you rightly say Phase is piegonholed into four specific points and this what is controlled for the most part by those preset room settings.

Hi thevortex, at the risk if being drawn into a vortex of points & counter-points, I would point out that the location of the sub compensatory room settings are DIFFERENT from PHASE settings. For example, you would typically choose 0 degree phase setting if you sub is positioned along with your main speaker, HOWEVER, you could choose to put your sub in the CORNER of that wall OR MID-WALL (say, under your LCD TV). The "preset room settings" for the latter. Again, for example, the sub would be boomy if placed in the corner vis-a-vis mid-wall...the room location settings finetune this aspect and NOT the phase...I hope that helps... BTW, I researched this in detail (including merits and demerits of Class D versus Class A) before putting my money on this sub...

 

[bhaskie]

Opinions may differ...But, I still would urge one to re-examine the settings...I listen to jazz and western classical and am rather particular about clean bass...and believe you in me, that you can get clean, tight bass from this DSWPRO500 that shamed subs costing 50% more when I auditioned them for TWO months during Jan-Feb 2008 in Mumbai...

Hey Srinath, even I listen to a lot of western classical (75% of my music usage). What speakers/amp do you use with the Pro500?

 

[thevortex]

Well, I am happy it works for you, Srinath. I had a 1 hour audition of the DSW Pro 500 at ProFx and it was not mindblowing. It was definintely economical. If you look at subwoofers at that price, it offers quite good performance. But first and foremost I saw it as a HT Sub.

See, Profx also happens to be dealers for REL and KEF subwoofers. If one takes a demo of those pieces, it would be immediately apparent what that missing musicality is.

I value music far above HT and that is where the EPOS shines.

 

[thevortex]

Hi thevortex, at the risk if being drawn into a vortex of points & counter-points, I would point out that the location of the sub compensatory room settings are DIFFERENT from PHASE settings. For example, you would typically choose 0 degree phase setting if you sub is positioned along with your main speaker, HOWEVER, you could choose to put your sub in the CORNER of that wall OR MID-WALL (say, under your LCD TV). The "preset room settings" for the latter. Again, for example, the sub would be boomy if placed in the corner vis-a-vis mid-wall...the room location settings finetune this aspect and NOT the phase...I hope that helps... BTW, I researched this in detail (including merits and demerits of Class D versus Class A) before putting my money on this sub...

That is correct. I did not mean that that the pre-settings take care only of the phase.

Aspects such as high pass filter, low pass filter, continuously variable phase, separate amplification section etc. are what adds more flexibility and power to the EPOS. I have heard both and it is my opinion that the EPOS easily outperforms the Polk.

But I understand that opinions may differ. So, I will leave it at that.

 

[Srinath_Murthy]

Bhaskie...My mains are a pair of british-made Reflex Transmission Line floorstanders. The company TDL shut down after its owner John Wright (a critically speaker engineer bloke passed away). Two photographs of these speakers are available in another thread...in this forum when some of us users had a guessing game going on during early this year...I reckon that thread is called..."Looking at these drivers, can you identify this floorstander?" or some such title. I have not visited this forum since the past 9 months when I was away from India on work. I power these speakers using my erstwhile Yamaha flagship RX-V2095. I have not had the need to "upgrade" my home theater in 10 years...Except, to add the sub to take away strain on my mains...since the LFE these days are so much more powerful...

Try listening to Bach's THE GREAT ORGAN WORKS CD with the sub...to feel the power of the Pipe Organ making your bones resonate...NOT because of distortion but because of how low the Organ can go aurically speaking...

 

[grubyhalo]

Srinath,

I have polk 600. Could you give me some advice regarding the phase settings and cross over. How best to use them.

Thanks

Hi,
See if the file I have attached helps you. I got this from an AV forum I usually lurk in and hope you find it helpful. It goes a bit technical at places and may need a soundmeter to ensure accuracy. I am not sure if you were looking at such extensive setup but thought I'll share it with you all the same.
Cheers!

 

[pradski]

Grubyhalo,

Thanks a lot. I have none of the tools except the tape. I will read and try to make use of it.

thank you.

 

[grubyhalo]

You're welcome. I'm not totally sure but you could try your local electronics shop for a sound level meter. Shouldn't be all that expensive. Or you could try using the built-in sound meter in certain Nokia phones like the 5160i, if you have access to one.

 

[thevortex]

Pradski - what is the crossover that you have set for the low frequencies? And have you matched it on the subwoofer as as well as the amplifier?

On another note, I really felt that the Diamond 9.6 did tremendously well in the bass department by itself. Adding a subwoofer to augment that pair of floorstanders - especially for music - could be inherently tough.

 

[bhaskie]

On another note, I really felt that the Diamond 9.6 did tremendously well in the bass department by itself. Adding a subwoofer to augment that pair of floorstanders - especially for music - could be inherently tough.

Since you mentioned this - I have a question - how does the diamond 9.6 sound with an avr without a sub/center/rear w.r.t movies?

I am planning to get a denon 1909 with 9.6 and use them for both music and movies until i can save enough to get the rest!

~bhaskie

 

[thevortex]

Since you mentioned this - I have a question - how does the diamond 9.6 sound with an avr without a sub/center/rear w.r.t movies?

I am planning to get a denon 1909 with 9.6 and use them for both music and movies until i can save enough to get the rest!

~bhaskie

I have specifically auditioned the Diamond floorstanders with this critierion - no center or sub or surround speakers and found them to be very competent. It is also down to personal preference.

For me surround is not too important. The 9.6 does not sound weak even in movies where hard hitting action is there. It is plenty powerful in the bass department - in fact I have not heard another floorstander which goes lower. At least not one which costs less than 60,000 Rs.

And it is not all quantity where bass is concerned. It is not loose and is well integrated with the midrange and top end. Most of all, the Diamonds are very affordably priced. I am sure you would not be disappointed with the Diamonds even if you go only for them to start with.

To get an idea of how powerful their bass is just connect a Wharfedale Sub 150. It is said to be quite a musical and versatile sub but you would be hard put to gauge its contribution when it is running with the Diamonds. I found I preferred the floorstanders for the base rather than the Sub 150s. When you finally do want to add a sub to the system, I feel you might need to spend more to get it to where you would prefer the sub's more than the floorstander's bass drivers.

 

[pradski]

vortex, I have 60Hz as crossover for sub.

I wanted add some for 9.6. It definitely does a good job in bass. I still feel it lacks in lot of higher mid and high freqs.
And personally I feel to reproduce good quality sound forget 1909 even 2309 is not enough. I think best pair of an avr for this speaker will be 2809 in denon. But you know it is my sound which I am considering.
I have seen many happy with 1909 and 9.6.