What do Audiophiles like and buy for their cars?

[avexplorer]

Good amps, although not very very highly recommended for SQ applications.

I'm not too sure if I would consider "recomendations" as the absolute truth. They certainly are a guideline (especially when it comes to finding out how reliable a product is e.g. if the firmware is buggy). But when it comes to acoustics...the only recommendation I heed to is that of my own ears. Over 3 months I had tried:
RF, Velocity, BA, Alpine, LA.

My personal favourite are a brand called helix and audison which I didnt find in the country at that time. The other reason I picked MTX was due its small form factor.

Very right, glad to hear that you are well entertained by the setup. Certainly matters the most.

Hmm, I'm a bit of a no-equalizer freak though. I wouldn't expect good quality car audio of the kinds that you describe to go dhik-chik actually, but I'm sure you can fine tune intricately with that equalizer.

I dont like them too but thats only when it comes to stereo setup that I have @ home as they can play in a more acoustically friendly environment and not amidst glass, metal and what not.
In the car I needed to suppress certain frequencies (reverse base) that caused a rattle.

And about dhik-chik, I was surpised at how awefully bad some of the very well known brands sounded.

Are all 4 speakers playing full range? No bass cut on any of the speakers? Or are only the rears playing full range? And if so what are the rears, Utopia or K2? Don't they rattle a bit of the doors and the door panels when playing bass? Who installed the setup?

Equalization was also important because I load the K2 Power with LFs and UBs with mids and highs.

I have used plane chants thruout the body of the car doors. I have tuned the setup to play pristine at a particular (prefered) volume beyond which they do rattle... but I dont listen at that volume...so doesn't concern me...


In short: Amongst my priorities was to keep my car as a cozy little car and not transform it into a soundmachine. Many decisions I made were in line with this principle.

 

[Jasdeep Brar]

I use a combination of Focal Utopia N6 and 165 K2P. When it comes to comparing with Bremen I had a Clarion DXZ958RMC earlier which I now use it in another car. While I would say the clarion was very good, but I find the Bremen better especially when it comes to radio reception. I dont remember the panasonic model, but I remember it was their top most in line 18 months back. I had just tried it on but again was never really impressed. I do not really count on the japs when it comes to music...be it car audio or home audio.

Its all about listening preference at the end of the day but to be honest one of the best HU's i have come across and finally put in our cars are all Japanese and made in Japan.

McIntosh MX-5000
Clarion DRZ-9255
Panasonic CQ-TX5500
Kenwood K-CD01

Maybe Bremen is excellent in radio reception. I cannot comment on that as I have not compared the radio section.

All of the above are reference units from the respective companies and nothing comes closer in their respective price range in CD playback and sound quality.

Also its very important to have a good quality amplifier to get the best out of quality speakers like Focal along with good cables.

 

[avexplorer]

Its all about listening preference at the end of the day but to be honest one of the best HU's i have come across and finally put in our cars are all Japanese and made in Japan.

McIntosh MX-5000
Clarion DRZ-9255
Panasonic CQ-TX5500
Kenwood K-CD01

Maybe Bremen is excellent in radio reception. I cannot comment on that as I have not compared the radio section.

All of the above are reference units from the respective companies and nothing comes closer in their respective price range in CD playback and sound quality.

Now thats subjective, but more importantly I'm happy to know that there are folks who consider the japs to be outstanding in music playback. To me, they in general are "all frills and no thrills".

Also its very important to have a good quality amplifier to get the best out of quality speakers like Focal along with good cables.

So what to you would have been the most recomended equipments to power the focals?

 

[Ajay Kamath]

Now thats subjective, but more importantly I'm happy to know that there are folks who consider the japs to be outstanding in music playback. To me, they in general are "all frills and no thrills".

It would be wrong to generalize all Japanese brands like that. Although I'm sure you are referring here to very mass-market brands. High-end Jap brands can pack in a lot. No way I'd rule out the Japs.

So what to you would have been the most recomended equipments to power the focals?

You said you don't believe in recommendations, but anyway here goes

For the Focal Utopias:

Focal's new power amps
Luxman
Sinfoni
Steg
Brax

Not in any particular order. (Although it did fall in order of decreasing alphabet count)

MTX dilutes the experience. No RF, Velocity, BA, Alpine, LA (I mean LA?!?!) either.

 

[avexplorer]

It would be wrong to generalize all Japanese brands like that. Although I'm sure you are referring here to very mass-market brands. High-end Jap brands can pack in a lot. No way I'd rule out the Japs.

I would. I never considered them even while setting up my home A/V; despite the fact there were some reasonably decent ones Denon, Marantz etc. I absolutely detest Yamaha and Nakamichi. Same goes for some of the US brands like BA, JBL, Bose etc.

Focal UB in home A/V section is way beyond my budget

You said you don't believe in recommendations, but anyway here goes
For the Focal Utopias:
Focal's new power amps
Luxman
Sinfoni
Steg
Brax

Not in any particular order. (Although it did fall in order of decreasing alphabet count)

MTX dilutes the experience. No RF, Velocity, BA, Alpine, LA (I mean LA?!?!) either.

Finally we have more of an agreement. Out of the 5 brands you have listed down, 4 are european (except Luxman). MTX amps are certainly not in the same league as the others you have mentioned, and I never did vouch for their fidelity. But they, I feel are a better lot amongst the US brands. Fischer audio amplifiers (my personal favourites) that include Brax and Helix brands weren't available in India at that point in time. Focal amps are a new release.

I would be moving to a Helix soon; infact I have already ordered a Helix A4 competetion. MTX was a stop gap selected for its small form factor

 

[Ajay Kamath]

I would. I never considered them even while setting up my home A/V; despite the fact there were some reasonably decent ones Denon, Marantz etc. I absolutely detest Yamaha and Nakamichi. Same goes for some of the US brands like BA, JBL, Bose etc.

So what electronics did you get finally for home? Denon and Pioneer both make good high-end A/V products. Teac too. What speakers, if you didnt get JM Labs?

Finally we have more of an agreement. Out of the 5 brands you have listed down, 4 are european (except Luxman). MTX amps are certainly not in the same league as the others you have mentioned, and I never did vouch for their fidelity. But they, I feel are a better lot amongst the US brands. Fischer audio amplifiers (my personal favourites) that include Brax and Helix brands weren't available in India at that point in time. Focal amps are a new release.

MTX is certainly the best amongst the brands listed. Nice robust stuff. But still not really up there. I agree.

I would be moving to a Helix soon; infact I have already ordered a Helix A4 competetion. MTX was a stop gap selected for its small form factor

I favor Brax.

 

[avexplorer]

So what electronics did you get finally for home? Denon and Pioneer both make good high-end A/V products. Teac too. What speakers, if you didnt get JM Labs?

My final HT Setup:

ELECTRONICS: ARCAM: DV 137 / AVR 350
SPEAKERS: ProAC Studio 140 (Front) / ProAc CC1 (Center) / ProAc Studio 110 (Surrounds)
SUB-WOOFER: ProAc ER1
CABLES:
Front: QED Genesis Silver & QED X-Tube (Bi-Amped)
Center: QED X-Tube (Bi-Wired)
Surrounds: QED Silver Anniversary XT (Bi-Wired)
SubWoofer: QED Quenex SE-SW
INTERCONNECTS:
Audio:Merlin Choppin (both Analog & Digital)
Video: QED HDMi
PROJECTOR: Not-decided (The New Optoma HD81 looks enticing)


I think we should start a different thread for this and not dilute this one...what say you

 

[Jasdeep Brar]

Like Ajay said not all Japanese companies are bad. In car audio the max HU manufacturers are based in Japan only. Sound Monitor, McIntosh, Denon, Alpine, JVC, Pioneer, Kenwood, Alpine, Clarion, Panasonic etc. Blaupunkt is the only exception from Europe.

Moreover for focals I would recommend a good class AB design like the following amps :

Audison
McIntosh
Sinfoni
Genesis
Luxman

Out of the above mentioned brands. Audison is officially available in India.

 

[avexplorer]

Like Ajay said not all Japanese companies are bad. In car audio the max HU manufacturers are based in Japan only. Sound Monitor, McIntosh, Denon, Alpine, JVC, Pioneer, Kenwood, Alpine, Clarion, Panasonic etc. Blaupunkt is the only exception from Europe.

Moreover for focals I would recommend a good class AB design like the following amps :

Audison
McIntosh
Sinfoni
Genesis
Luxman

Out of the above mentioned brands. Audison is officially available in India.

Well, I have nothing against folks who like or prefer japanese brands, its their personal choice. However, to me (and many more I know) they mostly dont even exist.

To me, you can pick any product from any Japanese brand, you'll always find that there are products from the European counterpart that are a league ahead. Not viceversa. In terms of A/V, european brands beat the hell out of japs in competetion. Yes I certainly do admit that to afford an european brand, one needs a deeper pocket , but before that awareness.

Forget, car audio (they are sophisticated equipments), I have a normal 29" Grundig CRT TV that I use in my bedroom and I haven't yet found any Jap brand till date that even came close to it in picture quality/ sound quality / and ease of use.

I maintain: japs are all frills and hype. They could be compared amongst each other but not to good european brands and models

 

[Ajay Kamath]

Well, I have nothing against folks who like or prefer japanese brands, its their personal choice. However, to me (and many more I know) they mostly dont even exist.

With the exception of drive-units and loudspeaker cabinets, almost 90% of electronic components used for making 'European' high-end electronics is sourced from Asia, most with their origin in Japan. And by 90%, I mean 90% of the most critical components, the ones that lend the most to the end result.

'Don't even exist' can be explained as 'Don't even know that they exist' with most people. But that's excusable, a better company is always one that markets itself better.

To me, you can pick any product from any Japanese brand, you'll always find that there are products from the European counterpart that are a league ahead. Not viceversa. In terms of A/V, european brands beat the hell out of japs in competetion. Yes I certainly do admit that to afford an european brand, one needs a deeper pocket , but before that awareness.

That's again a mass market story. Europeans use Japanese components, use it to their benefit, and do it well. They can also tell better stories than the Japs. That sure goes a longer way.

Forget, car audio (they are sophisticated equipments), I have a normal 29" Grundig CRT TV that I use in my bedroom and I haven't yet found any Jap brand till date that even came close to it in picture quality/ sound quality / and ease of use.

Cannot comment about TVs. I'll stay out of this. Although I'd wonder where the CR-Tube and loudspeaker drive-uinits for the Grundig came from anyway!

I maintain: japs are all frills and hype. They could be compared amongst each other but not to good european brands and models

If you insist, kind sir. By the way, where is your MTX amp made? Clue: It's not even Japan!

Disclaimer: I personally don't have any affilation with a single Japanese brand(s), but I have been dazzled by enough to outright outrule them. There are far more European brands that have managed the same, and I do very loyally represent a few of them in India, but I would not let this business aspect of mine stand in the way of justice to the Japs.

 

[avexplorer]

With the exception of drive-units and loudspeaker cabinets, almost 90% of electronic components used for making 'European' high-end electronics is sourced from Asia, most with their origin in Japan. And by 90%, I mean 90% of the most critical components, the ones that lend the most to the end result.

'Don't even exist' can be explained as 'Don't even know that they exist' with most people. But that's excusable, a better company is always one that markets itself better.



That's again a mass market story. Europeans use Japanese components, use it to their benefit, and do it well. They can also tell better stories than the Japs. That sure goes a longer way.



Cannot comment about TVs. I'll stay out of this. Although I'd wonder where the CR-Tube and loudspeaker drive-uinits for the Grundig came from anyway!



If you insist, kind sir. By the way, where is your MTX amp made? Clue: It's not even Japan!

Disclaimer: I personally don't have any affilation with a single Japanese brand(s), but I have been dazzled by enough to outright outrule them. There are far more European brands that have managed the same, and I do very loyally represent a few of them in India, but I would not let this business aspect of mine stand in the way of justice to the Japs.

Wish u all the very best in your persuit of getting Japs the justice that you think they deserve...meanwhile allow me to enjoy my all "european" car hi-fi and home A/V setup that I truely enjoy listening to for as long as they last...until that time I would continue to be biased towards those amazing brands from europe...thanx

 

[bhagwan]

Focal Utopia - Be [Would love to hear it] !!!!!

Hi! Ajay,

Yesterday a client of mine showed me his GETZ with a complete FOCAL Top of the line speakers

Prithvi

Is this car in Bangalore ?

I would love to hear it; What Power Amplifiers ?

Can I hear it in Jan, 2007 ?
I will be there for the audio show. I would love to experiance it; Please do try.

Did your client buy it from Preeti Trading [official importer] or from a grey supplier - abroad ?

Thanks,

SHANTI !

 

[clipto333]

Wish u all the very best in your persuit of getting Japs the justice that you think they deserve...meanwhile allow me to enjoy my all "european" car hi-fi and home A/V setup that I truely enjoy listening to for as long as they last...until that time I would continue to be biased towards those amazing brands from europe...thanx

hi everyone,(gunbir,jb,ajay a.k.a. b&t)

just joind this forum.

hi avex,

you comparing bremen with japs?? well some of the japs im familiar with (clarion hx-d2, pioneer p80rs etc) can kick the sh** out of americans and europians. try and compare the spec of the best you think from europe with a clarion hx-d2 or for that matter a pio p80, you'll know what im talking.


ok here are the specs for your blau bremen..

Bremen MP76

Radio
FM, MW, LW, SW
Codem concept DigiCeiver
DDA (DigitalDirectionalAntenna)
Optimized digital channel separation (SHARX)
42 presets
Updated station list
FM frequency response (Hz) -3 dB 42
MW interference suppression
Connection possibility for second FM-antenna

CD
CD-R/RW-compatible
Frequency response (Hz) -1 dB
CD Mix/CD-Text
DMS (Disk Management System)

MMC/SD
Card reader for MMC/SD
Formatting FAT 16

MP3/WMA player
Playback of MP3/WMA*
Display of up to 127 directories/file names
Display of ID3 tags up to 30 characters (V 1)
Bit rate 8 – 320 Kbit
Supports variable bit rates

Amplifier
DSA Max (DigitalSoundAdjustment)
Dynamic Noise Covering (DNC)
Self-calibrating equalizer
Number of channels/bands 4/27
Sound-/ Hall effects
Runtime adjustment
Active 2-way frequency devider
High-pass filter separate for front/rear
Source-specific sound settings
Sound presets (music)
X-Bass with variable center frequency
Preamp-Out 4-channel (5 V), gold plated
Internal power amp on/off
Aux-In 2
Sub-Out: var. gain/frequency
Center out (adjustable)
RMS power (DIN 45324) at 14.4 V 4 x 26 watts
4 x 50 Watts Max. Power

Miscellaneous
Display technology Full Graphic DOT
Flip release panel motorized
Softkey operating concept
Display colour VarioColour (4,096 colours)
Keyboard illumination VarioColour (16 colours)
Display brightness
Angle setting
Variable welcome message
Theft protection removable flip panel
Connections: dimmer/telephone mute
Microphone for Automatic Sound Adjustment included
TMC-Out FM
Prepared for telephone/navigation voice output and audio streaming via external Bluetooth interface (optional)
Window antenna included
Preamp-Out cable included
Dimensions (W x H x D) mm 179/52/160


here are the specs of a low grade dhik chik jap.
clarion hx-d2

TUNER SECTION
Frequency bands
FM: (MHz) 0.05MHz steps 89.0 to 108
MW: (kHz) 9 kHz steps 531 to 1629
LW: (kHz) 3 kHz steps
FM usable sensitivity (dBf) 9
FM 50 dB quieting sensitivity (dBf) 15
FM alternate channel selectivity (dBf) 70
FM stereo separation @1 kHz (dB) 35
FM stereo freq. resp. @ 3 dB (Hz) 30 to 15,000
CD SECTION
Wow/Flutter (WRMS) Below measurable lmits
S/N ratio (dB) 112
Frequency response (Hz) 5 to 20,000
Dynamic range (dB) 100
Harmonic distortion (%) 0.003
GENERAL
Dimensions (W H D), mm 178 50 178
Remote control (W H D), mm 52 125 12
Weight (kg) 1.7
Power consumption: less than 1.4 A
Speaker impedance 4Ω(4Ω to 8Ω allowable)

* Dual 24-bit / 96kHz sampling digital to analogue burr-brown converters and DSP

* Built-in 4-way crossovers

* 5-band parametric equaliser

* Digital time alignment for each line level output

* 8-channel/4-volt gold plate oxygen-free RCA output

* 0.5dB-step electronic volume adjustment circuit

* Copper plated chassis

* External DC/DC converter

* CeNET control of: 6-disc CD changer, and TV tuner

* 2 x 2-channel AUX inputs

* Zinc die-cast faceplate

* Fiber optic input/output

* Vacuum florescent display

* 18FM, 6AM station presets

* CeNET iPod interface compatible

96kHz Sampling D/A Converter


this jap is an audiophile(autophile lol) grade head unit and the one from the blau is a run off the mill packed with features great value for money HU.

you need 27 band eq?? most audiophiles dont use an eq. everything is flat. this is how you listen to music(IMHO). you dont need any eq or loudness or anything.

i have a pio 6850. you can call this a piece of crap with dhik chick sound. but sir the dhik chick is there only if you use the eq. i dont. and i get great sq out of this budget hu.

jasdeep can the bremen run in a active setup? like gunbir is using?

does the bremen have the facility to switch off the display?

sir, what i have written is all bull crap. the fact is you dont need a super duper hi-fi hu if you are satisfied with a low grade one. its all about how you prefer your music to sound. no brand is better than the other. same way no european is better than jap and vice versa.

do you have any idea where most of the electronic are manufactured now?

if you like european so much, why do you drive a korean? if im not wrong you drive a getz.


cheers

clip

take it lightly bro

 

[Kamal]

Good Heavens!-I've read this thread thru& thru and its developed into a solid ego clash .
C'mon, gentlemen, ease up!

 

[ashkal]

Hi! Ajay,
Yesterday a client of mine showed me his GETZ with a complete FOCAL Top of the line speakers with a Blau Bremen, spent a huge sum, and the sound was just amazing.

Prithvi,

hey, hey... what this GETZ (CAR? I guess) Blau, and Focal Top line?
how much is huge sum INR100thousands ? be clear man, there are lot of laymans around here.

thanks, ash

 

[ashkal]

Panasonic is a very nice Head Unit. Very warm and lush sound, good midbass with sweet highs. Classic japanese hi fi design with VU meters, Amber Illumination and Champagne finish. Very hard to find no cier.

Jasdeep,

It is good you have lot of Idea about caraudio, please share with us, put in words that layman like me understands. Panasonic has lot models, which model you are talking and little specification would give man an Idea.

We are in speed, and missing the essentials. Thanks,pl. think your self,standing in other side and write.

ash

 

[ashokdurai]

is there any 4inch 4 speaker component system exisits?