I am a little curious about the discussions that are going on here. One thing that comes to my mind is that, in the heat of discussions, some fundamental issues have been sidelined. Terms and nomenclature have been given more importance than they deserve.
We are talking about Oppo Upscaling, HTPC using madVR, MKV files etc.
Let me see if I understand a few things right.
1. If you take a DVD, the highest resolution it can support is 720 x 480 pixels per frame for NTSC (or 720 x 576 pixels per frame for PAL), which is, at best, only 37.5% of the resolution of 720HD. At typical bit rates, you will get a file size of about 8.5GB for a 4 hour video.
2. Similarly, a Blu-ray supports a max of 19201080 pixels at a max of 59.94fps. For commercial reasons the video is stored and distributed in medium that has a capacity of 25GB.
When you come to computer file formats, what you do is to extract the essential information and compress that to the smallest size possible. Whether you use MKV or any other file, let us remember it is akin to an MP3. You are removing some information. What that means is that whether you use madVR or any other renderer, you will NEVER get the original image back. Why? Simply because it is not there any more.
So unless you get an uncompressed ISO file, whatever you do, you are playing around with data loss. What renderers and upscalers do is to create missing data and fill 'holes' in the image. This is very similar to what audio DACs do. They 'add' data to smoothen a digital curve to as close a natural analog curve as they can. But remember, all these are playing around with lost data, and trying to recreate that on the fly.
Now let us come to upscaling.
Upscaling can be done at two stages. One - at the source, and one just before playback. But again whatever is done, the max resolution you can get is 1920x1080 at 60fps. I think that is what Sam was trying to say. If a sub 100$ Blu-ray player can bypass the audio and video and send raw data faithfully to an AVR, that combination can do as good a job or even better than any source level upscaler such as an Oppo.
Beyond all this, given the same amount of data and upscaling, the only way to enhance your viewing experience is to have a better display mechanism - your TV or Projector. Given everything else being the same before data reaches the display, it is only the display that could make your viewing experience better.
I am not even talking about the difference between the data size and pixel density at the studio, and what arrives at home. There is a huge difference.
Cheers
Venkat, all valid points, but also the very reason one needs video upscaling (not necessarily HTPC).
Pretty much everyone has DVDs, but how many of us have CRT TVs? At the very least most of us have 1080p i.e. full HD TVs. That's a lot of missing data and holes that need to be filled in, otherwise the content looks pretty crappy to even begin with.
Take the case of 1080p content, which limits us to only Blu-ray discs. Not in India, but very certainly in the United States and most parts of the world, it does not make sense to buy a 1080p TV anymore. You can get a 4K TV for the same price, or just a little bit more. Again, playing 1080p content on a 4K TV raises the question of missing data and holes that need to be filled in.
Keeping that point aside, 1080p content (not ripped or compressed, but an actual Blu-ray disc) looks much better on a 4K TV than on a 1080p TV. This is without using any software like madVR, or even a Blu-ray player that upscales video, but because the TV itself upscales video to fill in the holes. Obviously, this is way better on high-end/expensive 4K TVs than on entry level 4K TVs.
But the point I want to make is that, 1080p content looks better on a 4K TV than on a 1080p TV. Doesn't really matter who is doing the upscaling, the TV, the Blu-ray player, or even madVR. Needless to say, the advantage always lies with a Blu-ray disc than with compressed MKV files. Fact of the matter is, with the distance between content and screen resolutions/size there are always going to be holes that need to be filled in. There is no way I can watch my DVD collection on a 4K TV. However, they do become watchable (and enjoyable) when ripped and upscaled with madVR on my PC.
HTPC does require some tweaking, especially if you are working with plugins and all, but the reward is worth, however, its certainly, not something that takes hours of configuration and setting up, you make it sound like a mental and physical torture .....
One can get the PC assembled by any PC Hardware shop for as low as 300 bucks, including windows and all, Rest all you need is to do is to install KODI and configure it to point it to your movie library and that's it. (and for that truck loads of tuts are available and there is a huge community supporting behind KODI for all configurations assistance)
If you are venturing into plugins and madvr kinda of stuff, then YES definitely you would need time and patience to get KODI configured per your needs. But then an avg used (which is what we are bringing out here) would not bother to go into all plugins and madvr stuff. Just getting a nice library and be able to play all formats is all one would need and KODI excels in that, with a decent hardware obviously. Lastly, I HAVE used MadVR extensively with MPC_HC and very frankly I did not find the PQ to be of something we can call night and day difference.
Coming to oppo,.... my argument is not the comparison of oppo to media player or HTPC. Of course popping a BD disk to watch a movie will always be easier in comparison to setting up HTPC or even a media player, specially with oldies ..... My argument was the price oppo bd player comes for and that for me is not justified .... oppo might be having better PQ than maybe the low-end BD players from sony or LG, but I am sure with better players from Panasonic or Pioneer will produce the same AV quality with atleast 1/2 the price of oppo if not 1/3rd.
Hey Sam,
Depends on what you are configuring I guess, but it really does take hours (when done my way). Let's just take the case of PotPlayer, forgetting keyboard shortcuts and general playback settings, one still has to spend time on the video decoder, the audio decoder, filters and filter priorities, subtitles, etc. all of with multiple sub menu options. And then you get to the actual video renderer and audio renderer. If you choose madVR in the video renderer, there are tons of options in there, and just switching between the scaling algorithms and deciding what looks best will take you at least a couple of days. Not to mention you have to read through a ton of tutorials and forum threads to even understand what madVR exactly does, and know what each setting accomplishes or changes.
Oh by the way, you don't really need to use the default video decoders that come with PotPlayer. You can decide and go for the best like LAV Filters, which again have tons of tweaking options.
PS: Not to put anybody off, but this can be a one-time setting as you can always export the settings in PotPlayer and madVR and import them in another PC or after a fresh install.
Nvidia DSR (for 4K video playback) again doesn't work out of the box, but needs to be set up.
Obviously, one can simply discard all of this, and go with any media player with default settings, or Kodi. Unfortunately though the quality will be average at best. MadVR does something exceptional, even if it's only filling in holes.
Coming to the Oppo, yes it is expensive, but it is also doing something special to fill in the holes and that comes at a price. Obviously not a requirement if you don't need any holes filled and are watching 1080p content on a 1080p TV, and don't plan to watch a DVD on a 1080p TV or a 4K TV.
