To NAS or not to NAS?

[sam9s]

It is very clear to me that NAS needs a bit deeper technical skill set than just using a computer or a bluray player. And that is / has been exactly my point.
I request you to suggest the OP based on your expertise whether he will get benefit with using a NAS in his case.

If the requirement is only to aggregate the data, would an external HD with the needed capacity (DAS) will suffice or is there any added benefits by putting the Storage on a Network (NAS)? As I have been suggesting since the beginning that in my use case (possible for a regular average user use case) a DAS might suffice but I really appreciate if you could write few lines about this as it can help me as well as others who might not have full understanding of the topic.

My recommendation to a layman for a NAS would be...

1. The user has at least more than 5TB of data
2. The user has his/her data scattered all across different HDD (internal/external), or devices, pendrives, SD cards ...etc etc
3. User would like to centralise all of his data in one location for easy access, better manageability and getting it organised.
4. a 24x7 running DLNA Media Server.
5. a 24x7 running file server, with protocols like webdav and sftp
6. a 24x7 print server (if needed)

To an advance user ....

1. All of the above ... PLUS ...
2. Better data security and redundancy
3. Global access of his/her data (from Internet and mobile)
4. Integration with directory services (like in small business, eg internet parlor, small office ...etc)
5. VPN server/client
6. Surveillance
7. Own cloud services
8. Own personal mail server
9. Tools for small business, like need for a database, phpBB Bulletin boards or opening an online merchant shop ....etc etc

The OP qualifies for the first 4 points at least ....

Also good to know that these NAS device do not fail. Given the world we live in of planned obsolescence, it is good that these devices are built to last. Fortunately I did not experience dying of electronics personally but heard from friends of the stories of HDs TVs and all sort of electronics failing I got a bit skeptical about NAS failure as it is akin to put all valuables in one safety box and loosing the key.

There is difference between TV consumer electronics and NAS dude .... Computer chips can tent to run for years, given a decent condusive environment. It is very very rare that your NAS unit will fail, just like that. HDD can and often does, hence the need for RAID and proper backup as well (including cloud) for your most imp data like office files and family snaps

 

[terrible]

But, there are a number of inexpensive player that do read well and transfer the data for further processing with no loss in between. Their upscaling may not be good or upto the mark, but they don's lose any data between the disc and the reading.

Cheers

Fantastic. Can you suggest a player such?

 

[venkatcr]

Fantastic. Can you suggest a player such?

Look at players from Sony, Pioneer, and Panasonic. At the second level you can look at LG and Samsung.

Sony BDP-S1200
Sony BDP-S5200
Sony BDP-S3200

Panasonic DMP-BDT160
Panasonic DMP-BDT260
Panasonic DMP-BDT370
Panasonic DMP-BD91

Samsung BD-H5100
Samsung BD-F6500

LG BP540
LG BP340

Yamaha BD-S677BL

Philips BDP2100/F7B

Pioneer BDP-180

 

[Gadgety]

2. Similarly, a Blu-ray supports a max of 19201080 pixels at a max of 59.94fps. For commercial reasons the video is stored and distributed in medium that has a capacity of 25GB.

When you come to computer file formats, what you do is to extract the essential information and compress that to the smallest size possible. Whether you use MKV or any other file, let us remember it is akin to an MP3. You are removing some information. What that means is that whether you use madVR or any other renderer, you will NEVER get the original image back. Why? Simply because it is not there any more.

Hi,

This is most interesting. I thought MKV losslessly compresses the files, whereas your audio MP3 analogy is a lossy codec. Even if I'm not ripping the exact disc structure, menus etc, I thought the actual track being ripped, i e the main movie/soundtrack into the MKV container is a 1:1 lossless rip, even if it compresses the file. This would be akin to FLAC audio rips, which, when they are unpacked are identical bit for bit to the file they originally compressed.

I would be most grateful if you could provide a reference explaining how MKV rips are lossy rips so I could find out more? Always more to learn.

 

[sam9s]

MKV is just a container, it can have lossy rip and lossless as well. MakeMKV can copy the original video and audio stream including HD Audio to the mkv container. Refer my backup guide for the same.

http://www.hifivision.com/articles-guides/19158-best-guide-backup-your-bluray-mkv-mp4.html

Unfortunately the images are all gone (blame imageshack, crap image hosting site), but you still would get the idea...

 

[kmathan88]

I have a 4BAY 413j

If the requirement of NAS is just for IP cameras and streaming movies from say Nvidia shield (Blu ray rip), do we need high end models or get away with J / value series. Assuming Nvidia shield will act as plex server and NAS merily act as a storage unit (no transcoding in NAS).
No simultaneous steaming too. Also please comment on the network load when we stream movies, do you see any issues with connected wifi devices?

If I don't need more power for my requirement, I can use the funds to get a value 4 bay model instead of high end 2 bay model.
Thanks for all your information.

 

[sam9s]

If the requirement of NAS is just for IP cameras and streaming movies from say Nvidia shield (Blu ray rip), do we need high end models or get away with J / value series. Assuming Nvidia shield will act as plex server and NAS merily act as a storage unit (no transcoding in NAS).
No simultaneous steaming too. Also please comment on the network load when we stream movies, do you see any issues with connected wifi devices?

If I don't need more power for my requirement, I can use the funds to get a value 4 bay model instead of high end 2 bay model.
Thanks for all your information.

First of all I now have a 916+, but the argument still hold and answer to your question is yes, if you are going to use NAS just for storage and not act as media transcoder, then j series will do. But having simultaneous streams from the NAS also takes processing power, so in that regard, J might not be recommended. But if you going to use it for pure storage without any multiple streams and all. J will do just fine.

 

[kmathan88]

First of all I now have a 916+, but the argument still hold and answer to your question is yes, if you are going to use NAS just for storage and not act as media transcoder, then j series will do. But having simultaneous streams from the NAS also takes processing power, so in that regard, J might not be recommended. But if you going to use it for pure storage without any multiple streams and all. J will do just fine.

Thanks for the input.

 

[kmathan88]

916+

Just curious, do you run plex server on Synology 916+ or Nvidia shield ? How is it compared ?

 

[sam9s]

I run on both and both perform equality, I find no difference. Shield server sometimes very rarely stops, wherein I have to restart it. Synology that never happens, but otherwise both perform technically same.

 

[kmathan88]

I run on both and both perform equality, I find no difference. Shield server sometimes very rarely stops, wherein I have to restart it. Synology that never happens, but otherwise both perform technically same.

Thanks sam.

Now I bumped the budget for NAS and really confused with what to buy.

1) Synology 218J + Nvidia shield
2) Synology 218+ + Nvidia shield
3) Synology 718+
4) Synology 418J + Nvidia shield
5) Synology 418play
6) Synology 918+

My requirements,
1) Plex server for 1080p / Atmos movies. For now I can use Fire tv stick, Chromecast or PC for streaming. Mostly only one at a time. Not sure how good the quality between fire tv stick and shield.
2) Google Drive and Photos sync
3) Sync multiple mobile weekly for data backup
4) Music streaming to Chromecast / Echo dot
5) External access to files
6) IP camera, max 2 in future (1080p or 720p)
7) Torrent / Youtube download
8) I will start with 4TB drive. As per my requirement I need less than 2TB each year. So, I figured 4bay makes more sense. If I chose 2bay, may be I can plan for 6TB.

Since media streaming is my main requirement I wanted Shield with NAS. I was going through Synology forum and it looks like j series struggles with too much photos in Moments.

Please suggest.

 

[sam9s]

I would go with Synology 418J + Nvidia shield. J series does not struggle with anything except that plex transcoding thing. I had a 413j before 916+ and it performed perfectly, even though the hardware of 413 was lower to 418j

 

[kmathan88]

I would go with Synology 418J + Nvidia shield. J series does not struggle with anything except that plex transcoding thing. I had a 413j before 916+ and it performed perfectly, even though the hardware of 413 was lower to 418j

Thanks a lot. I will go with this route. 418j + 1x4tb + Nvidia shield 16GB (I can connect a 128gb pen drive for internal storage)
I will order soon.

 

[kmathan88]

I would go with Synology 418J + Nvidia shield. J series does not struggle with anything except that plex transcoding thing. I had a 413j before 916+ and it performed perfectly, even though the hardware of 413 was lower to 418j

Sorry, one last question for now. Can we access Synology Virtual machine via Quick connect or anyother method (from outside network)

 

[sam9s]

what do u mean Synology virtual machine?

 

[kmathan88]

what do u mean Synology virtual machine?

I meant this. If I have a VM running some Windows version, can I access it from outside world ?

 

[sam9s]

I dont think ds418j has the juice/hardware for VMs. you wont even be able to install virtual manager on it. The min model is DS218+ for a VM to run, that too with upgraded RAM. The base 2GB will be peanuts to run any kind of VM. If you are thinking of running VMs then 918+ or 718+ with min 8 and 6GB RAM is recommended. RAM also you have to install manually and it is quite a task installing RAM on synologies. Highly recommended is 918+ with 16gb (2x8GB) seems like Synology have provided 2 slots in this model, which is very good as against to one slot in 916+, where I could only manage to install one 8GB module.

Running VMs is an altogether different ball game. Takes a beefy machine to run VMs as all resources are shared. You can check my thread "sam9s VMWare project! powered by ESXi Hypervisor" in the sig to learn more on VMs and preferred way to run virtual environment.

...and OH to answer your question, yes once the VM is setup, you can access it from anywhere. But not sure via QuickConnect, but definitely via conventional port fw, DDNS way.

 

[kmathan88]

I dont think ds418j has the juice/hardware for VMs. you wont even be able to install virtual manager on it. The min model is DS218+ for a VM to run, that too with upgraded RAM. The base 2GB will be peanuts to run any kind of VM. If you are thinking of running VMs then 918+ or 718+ with min 8 and 6GB RAM is recommended. RAM also you have to install manually and it is quite a task installing RAM on synologies. Highly recommended is 918+ with 16gb (2x8GB) seems like Synology have provided 2 slots in this model, which is very good as against to one slot in 916+, where I could only manage to install one 8GB module.

Running VMs is an altogether different ball game. Takes a beefy machine to run VMs as all resources are shared. You can check my thread "sam9s VMWare project! powered by ESXi Hypervisor" in the sig to learn more on VMs and preferred way to run virtual environment.

...and OH to answer your question, yes once the VM is setup, you can access it from anywhere. But not sure via QuickConnect, but definitely via conventional port fw, DDNS way.

I was looking at 218+ and 718+ with 6GB(2+4) of RAM, if I want to use VM. 918+ might be a overkill for me. 218+ is almost same as 418play in terms of spec. So, I can either get 218+ or 718+. Other thing I am planning is to avoid any kind of RAID. Instead I will plan for a traditional backup solution via external drives, this way I get to use both the bay for storage.

Accessing our own VM from outside home seems to be an exciting option. Still reading about it.

 

[sam9s]

I would not run VMs on NAS personally. If VMs are my main criteria, then a separate dedicated VM server is what I would suggest and invest. With the price you will invest on 718+ you can assemble a much better dedicated ESXi server. 218+ with 6GB is not worth VMs, Max VM you might run on this machine is 2 and that also would gravely slow down the machine. Trust me not worth. 718+ with 16GB ram is min for good VMs and performance, but for that price, as I said you can have a much better dedicated VM server. Synology price is NOT justified for VMs, yes I can justify it for other Home NAS activities, especially for multimedia, but not for VMs.

Also backup on external HDD is not recommended, external HDD are also very much prone to fail over time. Raid IS recommended atleast one disk protection, like what SHR does, hence 4 bay NAS recommended. For more security and backup, look for Amazon S3 or Amazon AWS backup, much more reliable than any external HDD. And Synology natively supports auto backup to these services. So my recommendation SHR plus AWS, instead of No raid and external backup. Rest is your take.

 

[kmathan88]

I would not run VMs on NAS personally. If VMs are my main criteria, then a separate dedicated VM server is what I would suggest and invest. With the price you will invest on 718+ you can assemble a much better dedicated ESXi server. 218+ with 6GB is not worth VMs, Max VM you might run on this machine is 2 and that also would gravely slow down the machine. Trust me not worth. 718+ with 16GB ram is min for good VMs and performance, but for that price, as I said you can have a much better dedicated VM server. Synology price is NOT justified for VMs, yes I can justify it for other Home NAS activities, especially for multimedia, but not for VMs.

Also backup on external HDD is not recommended, external HDD are also very much prone to fail over time. Raid IS recommended atleast one disk protection, like what SHR does, hence 4 bay NAS recommended. For more security and backup, look for Amazon S3 or Amazon AWS backup, much more reliable than any external HDD. And Synology natively supports auto backup to these services. So my recommendation SHR plus AWS, instead of No raid and external backup. Rest is your take.

Priorities changed. So, I ended up ordering DS218+, WD 4TB NAS drive and SanDisk SSD PLUS 120GB for my PC. I will use it for couple of days before deciding on the additional 4GB RAM. I will be using it mostly for storing files now.

Thanks again sam for all your suggestions.