Vinyl Setup

[hseplak]

Hello Everybody

I want a vinyl setup, looking for new setup as I don't want to go hunting for parts if the used one creates problem, will be hooking up with Marantz pm6004 and wharfedale 10.2s,completely newbie in this field, suggestions required, budget 'moderate the better' also where to find vinyls in Mumbai?

thanks.

 

[dheerajin]

Hello Everybody

I want a vinyl setup, looking for new setup as I don't want to go hunting for parts if the used one creates problem, will be hooking up with Marantz pm6004 and wharfedale 10.2s,completely newbie in this field, suggestions required, budget 'moderate the better' also where to find vinyls in Mumbai?

thanks.

There are TTs available in India by companies like Project,Denon,and many other brands. Based on your budget , you have to decide.Browse through Flipkart, amazon and others and you will get the idea of the price and then ask in this forum what to choose.

Happy Hunting..

Dheeraj

 

[omishra]

I don't want to go hunting for parts if the used one creates problem,

IMO for older you may not have to go on part hunting. But for new cheaper you may have to do this YMMV

 

[dheerajin]

IMO for older you may not have to go on part hunting. But for new cheaper you may have to do this YMMV

Yes..older TTs were built like Tank..new ones are plasticky..

 

[hseplak]

IMO for older you may not have to go on part hunting. But for new cheaper you may have to do this YMMV

but I don't want to go that cheaper that's why I mentioned 'moderate budget'.....

 

[pathakajit]

Hello Everybody

I want a vinyl setup, looking for new setup as I don't want to go hunting for parts if the used one creates problem, will be hooking up with Marantz pm6004 and wharfedale 10.2s,completely newbie in this field, suggestions required, budget 'moderate the better' also where to find vinyls in Mumbai?

thanks.

Congratulations on your decision to experience vinyl..

A FM recently acquired a new audio technical AT60 turntable. There are similar offerings by denon (DP29F), Sony (PX250LH), etc.. These TTs are pretty decent performers and good for starters.
With vintage turntables though, you will certainly get better build quality and better sound quality in most cases too. They will also allow future upgrades of cartridges, tonearms and pretty much every component, should you choose to take that route. The modern TTs cannot usually be upgraded and come with factory presets.

If your heart/mind is set on a modern TT, it may help to connect with FMs who have modern TTs to get reviews, if possible, listen to their equipment and check how it sounds.

Good quality preowned (vintage)TTs are often sold by our experienced FMs who can guide, should a problem arise in future or with upgrades.

 

[sandipandgp]

First of all sorry for coming in between and seeking suggestion to the avid vinyl lovers. I am getting one Technics SL -D3 TT without Headshell and Cartridge , and the price asked is 11 K . Is it OK to go for it ? Please suggest .

 

[reubensm]

First of all sorry for coming in between and seeking suggestion to the avid vinyl lovers. I am getting one Technics SL -D3 TT without Headshell and Cartridge , and the price asked is 11 K . Is it OK to go for it ? Please suggest .

One really can't comment on the price without taking a look at the TT itself. Price ranges for mass-manufactured Technics direct drives can range between 6k and 15k depending on many factors. First of all, Technics manual turntables command the highest price, because there were the marquee models mass-manufactured by Technics. Then comes the semi automatic turntables and the least valuable are the automatics. Not because the automatics are bad or of lesser quality in any way, but its just that those into serious Hi-Fi are not very comfortable with the mechanicals that come with them. The SL-D3 is a fully automatic turntable.

Another factor that has no bearing generally on the price is whether the turntable has a servo controlled or quartz controlled drive unit. The quartz controlled units are perceived to be more accurate when compared to the servo models. The SL-D3 is a servo model.

Again, price depends on the functionality, originality of the turntable (without any make-shift replacement parts), ownership and service history, cosmetic condition, condition of the dust cover, dust cover hinges, turntable feet, turntable mat and tonearm clip. All parts of the tonearm should be original especially the counter-weight. Technics turntables usually came with a standard technics headshell and an ordinary sounding technics cart. Ideally the seller should throw in a headshell and a japanese mass market cart for you. If the turntable is sold without headshell and cart, it would mean that the seller is attempting to sell this separately. Perhaps there is a more expensive cart fitted so he wants to sell it separately. Keep all these aspects in mind when you look at the price you pay.

Here is an interesting site which outlines all the TT models from Technics and their original prices. Good to know info:

Vintage Technics Turntables

 

[reubensm]

Hello Everybody

I want a vinyl setup, looking for new setup as I don't want to go hunting for parts if the used one creates problem, will be hooking up with Marantz pm6004 and wharfedale 10.2s,completely newbie in this field, suggestions required, budget 'moderate the better' also where to find vinyls in Mumbai?

thanks.

Venturing into the world of turntables and being a happy camper depends solely on ONE major factor namely, your knowledge of turntables and their functionality. Getting into the world of vinyl is generally an evolution of sorts for the enthusiast as one has to start with the roots and evolve over a period of time into a master, if not a grand master

If you are completely new and have no clue about anything related to turntables, its better to go for a simple mass market entry level fully automatic turntable with a built in phono preamplifier. These turntables are usually driven by belts and are the closest one can get to plug-and-play. Once you get started with one of these, keep in touch with the phono section of this forum and you'll be on your vinyl journey. There are popular models from Denon, Sony, Lenco (the new ones), Audio Technica, etc out there which will fit the bill.

If you already know about TTs and have some experience, then the only way to go is the vintage route. Contrary to your belief, if you get a vintage TT in good condition, you'd never have to go running for parts, especially if this vintage TT is made by companies like Technics and Garrard. They are usually so well built that if handled carefully, will last more than a life time. The challenge here is to find one in great condition.

Try to get yourself familiar with the workings and sound of a Turntable before buying one. That would also keep you on track with what to expect.

 

[hseplak]

If you already know about TTs and have some experience, then the only way to go is the vintage route. Contrary to your belief, if you get a vintage TT in good condition, you'd never have to go running for parts, especially if this vintage TT is made by companies like Technics and Garrard. They are usually so well built that if handled carefully, will last more than a life time. The challenge here is to find one in great condition.

Try to get yourself familiar with the workings and sound of a Turntable before buying one. That would also keep you on track with what to expect.

That's what I already said that I have no experience in TTs and in a way no time also to pursue and dedicate ,time,money and energy for building a great and a fine TT setup but would like to enjoy and experience this type of music also, so therefore would like to go for a fast one.so its a new setup for me, please help me setting it.
Thanks.

 

[reubensm]

That's what I already said that I have no experience in TTs and in a way no time also to pursue and dedicate ,time,money and energy for building a great and a fine TT setup but would like to enjoy and experience this type of music also, so therefore would like to go for a fast one.so its a new setup for me, please help me setting it.
Thanks.

Its very simple, get yourself a fully automatic turntable with an inbuilt phono preamp, connect it to the Aux, CD or Tape input on your amplifier, place a clean record on and you're ready to listen to your very first record.

Setting up the Turntable itself will vary from model to model. Once you decide on the model, we can help you take it out of the box and set it up.

 

[sandipandgp]

Thanks reubensm for quick and precise reply . i will check all the aspect before taking a decision finally.

 

[aarmath]

IMHO, buying a second hand TT, especially the likes of Technics, Sony et al, have been a disappointing experience.
If you have no idea what to look for while buying a used TT chances are you could end up buying a working dud that will eventually become a dud. I know people who refurbish the likes of SL-D3 & other Technics models with el cheapo parts that at best simply extend the life of the TT (Read: Not running as normally intended but just about work) or at worst start giving problems (Tonearm not working properly, crappy cartridge/or needle, drifting speed of the platter etc.)
If anything this hinders a vinyl aficionado's experience.
I would strongly recommend you to avoid the used TT market scene in India & instead buy a brand new one.
There are great brand new TTs available from the likes of ProJect (Belt Drive) & reasonable good direct drive TTs from Audio Technica. They would be a tad expensive but will give you a great hassle-free experience.

 

[Vinay2013]

P.S. Unfortunately this particular post is more related to my background and love for music rather than explaining about experience of my recent turntable. I will share the TT experience in the subsequent post.

Hi hseplak

I recently bought an Audio Technica AT LP60 Turntable. Let me tell you the background, my experience and very honest confession to set up this turntable.

In 80s and 90s, My father has an antique gramophone along with many records. There were no takers for this kind of music that time because audio cassettes with Stereo decks, Phillips Powerhouse, similar Videocon systems and Sony double cassette decks were prevalent at that time. It was sold to a kabadiwala and my sister made several wall hanging decorative pieces of those rare records of Munni Begum, Pyasa, Jagjit Singh and many more. I was non effected with all these that time. After sometime, I went to my Uncle's place and saw a Garrard Turntable. I asked my cousin to play it. He played a record of Qurbani with some one lakh Sony Hifi system. I was amazed with the sound quality produced. But I still did not think of buying a turntable because it was a thing of past (How terribly wrong I was). So I was listening my music through Audio Cassettes and subsequently CDs. CDs were perfect as they did not have the normal problems of reels coming out, head and pinch roller cleaning. I still believe that no other system can provide the quality of sound produced by CDs if it is set up properly. Anyways, dedicated listening of music halted for 7-8 years due to my shifting to outstation for my professional studies and than job requirement. A big contributor to this was TV as well. I used to listen the music here and there via small radio, Walkman etc but not very regular. So my desire of music was buried somewhere due to my struggle for settling myself.

So how it changed. I was looking for a home theatre system for my new Apartment (which is not yet delivered to me, courtesy our great real estate developers). At that time like others I was thinking that Bose is the last world in Hifi. We went to Bose showroom for auditions and were greatly impressed with the sound quality. It was way expensive system (approx. 2-3 lakhs) which was way out of budget. In the same mall there were two other showrooms - ONKYO and Cinebells, We went there as well and took the audition and were surprised by the sound quality produced by Onkyo for movies. My wife though liked the sound quality but did not like the aesthetical part and big obtrusive look of Amp and speakers because our mind sets were already decided by Bose's jewel cube sleek speakers (See how influential marketing strategy Bose has).

Anyways, we wanted to buy bose but it was out of budget so I decided to look at the alternatives (e.g small sleek speakers which sound as good as bose). So I was searching internet when I came across this Forum. I read some relevant material and was surprised to see that there is a lot of people like me looking for suggestions and experienced FMs helping patiently and selflessly. So from that time around one and a quarter year back, I am a regular visitor of this forum.

This forum is so influential that it had me set up a projector, Surround Audio System, Stereo system and finally this Turntable AT LP60....

Sorry for the long post
....... to be continued

 

[reubensm]

IMHO, buying a second hand TT, especially the likes of Technics, Sony et al, have been a disappointing experience.
If you have no idea what to look for while buying a used TT chances are you could end up buying a working dud that will eventually become a dud. I know people who refurbish the likes of SL-D3 & other Technics models with el cheapo parts that at best simply extend the life of the TT (Read: Not running as normally intended but just about work) or at worst start giving problems (Tonearm not working properly, crappy cartridge/or needle, drifting speed of the platter etc.)
If anything this hinders a vinyl aficionado's experience.
I would strongly recommend you to avoid the used TT market scene in India & instead buy a brand new one.
There are great brand new TTs available from the likes of ProJect (Belt Drive) & reasonable good direct drive TTs from Audio Technica. They would be a tad expensive but will give you a great hassle-free experience.

I think the points mentioned are very valid. If you are buying pre-used in India, its always safe to buy from a user who has owned it (perhaps from new) and is upgrading. If you go the dealer way, you can end up with a not-so-good one. Finding a good pre-used TT requires some patience and knowledge (and of course, some luck as well).

 

[Vinay2013]

.......Continued

I am coming directly to the point as I could not stop myself in the previous post.

So, rather than asking you why you want to buy a turntable, let me answer why I bought it. Contrary to the popular belief of warm analog sound, I bought it because of the following reasons:

I loved the way it spins the records
I wanted to show off to my friends and relatives that I own a turntable and records
I wanted to have a turntable because it looks cool in your room
I never expected it to be my main source of listening music and never expected it to be as perfect as listening through CDs despite whatever I read or heard because I know this is not possible (A lot of FMs may come to counter this. I am extremely sorry if it hurts the sentiments of some people). What I know is that it is difficult to maintain with full precision any turntable or LP Records of this world. So it must have ticks or pops during music which some how we like it because as a human being we could relate to minor flaws. Records have inherent limited range though we like it due to earlier years nostalgia or so called warm sound. In this world of unlimited downloads and MP3, we can really listen, pay attention and appreciate good music due to limited number of tracks in a record.

Due to these reasons, I did not want to spend a lot of money and decided a budget of 10K. I bought one of the cheapest available turntable (AT LP60) after reviewing several international website. Before that I considered Denon DP29F, Lenco (3886/3887 not old models) sony and pioneer entry level models. Finalised AT LP60 because it was under 10K, it has inbuilt phonostage, automatic operation, replaceable cartridge. It was a blind buy through a website called Shopperbay.in which procure the materials from US and deliver it to Indian address. Received in around 8-9 days. A little assembly was required which is easy and can be done by reading manual. You need a step down adaptor as well. So far I have bought on 3 LPs (All new - Norah Jones -Come away with me, Jagjit Singh- Marasim, 1942 a love story. They all are playing great with no trouble so far and surprisingly sound quality in this low budget turntable is as good as cd player so far.

So my suggestion to you would be - If you have limited budget like me you can go for this turntable. If you have higher budget you can look at Rega, Music Hall and ProJect entry level TTs or even consider AT120. Please also consider the phonostage preamp cost.
Also note that average price of records in India is Rs. 700/- to 900/- which I don't think is going to come down. Even older titles which were worth 50-100 Rs. sometime ago are selling at 500/- to xxx figures.

Please consider the above mentioned points before you plan to buy a TT.

We have some very knowledgeable and helpful members here so you can always count on them regarding any problem you face.

I do not have much knowledge and these all are my personal opinion so do not trust blindly.

Have a great day. Thank you for your patience.


R, Vinay

 

[reubensm]

My opinion, comparison between vinyl and other digital sources is subjective and there are loads of dependencies. With most dependencies under control, you can achieve better sound with vinyl. For a turntable the dependencies start with the condition of the record, type of pressing and go as far as your amplification. Most of these comparisons are very subjective and in personal taste. The fact is that a Rs.1800 sony DVD player playing mp3s through your amp may sound way better than a Rs.50,000 turntable playing a Rs.2500 record if these dependencies are not controlled. The ability to control these dependencies comes with experience. In the olden times, there were no cds and hence, mainstream people never cared how vinyl sounded, they just played and listened. Then came cassette tapes and high quality cassette decks. It is then that mainstream people started paying more attention to quality of vinyl sound that they listened to. Then came CDs with so-called "perfect" sound reproduction and then few vinyl buffs found out that by paying attention to the dependencies, they can achieve outstanding results from vinyl.

I always advise newbies that if they are indulging in vinly to make comparisions with digital media, they should stay away and indulge only after a proper education. If not, it will only end in disappointment.

Playing and maintaining vinyl records is an art and turntables are not plug and play like digital devices.

Never run away from vinyl by looking at the prices on flipkart. If you look out, spread the word and be patient, you may dig out mint vinyl from friends and family for little or nothing. You may end up getting better pressings that the digital re-releases on flipkart

 

[hseplak]

You are great person vinay, you have explained it all very well....thanks!

 

[Vinay2013]

My opinion, comparison between vinyl and other digital sources is subjective and there are loads of dependencies. With most dependencies under control, you can achieve better sound with vinyl. For a turntable the dependencies start with the condition of the record, type of pressing and go as far as your amplification. Most of these comparisons are very subjective and in personal taste. The fact is that a Rs.1800 sony DVD player playing mp3s through your amp may sound way better than a Rs.50,000 turntable playing a Rs.2500 record if these dependencies are not controlled. The ability to control these dependencies comes with experience. In the olden times, there were no cds and hence, mainstream people never cared how vinyl sounded, they just played and listened. Then came cassette tapes and high quality cassette decks. It is then that mainstream people started paying more attention to quality of vinyl sound that they listened to. Then came CDs with so-called "perfect" sound reproduction and then few vinyl buffs found out that by paying attention to the dependencies, they can achieve outstanding results from vinyl.

I always advise newbies that if they are indulging in vinly to make comparisions mwith digital edia, they should stay away and indulge only after a proper education. If not, it will only end in disappointment.

Playing and maintaining vinyl records is an art and turntables are not plug and play like digital devices.

Never run away from vinyl by looking at the prices on flipkart. If you look out, spread the word and be patient, you may dig out mint vinyl from friends and family for little or nothing. You may end up getting better pressings that the digital re-releases on flipkart

Very true. That's why I never expected it to be perfect and I got much more than what I was expected from my TT. Sadly nowadays most of us start vinyl journey with the unreasonably high expectations of outstanding sound quality and out of the world experience thinking we just need to put the record on it and magic will happen.

Another let downer is scrupulous people trying to cheat and extract money from new vinyl lovers due to lack of proper knowledge.

I have just entered into this world and in no hurry so definitely will take my time exploring other aspects. I am already in love with this. Not sure may be in future, probably if opportunity comes I may lay my hands in vintage beauties as well.

By the way all of my above set ups (except few) are highly budget oriented and temporary due to the fact that I can not wait any more to experience the music. I intend to invest in more quality products when I get possession of my new home.

I apologize from the bottom of my heart if any of the lines in my above posts offended the sentiments of any one of the FMs. I have great regard for this forum and its knowledgeable people.

R, Vinay

 

[aarmath]

I must say, I'm thrilled to read up on the informative posts out here with regards to Vinyl.
Time was when I would be snagging up Lps from Chorus Bazaar for as low Rs. 15 - 30 around 1999-2000 hereabouts. Those Lps are still being played (Eagles, Dr. feelgood, REO speedwagon, Journey, Boston, Whitesnake, Cat Stevens, CCR, Bad Company, Dire Straits, Duran Duran, David Bowie among others). Most of them were foreign pressings. Indian pressings were pretty crazy. Case in point is Bangles' Different Light - I have the Indian & US pressings. No guesses which sounds great. But here's where it gets interesting - Pick an Indian pressing before 1980 & they sound GREAT! I have the double Lp Ost compilation of the 70s movie FM - Indian pressing released in 1977. & it sounds fantastic. The same applies for my Best Of release of the 60s group - David Gate & Bread released in 1972 (Gasp!)....
If there are any old timers who have worked in the music label scene in the 60s/70s maybe their inputs would solve this Indian mystery of great quality vs crappy releases before & after 1980.
Any thoughts on this?

On new Lp releases I have a simple thumb rule since thy are terribly expensive - Avoid buying stuff of new bands (Everything is digital..). Look for those bands whose albums were originally released in Lp format. Led Zeppelin, Jimi Hendrix (The Sony reissues are fantastic), Mad Season, Mother Love Bone, Temple Of The Dog, U2, Supertramp, Smashing Pumpkins etc. have been my recent purchases. BUT the caveat is to have a great TT & a reasonably good audio system....

My best wishes to everyone embarking on this exciting endeavour...