Turntable The next level

[mahiruha]

mahiruha,

hold the order immediately! you need to check which step up transformers viren uses. i forget the name right now. by a lucky chance the ones he imported for use happen to be the perfect match for the denon dl 103 i plan to use for the garrard when i do get around to setting it up. i had checked the cart's output etc there's a simple equation that shows you if the step up is a good match or not. its not a simple issue of just stepping up the voltage so dont even waste time on the cambridge phono. i think it was in the analogdept.com site... havent yet transferred my links to my mac so will check it out in office tomorrow for you. the area for you to solve is not so much the gain matching between phono and integrated so much as the matching between phono step up transformer winding specs and cart specs.

viren can also do a resistor install that you can change to experiment with cart loading. he's done it for me though i haven't used it yet.

get the wiring done buddy (you were mentioning some local guy who'd do it for you if i remember so your phono could accept ecc83s?) you'll wonder what you were settling for when you roll in the telefunkens

regards

Hi Steven,
I see your point. It seems quite a complex issue which is beyond my comprehension at this point until I do some serious reading. Actually you have provided the technical details in this very thread regarding step up transformer and cartridge matching.I just dug it up.
SUT
I am in touch with Viren and Sridhar to find a optimum solution. I am also thinking about a radical solution. Just to put my Shure M97x cart in the VPI and done with it till the Dynavector finds suitable match to play with.Steven this ecc83 is really tempting. will definitely do something about it.
Thanks.

 

[stevieboy]

hi mahiruha,

yes that's the one i was referring to. well you can set up the dynavector cos cartridges settle down and then you need to adjust them after a while, most cases raising the arm a bit to compensate for a more settled suspension. and of course once you raise the arm you need to adjust everything else... grin so might as well get started on the process

regards

 

[mahiruha]

Hi Guys,
finally managed to take some pictures of the new VPI Classic TT.
Today when I played the TT surprisingly it performed much better. I guess it is the break in issue. The squeaking noise is gone and music was very good at least I could hear it without any AC or fan turned on for an hour when the outside temperature is hovering around 36 degree centigrade. Only new thing I did today is changed the audioart cable with Viren's RCA cables and I got the sound I wanted. I guess this audio art IC's need a lot of time to burn in or I am so used the sound signature produced by Viren's IC's it will take a bit of time to get used to other IC's. I played some very old records and they sounded much better compared to the Project overall it presents music in a much better fashion as compared to project. So far so good. Planning to apply some tweaks to the phono pre amp to decrease the load on the cartridge lets see how it goes.

@Shaizada: Thanks for your advise and pointing me towards this wonderful machine. I will definitely get in touch with Mike for suggestion regarding good SS phono pre amp from england.
@Anm: Definitely ask questions regarding fixing of Shure cartridge. I must confess I still don't know whether my attemt is ok or not. Well that's the benefit of not posessing an audiophile hearning.
@Steven: Yes you are right. This vpi guys have provided so many cartridge fitting tools to play with I am really tempted to try and fix Shure to it. It will be good fun. BTW the sumiko blu point 2 cart you use where did you get it from? I am quite tempted to try that one after reading the specs. It is moving magnet 2.5mv right?

Sorry for the poor pics. My phone is my only camera.

Last but not the least it was really nice to finally meet Cranky in person who helped me to set up the table.
Thanks.

 

[anm]

:clapping:

 

[Sidharth Trehan]

Wo hoh ho!
Congrats Mahi, thats one classy piece you have acquired! Love the warm touch that wood brings and the VPI Tonearm is my fav.

Going forward, do keep posting in your experience.

wishes

 

[Abhishek]

Congrats mahiruha on your new purchase!! the turntable looks great!

regards,
Abhishek

 

[stevieboy]

mahiruha,

got it from sushil its a HOMC high output moving coil that's connected to the mm input on the phonostage. i dont know whether you ought to get it cos you'd be playing in roughly the same rather lower field as the dynavector 20x cart. you'd be moving horizontally or rather downwards to a different sound not upwards if you want to up the stakes do a retip or explore another brand depending on the sound signature you like. you're already in the $750 range now up to koetsu and their ilk.

regards

edit: lovely table! love the wood surround base. bet you can't stop listening!

 

[grubyhalo]

That looks fantastic! Congrats!

 

[malvai]

congrats Mahi! Enjoy yourself! You'll never look at CD's the same way again... Evah!

 

[anilva]

Congrats Mahi...Nice piece of engineering.

Cheers.

 

[shaizada]

Now that my friends.....is one helluva table!
Congrats man. It only gets better from here on out and now just enjoy.

You are going to get a lot of rewards by simple tweaking and adjusting the sound to your taste. That on-the-fly VTA adjustment is a dream to use and VERY useful for the different record thickness. You can change the sound significantly with that.

By the way, I have a solid stage phono preamp I am going to be selling. Look in the For Sale section soon.

Plus my mother is going to Delhi on Thursday and I just realized that I can send it with her if needed. That way it SAFELY gets to India! I should have thought of this before.

 

[mahiruha]

Hi Shaizada,
I just spoke to Mike. Thanks for the pointer. He seems to be a nice and knowledgable guy. He immediately understood my problem. He told me to reduce the load of my tube phonostage from 47K ohm to 1 Kohm and Vpi will sing in its full glory. I also asked him about matching solid state phono stages. His suugestion is Soundsmith , Dynavector T75 , Mcintosh integrated and creek. Any experience with those?
Thanks again for letting me know about Mike.
Thanks.

 

[shaizada]

Hi Shaizada,
I just spoke to Mike. Thanks for the pointer. He seems to be a nice and knowledgable guy. He immediately understood my problem. He told me to reduce the load of my tube phonostage from 47K ohm to 1 Kohm and Vpi will sing in its full glory. I also asked him about matching solid state phono stages. His suugestion is Soundsmith , Dynavector T75 , Mcintosh integrated and creek. Any experience with those?
Thanks again for letting me know about Mike.
Thanks.

The guy is magic with regards to knowledge. He is one of the finest out here and helps his customers out no matter where they are in the world. Imagine, all that knowledge is a phone call away.

The Dynavector 20X has a recommended load of 1k Ohm. That is DEFINITELY what you should be loading at. Sound will be much much better without a doubt as the cart is designed for that loading.

Those are all good suggestions, but they all bring in this certain texture in the music which I don't like having at the phono stage level. See, a good phono should let everything form the cartridge through unhindered. A good phono should reproduce the RIAA cure as ACCURATELY as possible and thats it. Let the cables, preamp, amp, speakers etc color the sound. The phono should be perfectly neutral and do its job...then get out of the way.

Thats the kind of phono stage you want. I like solid stage phono's over tube, because again, thats NOT where I want to color the sound. Just my philosophy and it's worked wonders for me.

I've submitted a For Sale thread which should be up soon pending Moderator approval. I'm selling a Musical Surroundings Phonomena phono amp. For the price ($350....new cost was $600), that is a great deal and I am planning to send it with my mother to Delhi (she leaves on Thursday), provided someone wants it. No hassle of International shipment delays and costs etc.

If you want to spend even more, just get the Ray Samuels Audio Nighthawk, one of the best phonostages I have experienced for the money. That costs about $750 or $800 plus international shipping (intro price is $650).

I NORMALLY like to be humble at these things, but I really can pick good components and HAVE experienced/owned quite a few high end components. You can't go wrong with the Nighthawk or even the Phonomena at the selling price.

Read this about the Musical Surroundings Phonomena I am selling:
StereoTimes -- Musical Surroundings MM/MC Phonomena Phono Preamplifier

 

[shaizada]

Exactly! No need to have perfectly good sounding equipment just lying around doing nothing. These things NEED to be bringing happiness to other music lovers or their destiny will remain unfulfilled!

I used to enjoy having 2 or 3 audio systems setup, but that is an absolute waste as when I get time, I only listen to the main system and the others get ignored. I've parted with many things over the years, just the final few things now.

For now the Rega P2 / Super Elyss cartridge and the Musical Surroundings Phonomena are going. It would be perfect for someone in Delhi as they get good quality equipment and save on shipping charges etc.

 

[malvai]

Exactly! No need to have perfectly good sounding equipment just lying around doing nothing. These things NEED to be bringing happiness to other music lovers or their destiny will remain unfulfilled!

I used to enjoy having 2 or 3 audio systems setup, but that is an absolute waste as when I get time, I only listen to the main system and the others get ignored. I've parted with many things over the years, just the final few things now.

For now the Rega P2 / Super Elyss cartridge and the Musical Surroundings Phonomena are going. It would be perfect for someone in Delhi as they get good quality equipment and save on shipping charges etc.

And boy you would be making some dilliwalla really happy!
As delhi suffers from an acute problem of great pre-owned stuff in great condition, by genuine sellers!

 

[odyssey]

Now that my friends.....is one helluva table!
Congrats man. It only gets better from here on out and now just enjoy.

You are going to get a lot of rewards by simple tweaking and adjusting the sound to your taste. That on-the-fly VTA adjustment is a dream to use and VERY useful for the different record thickness. You can change the sound significantly with that.

By the way, I have a solid stage phono preamp I am going to be selling. Look in the For Sale section soon.

Plus my mother is going to Delhi on Thursday and I just realized that I can send it with her if needed. That way it SAFELY gets to India! I should have thought of this before.

Hi Shaizada
The stock arm 10.5iSE version does not come with on-the-fly-VTA - in fact this is what they had to give up to get the price down. Did you buy the classic with the 10.5i or the SE version?

thanks

 

[myriad]

Congrats Mahiruha!
That looks a stunning table. Would love to listen the sound once the cart is burnt and set up.
Regards
Vasu

 

[mahiruha]

Thanks to fellow Vinyl lovers for their best wishes. Really looking forward to properly match the loading on the cartridge and then I will post my detailed impression.

Steven: I was interested in the Sumiko blu point 2 Cart beacuse you are happily using it with Viren's phono pre amp and it is a high output moving coil cartridge and your inputs regarding all these things are really valuable.To be honest with you this entire turntable setup with cartridge, table phono stage , amplifier , cable is more or less like arranging a marriage. Two different families has to be choosen from random samples and then serious effort initiated to find compatibility in them and in some cases if they are not compatible some tweaks are applied to make them compatible.

Sahizada: Your offer regarding the SS phono stage is really tempting. Let me do some reading on it. Be prepared to to answer some questions.

Vasu: I will definitely let you know once the things are properly setup.You are most welcome to visit my place. It would be nice to have your opinion. I am also getting the Michel Fermer turntable set up DVD to get some more insight into the Vinyl setup you can have a look at it as well.

Also Sridhar from Arn Systems is a fantastic guy to deal with very helpful.
Thanks.

 

[stevieboy]

Thanks to fellow Vinyl lovers for their best wishes. Really looking forward to properly match the loading on the cartridge and then I will post my detailed impression.

Steven: I was interested in the Sumiko blu point 2 Cart beacuse you are happily using it with Viren's phono pre amp and it is a high output moving coil cartridge and your inputs regarding all these things are really valuable.To be honest with you this entire turntable setup with cartridge, table phono stage , amplifier , cable is more or less like arranging a marriage. Two different families has to be choosen from random samples and then serious effort initiated to find compatibility in them and in some cases if they are not compatible some tweaks are applied to make them compatible.

mahiruha,

i think of it this way. first learn about the quirks, characteristics, faults, plus points of various parties, then see whom you can match with whom. things will seem less random then. also you shouldnt have to tweak things, when components mate naturally that's when you truly experience audio nirvana!

the sumiko blue point no 2 is a well known match with project so no surprises hiding there. it also has been a reputed performer so no surprise lurking there either if you really want to try the sumiko sound try the sumiko blue point special. its a nude cartridge and a well reputed performer. or perhaps the blackbird.

your cart is excellent and ought to open up after some hours of use say a month or two. i think you have the 20X-L version check out retip options from soundsminths later on if you want to upgrade. the phono amplifier is a superb one and you shouldn't have to upgrade, once you fix the tubes and find a suitable transformer which am sure viren will be helping you with you'll hear its true potential. incidentally i've read quite a few reviews and noted people saying that half of the bad sound is not cos the components aren't good they're just not matched properly so you have high end carts mated with high end phonoamps but no matching so major underperformance happens.

personally i have found vinyl so good, i have exited digital completely. my system now comprises only of the turntable, phono amp and SET amp. i find myself playing more vinyl now! previously i used to play cd's cos the wadia was there and i felt i had to use it but every time i played a cd i was harshly reminded of just how wide the gap was. i suspect you're gonna be playing more vinyl too with your superb table now!

this clarity also had a major benefit. i had placed my table temporarily on a wood sheet (my amp crate cover actually), below which was a black sort of spongy packing sheet. and the sound was becoming deader and deader i was vaguely aware of this when sachi had come over but no clue what was happening. now with the extraneous components gone, i've placed the table on a flat surface and it sounds far more airy now. notes have better decay seemingly lasting forever. getting sandboxes done for all three components now. there was a nice line in this movie dead ringers i had seen on utv world movies jeremy irons 'in order to really enjoy life don't you think you need to simplify life' very true i've found. enjoying vinyl more now :licklips:

regards

 

[mahiruha]

Hi Steven,
well I fully agree with you that to bring the best out of the equipments one needs to match them. That's why while choosing the stereo setup I went for the Lyrita where the amplifier and the speakers are matched. It saves a lot of hassle to move around and audition things and I am pretty happy with it. When I introduced this VPI TT to the system then again the question of matching come to the place. The dynavector Cartridge I am using is moving coil cartridge and perform at its best with a load of 1K ohm but Viren's phono pre amp is meant to work with a load of 47Kohm which is standard. So when I played it originally there were some issues but when the phono stage load is reduced close to 1k ohm by adding some resistor to the interconnect the vinyl playback came back to life. It sounds very good but I know there is still scope for improvement. I am looking for a phono pre amp which will enable to vary the load so that I can locate the sweet spot according to my taste. I manage to locate one soundsmith moving coil phono cartridge MCP2 . Do you have any suggestions?
Soundsmith built phono preamplifiers
It gives the option to vary the load between 10 ohms to 5K ohms. I am also toying with the idea to make 3 different interconnects with different resistors so that I get the resultant load of 1k ohm , 2k ohms and 3k ohms and see how it affects the poerformence.
Here is a nice article on phono pre amps
All About The Phono Preamp

Regarding placement of turntable you can try and get a 2 inch thick granite slab and put spikes below and put your turntable on top of it. If you already have the sand box made let us know if you feel any changes.

Regarding my cartridge I am told it takes 20-30 hours to settle down.Lets see how it goes. I will post if I find significant changes. there is no denying the fact whatever I heard in my project was much better than CD and VPI has improved things in the possitive direction only.

Thanks.