The Midrange and detail king - Diamond Mishra, Indiqaudio - Review
- Thread starter Thirumalkumaran
- Start date
keith_correa
Well-Known Member
This is true with most of us in the subcontinent - we take things that we don't like to hear way too personally, which clouds our ability to understand what a person is trying to say and makes us jump to conclusions that suit our belief system. As a result we steer discussions tangentially to meet that conclusion and in this, the REAL point is lost like in this case. 
Thirumalkumaran
Active Member
Il
I had it for long time from almost 10 years back
I'm not sure that's the right justification or approach but won't delve further; especially in the wake of few other FMs already put across what I had to say.
Hearty Congratulations on the buy. Enjoy the music. That's all that matters.
I believe dropping an email to Amit/IndiQ on the reasons for surface mounting would be more fruitful.
Also correct me if I am wrong, the Dynaudio M20 also seem to be surface mounted as per my understanding which I gained thanks to the discussions here & M20 do not seem to have any treble heaviness , infact they are quiet the opposite.
Also correct me if I am wrong, the Dynaudio M20 also seem to be surface mounted as per my understanding which I gained thanks to the discussions here & M20 do not seem to have any treble heaviness , infact they are quiet the opposite.
Vineethkumar01
Well-Known Member
Discussing with Amit would be a good idea. If anything, it would atleast improve our awareness about design choices made while designing these speakers and therefore enhance our collective wisdom. I guess that would also motivate the company to do a rethinking/address the kind of issues we have talked about, if required and if possible. Either way, we stand to benefit as customers.
As per what knowledgeable designers often point out in other forums, a good speaker should be have strategies put in place to avoid diffraction such as offset tweeter, waveguided tweeter, rounded/beveled baffle edges (low diffraction baffles) etc. More are described in the heismann acoustics link that i had shared in a previous post.
If the treble heaviness that i mentioned has caused a confusion, i didnt say that it was caused specifically by edge diffraction. I made a remark about the overall tonality of the speaker as per what i felt which could be influenced by the positioning and recording done in the youtube video. Again i understand that YouTube videos are not the right way to judge sound quality of a speaker. So i wouldnt go more on that direction. However if even users of this speaker have felt that it is a bit treble heavy, it has got more to do with the "voicing" of the tweeter via the crossover. A designer has has lots of ways to attenuate frequencies in the treble range so I wont go into its details either. Even toeing in speakers will also alter their treble balance due to effects of tweeter directivity. Due to all this, i wouldnt also comment about the techinical aspects behind relative treble balance of dyanaudio speakers (since i havent listened to them and also doesnt know the drivers & the resulting response due to their interaction with the crossover). In this day and age, if tweeters are still surface mounted, i don't know of any other reason than to cut costs/designer doesnt care about that aspect, irrespective of company that makes the speaker.
If it sounds good, then good it is, we spend years of our life to get good sound, don't we? I do not understand measurements at all, not 1 bit; I would love to, and have tried but I do not - I just can't imagine (hear) measurements when I look at them, so hard for me to understand, it is not tangible. None of my speaker purchases in my life, measurement had anything to do with my decision. Trust your ears, treat your ears.
Congratulations @Thirumalkumaran!!! Enjoy!!
Congratulations @Thirumalkumaran!!! Enjoy!!
Agreed , I think its best addressed to IndiQ and then for them to consider in their iterations if they feel any benefits to be obtained.
I did attribute the treble heaviness you pointed out to the mounting technique and hence the reason for pointing out well known companies doing the same and still achieving a good SQ. I do understand that the designers would play around with crossovers and various other things which I do not even know of to achieve a desired balance across the spectrums , hence the question on the actual impact of not following a flush mounting technique as designers for age-old brands like Dynaudio still ignore the fact then it does bring some thought on why they dont follow the approach and actual benefits of using the approach vs it being just a more labor intensive process.
Instead of multiple FMs privately interacting with him, it may be better that he engages all the FMs in this very thread. Wish someone requests him accordingly.
Why don't you consider replying to the posts made by FM @keith_correa who comes across (to me at least) as very knowledgeable in this regard?
D
Deleted member 15865
Guest
I remember that ‘face-off’ thread of yours. Some of us had felt (based on the samples you posted - appreciable work!) that the Elacs sounded much better. To me, they sounded more refined and less boxy than the Indiq speakers there. Now, with the technical discussion in this thread, I can see what might have contrubuted to that.
May be, may be not. A highly favourable Price/value ratio and exemplary Customer orientation could also have been significant contributors.
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ELAC B6.2 to me had overpowering bass & were not as refined but again the pairing might have been sub-optimal in the dealership but the room was treated. This was demoed along with Concept 20 which I found much to my liking albeit with much lower bass quantities.
Regarding IndiQ, I demoed and then got their floorstanders in lieu of a XTZ Spirit 11 .I use them in pairing with a tube amp and TT on a regular basis these days and they sound sublime. Can upload some additional videos with same chain/music playing on Focals & IndiQ Platinum Achals if the video recordings actually help identify the differences.
But I am curious to know how the technical discussion relating to diffractions actually contributes to the boxiness attributed , as based on the inputs above the cabinet/mounting design do have an impact but the designer will ultimately fine tune the crossovers etc to obtain desired signature. Also quiet a few premium brands namely Dynaudio , Triads , ELAC Debut BS mid drivers & older models (tweeters seem to be part of the same structure) , Castle Knight seem to follow a similar surface mount and have received really good user feedbacks across.
Many companies like Dynaudio employ both Electrical and Physical time alignment. Their tweeters are usually offset by a step back from the woofer.
Thanks Kannan for clarifying , let me further read up on the same.
Meanwhile recorded this and uploaded on YT incase if anyone wants to have a listen. TT -> Cayin A50T -> Achal , unfortunately kept the fan on so apologies for the background sound.
Vineethkumar01
Well-Known Member
With the limited knowledge I have, I fully agree to FM @keith_correa's opinions in this thread. I dont claim to know a correct way to go about designing speakers. There could be speaker models, whose design is driven by what eventually the room is going to do to it. But, while designing conventional boxed loudspeakers, given the freedom (budgetwise), one should try to mitigate mostly addressible problems that shows up higher up in the audible range (not talking about low frequency artifacts here) such as edge diffraction caused either by tweeter mounting or due to sharp baffle edges. We shouldn't be leaving it to the mercy of the room to take care of the peaks and dips in the frequency response that we have created either due to driver selection or in crossover design. This is because room behaviour is very hard to predict with multiple objects in it. Every reflection that is caused by an object in the room causes comb-filtering, which causes peaks and nulls depending on the path length traversed. With reflections from all objects and surfaces combined, it can cause significant variations in the frequency response. Hence every room is different. If a speaker doesnt take steps to address diffraction issues, it could be cost cutting but i dont know by how much.
Regardless of the design choices and real-world performance of Indiq Audio speakers, one thing the manufacturer can do, in my opinion, is publish some test measurements. Basic tests like on-axis and off-axis frequency response curves and impedance curves can be published especially as there are no independent reviews or lab tests of these speakers. This will build confidence with both objectivist and subjectivist buyers or also those who are a bit of both.
I do agree that flush mounting at least the tweeters, especially the domes with a large front baffle like the one used here is one of the very basic of norms in speaker designing today as it takes out of the equation certain problems with the short waves of high frequencies.
I also see that the woofer's bevel is a few mm raised with sharp edges which too can cause diffraction in the upper mids depending on the crossover point.
But again these are questions to be posted to the company and not the end user who is liking the music the speaker is producing.
Unless one listens to it personally taking into consideration the design imperfections as appears or prima facie, it would be a bit too harsh to make surmises.
@Vineethkumar01 as you live in the same city, you can possibly take an audition if interested in these speakers or even have a chat over phone with the designer to understand its design philosophies.
I have been wanting to listen to one of these speakers, but there appears to be no ownership in Chennai.
I also see that the woofer's bevel is a few mm raised with sharp edges which too can cause diffraction in the upper mids depending on the crossover point.
But again these are questions to be posted to the company and not the end user who is liking the music the speaker is producing.
Unless one listens to it personally taking into consideration the design imperfections as appears or prima facie, it would be a bit too harsh to make surmises.
@Vineethkumar01 as you live in the same city, you can possibly take an audition if interested in these speakers or even have a chat over phone with the designer to understand its design philosophies.
I have been wanting to listen to one of these speakers, but there appears to be no ownership in Chennai.
@Vineethkumar01 , Why so much hate?? What did the brand do so bad that it’s hurting you so much. I am sorry, but I feel you are just trying to pin point the negative aspect here which might not exist at all or the designer have taken care of it already.
I don’t own Indiqaudio but the only association I have with them is being their customer and I am happy coz their speakers tick all the right boxes.
We need to appreciate a brand that’s born in India and which is performing at par with some of the highly reputed International brands. If you are a designer and you mentioned earlier that you have made your own speakers. why not come out commercially and make it popular and ofcourse people will buy if it impresses them and you will start seeing threads here on this very forum.
Your views are actually questioning a lot of our wisdom. Do you think the people who have bought have no sense to judge the sound and compare ?
Regards,
Som
I don’t own Indiqaudio but the only association I have with them is being their customer and I am happy coz their speakers tick all the right boxes.
We need to appreciate a brand that’s born in India and which is performing at par with some of the highly reputed International brands. If you are a designer and you mentioned earlier that you have made your own speakers. why not come out commercially and make it popular and ofcourse people will buy if it impresses them and you will start seeing threads here on this very forum.
Your views are actually questioning a lot of our wisdom. Do you think the people who have bought have no sense to judge the sound and compare ?
Regards,
Som
Vineethkumar01
Well-Known Member
Thanks. Hopefully i will get a chance to audition the speakers once i reach back bangalore since i am currently in my hometown due to the work-from-home situation.
Over slightly less than 2 decades in this hobby , and having learnt at the expense of $$$ spent, the only truth of a speaker quality is how it sounds in your room with the amp you drive it with , assuming you have a good source. One learning from my own and other colleagues whom I interact with is speaker making is an art backed by science. while science and measurements are really needed to get to the foundation, making it a good or great speaker is an art . OF course the art of listening also plays a role hear since this is something which evolves with time.
Unlike many of the more technically qualified folks, I do not really have the knowledge to estimate component performance based in performance hence usually rely on people whose ears I would trust and wherever possible my own ears
On looking at their website, the one credential do to which I would take Indiq seriously, even more for their amps , due to the credentials of the founder Mr RK Jain.
Unlike many of the more technically qualified folks, I do not really have the knowledge to estimate component performance based in performance hence usually rely on people whose ears I would trust and wherever possible my own ears
On looking at their website, the one credential do to which I would take Indiq seriously, even more for their amps , due to the credentials of the founder Mr RK Jain.
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