The Midrange and detail king - Diamond Mishra, Indiqaudio - Review

[Decadent_Spectre]

Very valid points Arj, feedback is very important for any individual or company to grow & one should certainly be open to that. Coming to the examples you have listed these are very valid pointers and needs to be pointed out , as its very possible that the issue can be anywhere and the purpose this forum exists is to discuss & evaluate gears, personal setups and so forth & are ultimately helpful as the infinite upgrades we make is to make our system sound better.

Also regardless of the platform , I don't think anyone needs to be brutal or condescending but at the same time point out all flaws in the review or evaluation process accurately. One can always ask the questions in the right manner and expect equally well toned responses too, as this tone is what ultimately leads to chaos and then a popcorn thread. I don't think there was an issue on either of these in this thread , but don't agree the questions were relevant across, the discussion deviated from user experience/if he noticed any impact of the design on how they sound to then questioning decisions on design. Good questions, very helpful to gain knowledge but not something any of us can answer, only way to justify/report the impact of design decisions was basis of how they are performing vs other speakers auditioned and naturally would be more subjective. I am not sure if there was a better way to approach the answers to these questions in objective manner & let more experienced members speak to that.



Thanks prem, the ultimate judge is always going to be my ear
But I would also admit I am into this hobby as much due to the gears as the music and would certainly like to explore nuances on both sides.

I think this is the first time I've seen anyone admit they are gear heads rather than solely being music lovers and/or movie/TV lovers.

What is it about the gear that you like, other than producing audio/video that is.

 

[Thirumalkumaran]

The intent and purpose for me getting this is to listen to music to calm my mind down..
I'm not going to listen to the gear or the electronics..
I wanted to hear a genre.. or selected songs... Tried it with various setups and trials mentioned already, and I liked how Mishra's reproduced them. That, it did wonderfully!
The point of accurate sounding, treble bias, bass bias is not what I'm chasing at!
DOES IT SOUND GOOD TO MY EARS? that's the question I asked for before parting MY money on this!
This review is not a white paper or a tech journal publication!
At the end of the day the purpose of Mishra's is to provide with the music I like, than worrying if the guitar sounded right or the tabla left a right trail..
Peace!

 

[Vineethkumar01]

If this is of any solace at this point is this discussion, I had called up Amit from Indiq audio yesterday and had a talk with him. First of all, I appreciate his time and the effort that he took for even trying to answer my questions. These were my questions and a summarized version of the answers given by him.

1) Why does Indiq audio surface mount tweeters instead of flush mount, when it is well known that flush mounting is a better technique speaker design wise?
Answer: The main aim is to allow the customers to have a free hand in choosing the different colors, shades etc. They tried both approaches while coming up with the design early on but due to the significant complexities & costs involved in getting a custom finished baffle & cabinet along with flush mounted drivers, they decided to follow the surface mounting approach. In order to compensate for the resulting diffraction anomalies, they have done appropriate modifications in the crossover to ensure that they are not so audible in the kind of settings these speakers are eventually going to be used.

2) Are there at least basic frequency response graphs of Indiq speakers available in the public domain?
Answer: No, not available in the public domain. But they do both on and off axis (30 degree, 45 degree, and 60 degree) measurements for their speaker and validate that it stays within acceptable tolerance ranges. A reason of not posting these publicly is that often they do a custom tuning as per customer requests at the lower end of the frequency range. Another reason is that at this point they are focusing more on the subjective listening experience & the feedback received from customers about their sound quality requirements and tailoring the sound quality as per that while staying within the objective tolerance ranges.

3) What kind of driver do Indiq use?
Answer: They make mids and woofer on their own. Tweeters are sourced from Peerless by tympany.

To conclude, my personal tolerances about speaker design choices are different from Indiq, which also has an influence on my subjective preferences about how "my" speakers should sound. Everybody else have their own preferences and I respect it.
My technical questions about design choices in this particular case stand answered. I have nothing more to say in this regard.

Thanks
Vineeth

 

[Sean de Silva]

The intent and purpose for me getting this is to listen to music to calm my mind down..
I'm not going to listen to the gear or the electronics..
I wanted to hear a genre.. or selected songs... Tried it with various setups and trials mentioned already, and I liked how Mishra's reproduced them. That, it did wonderfully!
The point of accurate sounding, treble bias, bass bias is not what I'm chasing at!
DOES IT SOUND GOOD TO MY EARS? that's the question I asked for before parting MY money on this!
This review is not a white paper or a tech journal publication!
At the end of the day the purpose of Mishra's is to provide with the music I like, than worrying if the guitar sounded right or the tabla left a right trail..
Peace!

On a public forum especially hifi which can get highly polarized, there'll always be bouquets and brickbats flying around. This IMO makes forums vibrant and dynamic provided it doesn't degrade into a free-for-all. Thankfully, we have an awesome team of vigilant moderators on hfv.
@Thirumalkumaran By your own admission and sense of discernment, it is your ears that matter above all else. Congratulations on the new speakers. Sit back and enjoy your music.

 

[Deleted member 15865]

If this is of any solace at this point is this discussion, I had called up Amit from Indiq audio yesterday and had a talk with him. First of all, I appreciate his time and the effort that he took for even trying to answer my questions. These were my questions and a summarized version of the answers given by him.

1) Why does Indiq audio surface mount tweeters instead of flush mount, when it is well known that flush mounting is a better technique speaker design wise?
Answer: The main aim is to allow the customers to have a free hand in choosing the different colors, shades etc. They tried both approaches while coming up with the design early on but due to the significant complexities & costs involved in getting a custom finished baffle & cabinet along with flush mounted drivers, they decided to follow the surface mounting approach. In order to compensate for the resulting diffraction anomalies, they have done appropriate modifications in the crossover to ensure that they are not so audible in the kind of settings these speakers are eventually going to be used.

2) Are there at least basic frequency response graphs of Indiq speakers available in the public domain?
Answer: No, not available in the public domain. But they do both on and off axis (30 degree, 45 degree, and 60 degree) measurements for their speaker and validate that it stays within acceptable tolerance ranges. A reason of not posting these publicly is that often they do a custom tuning as per customer requests at the lower end of the frequency range. Another reason is that at this point they are focusing more on the subjective listening experience & the feedback received from customers about their sound quality requirements and tailoring the sound quality as per that while staying within the objective tolerance ranges.

3) What kind of driver do Indiq use?
Answer: They make mids and woofer on their own. Tweeters are sourced from Peerless by tympany.

To conclude, my personal tolerances about speaker design choices are different from Indiq, which also has an influence on my subjective preferences about how "my" speakers should sound. Everybody else have their own preferences and I respect it.
My technical questions about design choices in this particular case stand answered. I have nothing more to say in this regard.

Thanks
Vineeth

That’s good spirit and initiative, @Vineethkumar01. So customisation seems to be the other factor that influences their design decisions along with price. Fair enough. Also gives a sense that they want to continue to tweak and perfect their designs with feedback from the field. That’s a sign of openness and learning that should keep the company in good stead.

I hope, with this, you’ve dispelled any apprehensions that some FMs might have still had about your intentions in raising these issues.

But I see that you are a moderator. And you publicly claim everything you have claimed in the post. Since you are a moderator, it may also mean your thoughts expressed in the post are representative of the official policy. Which is pretty sad (and actually very unhealthy for the forum), if that really is the case.

Mods are members too. We should be able to differentiate when they are coming from which role. In this post, @arj is clearly expressing his own preferences in audio assessment. He wasn’t clarifying any forum rule or policy to mistake it as official position. It takes only a little bit of thought to discern this.

(If we can’t, then we might even misconstrue a review by mods of their own gear or suggestion to a ‘What should I buy’ query as an official endorsement of the particular product! )

 

[Kannan]

Though Emotions did run high at times, almost all contributors to this thread have been gentle and well within the scope of the discussion be it at an objective, subjective or even personal levels.
When compared to some other virulent threads where comments have gone out of hand and moderators had to stomp with an iron hand, there has been a good camaraderie shown by the members in this thread, even when opinions and view differed and at times went out of topic as well.

Both the OP @Thirumalkumaran and @Vineethkumar01 have given reasonable conclusion with their closing posts.

Audio may be a mixture of subjectivity and objectivity, but even within those objective parameters, lie a lot of subjectivity.
Often subjectivity also permeates from budget constrains and one tries to squeeze the best within that budget from the adage of 'Value for Money'

No wonder companies like KEF make speakers costing from Rs. 50000 to 50 lakhs, but even within those design/component compromises, there will be lots of subjective objectivity while designing, backed by printed specifications there-in.

it is entirely up to an individual to make a decision depending on his knowledge and understanding, if to go for subjective or objective or a combination of it to arrive at a purchase decision.

When subjective experiences are shared in a forum like this, some technical interludes, questions and ensuing arguments are inevitable.

 

[jai1611]

Mods @Naturelover @captrajesh @arj

This thread seems to be completely out of control. Pls lock and let people cool down

 

[fLUX]

The actual conclusions given by the OP & Vinoth has now gone down the drain. @arj or any other mod please close this thread or moderate it please.

 

[chander]

I saw this coming. I voted yesterday for this thread to be locked. It wasn't. It was bound to go south

I do not think the thread needs locking. The OP opened this thread to give his review and share the experience with us all. What has he done to deserve this? (Unless the OP wants this closed - then by all means).

I guess this thread opens great options for those who want to "discuss" things further with him, and interact with him and other members. Raise questions, to satisfy curiosity and let the OP and other interested members answer - civilly, subjectively and objectively. The emotions need checking OP has a legit and brilliant post.

I request members to control themselves and maintain decorum of the forum and let the OP post his findings and experiences further here. It will be great if he can keep us posted about his experience in the long run.

The actual conclusions given by the OP & Vinoth has now gone down the drain

I request you all to consider and rectify this please, rather than putting a "closed until further notice" - notice. I have posted reviews and experiences in the past and if members go nuts with each other on that I have done nothing there. I would like to continue it as a diary for all to see and notice, maybe learn from it or correct me, maybe help me fix it further or just enjoy it.

@fLUX you got some good pointers form @prem on this thread. If you know what I am getting at.

Vinoth took the time to talk to Amit and cleared a few doubts, for us all to understand better. This is a valuable thread and can become even more valuable as it grows.

 

[fLUX]

I request you all to consider and rectify this please, rather than putting a "closed until further notice" - notice. I have posted reviews and experiences in the past and if members go nuts with each other on that I have done nothing there. I would like to continue it as a diary for all to see and notice, maybe learn from it or correct me, maybe help me fix it further or just enjoy it.

@fLUX you got some good pointers form @prem on this thread. If you know what I am getting at.

Yes Chander, understood what you are getting at. More than happy if the discussion continues in a similar manner as what you pointed out, hence requested it to be either closed or moderated

 

[RajithKumar]

Now IndiQ audio became very famous with help of this Thread .

 

[Analogous]

Now IndiQ audio became very famous with help of this Thread .

Fame because of unpleasant arguments may not be what they might wish for.

I know politicians and movie producers “manufacture controversies”
For politicians and election strategists the intention is usually to distract public attention from a crisis, scandal, elections or something they are uncomfortable with.
For Movie people and publicists any pre release controversy is “free publicity” for the movie.

We all should move on… before the unpleasantness becomes too bad even for watchers/spectators of this thread.

 

[Nikhil]

** Locking this thread for a little time out and to let things cool off a little.




.

 

[Thirumalkumaran]

Thanks a lot @Nikhil for unlocking the thread.
There are couple of updates I would like to give which might benefit the users.

1. DAC... The DAC...! : I'm an old school guy who grew up with audio cassettes and CDs and I felt, digital never matches analog in reproduction!
Boy..! was I wrong..?
(There was a separate thread which confirms my ideas! | https://www.hifivision.com/threads/effect-of-dacs-on-a-system.84487/) certainly got an idea about things.
Came across the discussion of R2R dacs and its fan following..! started to do some study and research and was very curious to try one. …. and found one..! (Spoiler! Its so good, a separate review is coming soon)


What you are seeing guys are one of the smallest Discreet R2R DACs known (to me).. which supports 24bit and 384khz NOS.
Was very skeptical on the performance of this and how much it might benefit from my existing cirrus logic chip.
First I have to take the reference of this! Borrowed an ananda and JDL EL IIs from a friend and started playing around with it..
Listening to same track until I could remember all peaks and valleys, switched to this setup powered by Rpi 4, powered by moode (Which has a native support for this DAC) and boy o boy! the R2R fans just got added by 1!
Ran to my Norge amp (Do not underestimate by its cost! if you go by its simplicity, have a look at firstwatt!) (OT; a good writeup on it here: http://norge-1000-gold-stereo-amplifier.blogspot.com/), Hooked with allo interconnects and AB CL2 cables! Now I can hear the details which needed concentration to find, easily noticeable! what it makes? a h** of a difference. I was worried that the mishras might not be able to keep up with this.
The mishras are clearly able to keep up and asserts one thing which I found earlier. This speaker is transparent!

2. Cables: They do make a difference!* (*Provided you have an equipment which can show the difference!) Got a set of Belden 8477! swapped between amazon basics CL2 cables (These are pure OFC ones twisted and encased in white polymer(!) ! and yes.. there is a change in sound! and in a good way!
I believe cables work like a mini crossover, its combination of resistance and inductance, do play a role on shaping the signature of sound!
Just to confirm its not a placebo, switched Mishras to my old Pioneer BS22! No discernable difference between AB & Belden! back again to mishras, there is difference! Yup! this speaker is well resolving to make audible differences on cables!

Every experiment just assures one thing on mishras, this is a nice resolving and transparent speaker which can be flexed to suit your tase by changing the components on the chain! (I've auditioned and tried many speakers, and not a lot can do that!)

Thanks again for unlocking the thread, and request others to kindly drive inside the lane!

P.S. There is a tube pre-amp and power amp test in progress! will update later.

 

[Pratyush J]

Thanks a lot @Nikhil for unlocking the thread.
There are couple of updates I would like to give which might benefit the users.

1. DAC... The DAC...! : I'm an old school guy who grew up with audio cassettes and CDs and I felt, digital never matches analog in reproduction!
Boy..! was I wrong..?
(There was a separate thread which confirms my ideas! | https://www.hifivision.com/threads/effect-of-dacs-on-a-system.84487/) certainly got an idea about things.
Came across the discussion of R2R dacs and its fan following..! started to do some study and research and was very curious to try one. …. and found one..! (Spoiler! Its so good, a separate review is coming soon)

View attachment 61599
What you are seeing guys are one of the smallest Discreet R2R DACs known (to me).. which supports 24bit and 384khz NOS.
Was very skeptical on the performance of this and how much it might benefit from my existing cirrus logic chip.
First I have to take the reference of this! Borrowed an ananda and JDL EL IIs from a friend and started playing around with it..
Listening to same track until I could remember all peaks and valleys, switched to this setup powered by Rpi 4, powered by moode (Which has a native support for this DAC) and boy o boy! the R2R fans just got added by 1!
Ran to my Norge amp (Do not underestimate by its cost! if you go by its simplicity, have a look at firstwatt!) (OT; a good writeup on it here: http://norge-1000-gold-stereo-amplifier.blogspot.com/), Hooked with allo interconnects and AB CL2 cables! Now I can hear the details which needed concentration to find, easily noticeable! what it makes? a h** of a difference. I was worried that the mishras might not be able to keep up with this.
The mishras are clearly able to keep up and asserts one thing which I found earlier. This speaker is transparent!

2. Cables: They do make a difference!* (*Provided you have an equipment which can show the difference!) Got a set of Belden 8477! swapped between amazon basics CL2 cables (These are pure OFC ones twisted and encased in white polymer(!) ! and yes.. there is a change in sound! and in a good way!
I believe cables work like a mini crossover, its combination of resistance and inductance, do play a role on shaping the signature of sound!
Just to confirm its not a placebo, switched Mishras to my old Pioneer BS22! No discernable difference between AB & Belden! back again to mishras, there is difference! Yup! this speaker is well resolving to make audible differences on cables!

Every experiment just assures one thing on mishras, this is a nice resolving and transparent speaker which can be flexed to suit your tase by changing the components on the chain! (I've auditioned and tried many speakers, and not a lot can do that!)

Thanks again for unlocking the thread, and request others to kindly drive inside the lane!

P.S. There is a tube pre-amp and power amp test in progress! will update later.

Good to see the thread back online. @Thirumalkumaran pls keep us updated with your ongoing experiments. You are absolutely right, like Diamond Mishra's, Achals are resolving and transparent too

 

[Analogous]

Good to see the thread back online. @Thirumalkumaran pls keep us updated with your ongoing experiments. You are absolutely right, like Diamond Mishra's, Achals are resolving and transparent too

+1 to that. Great to hear of the impressions as the “break in” ( terrible term) happens with use.
There is a separate thread for the new Diamond Achals here:
Thread 'My early impressions of the Diamond Achal speakers by Indiq Audio'
https://www.hifivision.com/threads/...-diamond-achal-speakers-by-indiq-audio.85658/

 

[premoddev]

Thanks a lot @Nikhil for unlocking the thread.
There are couple of updates I would like to give which might benefit the users.

1. DAC... The DAC...! : I'm an old school guy who grew up with audio cassettes and CDs and I felt, digital never matches analog in reproduction!
Boy..! was I wrong..?
(There was a separate thread which confirms my ideas! | https://www.hifivision.com/threads/effect-of-dacs-on-a-system.84487/) certainly got an idea about things.
Came across the discussion of R2R dacs and its fan following..! started to do some study and research and was very curious to try one. …. and found one..! (Spoiler! Its so good, a separate review is coming soon)

View attachment 61599
What you are seeing guys are one of the smallest Discreet R2R DACs known (to me).. which supports 24bit and 384khz NOS.
Was very skeptical on the performance of this and how much it might benefit from my existing cirrus logic chip.
First I have to take the reference of this! Borrowed an ananda and JDL EL IIs from a friend and started playing around with it..
Listening to same track until I could remember all peaks and valleys, switched to this setup powered by Rpi 4, powered by moode (Which has a native support for this DAC) and boy o boy! the R2R fans just got added by 1!
Ran to my Norge amp (Do not underestimate by its cost! if you go by its simplicity, have a look at firstwatt!) (OT; a good writeup on it here: http://norge-1000-gold-stereo-amplifier.blogspot.com/), Hooked with allo interconnects and AB CL2 cables! Now I can hear the details which needed concentration to find, easily noticeable! what it makes? a h** of a difference. I was worried that the mishras might not be able to keep up with this.
The mishras are clearly able to keep up and asserts one thing which I found earlier. This speaker is transparent!

I guess the DAC you are mentioned here is the one by the Audiophile DIYer, how much it cost you when it landed here? was there any import duty?

Thanks..

 

[vizeta]

I guess the DAC you are mentioned here is the one by the Audiophile DIYer, how much it cost you when it landed here? was there any import duty?

Thanks..

I also got motivated to try this DAC and placed an order for the same. He (Audiophile DIYer) is working on the next batch and DAC should be ready to be shipped by 17th Sep.

 

[premoddev]

I also got motivated to try this DAC and placed an order for the same. He (Audiophile DIYer) is working on the next batch and DAC should be ready to be shipped by 17th Sep.

I too got the pricing from him, any idea how much will be the duty/tax on import?

 

[vizeta]

I too got the pricing from him, any idea how much will be the duty/tax on import?

I think he is going to invoice it for $35 (2.5K) and going to add it along with the shipment. So in the worst-case scenario, if duty is charged at 50-60% of the invoice amount we might end up paying Rs 1200-1500 for duty.