Rajeevkale
Member
Ok thanks
Which Streamer should I buy ?
- Thread starter Rajeevkale
- Start date
Yes Very Well put.
1.5yr ago I stopped my Roon Subscription after 2yrs of using , thinking I'll be happy with the Streamer & Bundled App, And I can get a Streamer at the Cost of Roon Lifetime Subscription ; I tried Cxn V2, Marantz, Audiolab, Bluenode, Allo Products and Audirvana, Jriver etc.. Most of the bundled software is crappy and so non inspiring to use that you're soon bored with it. Usually, the Native Streaming service apps had a better user experience than bundled apps. Finally, Audirvana was having some decent user interface over others; I was ok with Audirvana interface. Recently Audirvana gave big push on moving predominantly to a subscription based model... Who'd subscribe to Audirvana at 70Usd per Year when Stellar Roon interface is available for 120 USD per Year?
Well, that lame Excuse was enough for me to Ditch Audirvana altogether and get back to Roon. This time I Just went with Lifetime Subscription for Roon; now hopefully the software part of streaming is taken care. I can keep changing the hardware at any time, as long as my software experience is excellent. Roon does have its own bugs (actually lots of) but the software gets better with every new iteration. I had my plans to buy a Lumin Network Transport like U1 Mini, but I postponed it (Will stick with MacBook and Allo Signature Devices for the time being) until I rearrange the finances.
Interesting and thanks for sharing. Been trying to get others experience on the topic. Roon is pricey but atleast totally invested to make it progressively better. I start streaming music when I wake up till I go to bed in the night. Its either playing at medium or low volumes or muted for calls. And my entire family is used to mellow music running in the background all day long. So the app experience to change tracks, reduce blind, skip tracks, search and play something we are in the mood in...is an all day affair. And so far I have not found anything better than bubble upnp and hificast to render music from my phone. I don't have roon, so there's that. I am looking for a product to upgrade from Chromecast audio which will be a steamer with dac box to improve the overall performance of CCA and dac in CXA81 but am going to be careful with its ui experience. If anyone has any strong reccomendations keeping hardware and software both in mind..I am absolutely open.
Roon has a 14 days free Trial, Later you can go for Monthly subscription ; to keep the initial investment low. Knowing your flair for Good Software, I'd actually advise you against trying Roon, because you'll end up buying it.
Auralic has a better software amongst Streamers, according to most of the reviews including the ones from Daarko. Its Lightning OS is considered to be quite a delight (and snappiest as well) to use, Do research a bit on Auralic Streamers and see if it suits your requirements.
Yogesh
Well-Known Member
ajuvignesh
Well-Known Member
I have nothing but headaches with chromecast audio. especially with amazon music and Spotify. Either the apps will not connect to Chromecast and if connected, it detaches on its own.
The best bet, IMHO, is RPi with allos
Yogesh
Well-Known Member
Whatever works for you is right.
I am using CCA for a while now without any issues though. Loving it.
D
Deleted member 15865
Guest
The long discontinued Chromecast Audio regularly crops up in discussions on streamers. I’ve never heard it, but from the widely reported user experience, it surely does seem to be a fabulous value for money proposition.
But then, VFM is never a standalone consideration. It’s to be considered along with affordability (budget). Let’s say hypothetically the highest value that can be obtained from a streamer is 100. And the CCA, if you can get it, provides a value of 60 at the price of Rs 5k. That’s a value/cost ratio of 60/5 = 12. Now let’s say another budget streaming alternative costs Rs 15k, but provides a value of 75. Its value/cost ratio works out to 5 which is far lower than that of the CCA.
So what should someone with a budget of Rs 15-20k do? Opt for CCA just because it is much more (2.4 times more) VFM than the other product and let go the additional value of 15?
One can similarly keep extending this to further costlier options and would realise that while the absolute value keeps increasing, the value/cost ratio keeps falling. That’s natural. A product that approaches value of 95 might cost above 2 lacs bringing the value/cost ratio down to an abysmal 0.5. Can that be a valid argument for someone with a budget of 2 lacs (like the OP) to go for CCA instead?
Some call it law of diminishing returns. I’d call it law of increasing cost of excellence. A student would have to study as much (additionally) to go from 80% to 95% marks as he’d have had to go from 50% to 80%. Getting every ounce of additional value from a product that’s already at high absolute value is always going to cost a lot lot more. And that’s why you have audio-video components with 7 digit, even 8 digit INR tags. Someone who buys a product worth 10 lacs clearly knows that he is spending the rest 9 lacs to get as much (additional) value as his first lac got for him. And he happily pays that. Why? A, because he has the budget. And B, because his VFM comparison is not linear, but logarithmic - as it should be.
Please don’t take this as my view on CCA per say. Since budgets are seldom absolute, it might even make sense for someone with budget of say 15k to go for it and save 10k to instead employ it to add some other product/accessory to his chain. But suggesting CCA to someone with a budget of say 2-3 lacs just because of its unbelievable value/cost ratio is being oblivious to the context.
But then, VFM is never a standalone consideration. It’s to be considered along with affordability (budget). Let’s say hypothetically the highest value that can be obtained from a streamer is 100. And the CCA, if you can get it, provides a value of 60 at the price of Rs 5k. That’s a value/cost ratio of 60/5 = 12. Now let’s say another budget streaming alternative costs Rs 15k, but provides a value of 75. Its value/cost ratio works out to 5 which is far lower than that of the CCA.
So what should someone with a budget of Rs 15-20k do? Opt for CCA just because it is much more (2.4 times more) VFM than the other product and let go the additional value of 15?
One can similarly keep extending this to further costlier options and would realise that while the absolute value keeps increasing, the value/cost ratio keeps falling. That’s natural. A product that approaches value of 95 might cost above 2 lacs bringing the value/cost ratio down to an abysmal 0.5. Can that be a valid argument for someone with a budget of 2 lacs (like the OP) to go for CCA instead?
Some call it law of diminishing returns. I’d call it law of increasing cost of excellence. A student would have to study as much (additionally) to go from 80% to 95% marks as he’d have had to go from 50% to 80%. Getting every ounce of additional value from a product that’s already at high absolute value is always going to cost a lot lot more. And that’s why you have audio-video components with 7 digit, even 8 digit INR tags. Someone who buys a product worth 10 lacs clearly knows that he is spending the rest 9 lacs to get as much (additional) value as his first lac got for him. And he happily pays that. Why? A, because he has the budget. And B, because his VFM comparison is not linear, but logarithmic - as it should be.
Please don’t take this as my view on CCA per say. Since budgets are seldom absolute, it might even make sense for someone with budget of say 15k to go for it and save 10k to instead employ it to add some other product/accessory to his chain. But suggesting CCA to someone with a budget of say 2-3 lacs just because of its unbelievable value/cost ratio is being oblivious to the context.
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In general, I would agree with you.
But in the case of a streamer, without an in-built DAC, the best possible quality, is to simply provide the original signal, without any compression, to your DAC. Therefore, if you are playing / streaming a lossless file, it should be transported to the DAC, bit perfect.
Even a Rs 3K streamer like the Chromecast, does that. Which for the price, is pretty amazing.
When you move up to something like the Yamaha WXC-50 , what you get additionally, is built-in support for Airplay, Tidal, Deezer and other streaming services. The Yamaha costs Rs 30K.
Beyond that, I struggle to understand where the value comes from. So a Rs 2 lac streamer, can still only deliver the orginal file without compression.
Maybe from :
- the quality of the in-built DAC
- the ease of use and polish of the phone app to control the streamer
I guess its up to every person to decide for himself whether its worth it.
Could be even something as simple as wanting matched components so that they look nice together.
But in the case of a streamer, without an in-built DAC, the best possible quality, is to simply provide the original signal, without any compression, to your DAC. Therefore, if you are playing / streaming a lossless file, it should be transported to the DAC, bit perfect.
Even a Rs 3K streamer like the Chromecast, does that. Which for the price, is pretty amazing.
When you move up to something like the Yamaha WXC-50 , what you get additionally, is built-in support for Airplay, Tidal, Deezer and other streaming services. The Yamaha costs Rs 30K.
Beyond that, I struggle to understand where the value comes from. So a Rs 2 lac streamer, can still only deliver the orginal file without compression.
Maybe from :
- the quality of the in-built DAC
- the ease of use and polish of the phone app to control the streamer
I guess its up to every person to decide for himself whether its worth it.
Could be even something as simple as wanting matched components so that they look nice together.
I think it’s not always cost of components that matters but how it is programmed / implemented. You may have same components in two different product but may sound completely different. Secondly, it also depends on quality of downstream componentsThat lumin X1 still has ess sabre chips...and trust me that you can buy the dual chips that it flaunts for less than 100 usd. So the remaining cost is just insane
Just as with any thing else in life...the lumin X1 is priced to match a sound vs price bracket. And it has nothing to do with the cost of the components that went into the build of the X1 itself....and the same equation holds true for all high end gear. Manufacturers build it first, and then depending on the sound quality, decide in which price bracket to plonk it into. So the high end game is silly at most times if you ask me
How i wish it were that simple
. I too used to think in the same lines some time back. Bit-Perfect data is one thing, Timing (read JITTER) of the data reaching the DAC is another. I have experience with 2 products from the same brand - Auralic Mini and Auralic Aries Femto (still using that). The latter is undoubtedly better than the former with the inclusion of better clocks and a linear PSU. I used both in the same setup and the result in SQ was very evident. There was no going back to the Mini. Clock synchronization between the digital transport and DAC is also possible these days and will result in even more difference in SQ. I have not yet experienced that in my setup though.
If possible try different streamers in your own setup and see. As always, you can also google and explore more about these.
No. That's just not being in tune with reality. I used to come from the same camp as you but to understand what was the hulabaloo about streamers, coincidentally after the OP had messaged me, i decided to go down this particular rabbit hole and boy did i learn something. try it out sometime. You'll be scrambling to retract a lot of earlier opinions/comments. And you'll understand why some options cost even more than 10lakhs. It may not make sense to you but everyone's mileage will vary. What is undeniable is that bit perfect is not simply bit perfect. And before denying it, hear it.
It's akin to a statement that a friend recently made when i asked them to purchase a stereo that the only difference between his JBL flip 3 and my speakers was that mine could go louder. All this when He hadn't heard my speakers. It's an extreme example but more or less, the same principle applies.
The proof is in the pudding my friend.
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Thats where the misconception lies. Its not only abt the dac .
Spot on. It’s not 0 and 1 that flies on wire. There is no way. It’s still analog frequency. So some noise will still be there.
you are absolutely right.
I listen to tidal/spotify mainly. sometimes amazon music.
As tidal was having many songs in MQA without flac verson, i was leaning towards qobuz .
Finally got qobuz three weeks ago. ( which was another story).
it sounds very natural and no requirement of proprietory software/hardware requirement due to MQA (unlike Tidal with new revealed informations !!!!)
Here the new problem starts.
I have a denon network player which has almost everything but not qobuz.
So i was playing qobuz thru laptop via usb dac.
But there was no remote control functionality.
Then i installed Bubble Upnp
Bubble upnp was not giving SQ at par with native denon heos app while playing Tidal.
so i was not getting the returns of earlier struggle to get qobuz.
The audirvana studio installed for SQ and remote.
The app seems to be slow in responding. But the main problem was that remote control was not connecting .
I had sttopped the Mcafee firewall , also tried a few times uninstalling/ reinstall audirvana remote app.
Remote Not working -I may have to try with mcafee uninstalled.( if the firewall is the cause ).
Then i saw this information , immediately installed mconnect lite.
BINGO.
Mconnect lite worked much better than Bubble Upnp.
Not yet tried the paid version of mconnect.
Few observations was that the phone battery was draining a bit faster.( is the music passing thru phone or directly from web to denon?).
BTW I was able to stream 192 khz hires music also from qobuz. ( not sure if Denon downsamples to 48khz).
Thanks for the information anyway.
Enjoy the music.
cheers
Glad that you had a positive experience with mConnect. Basically, mConnect is a UPnP broker that handover the data stream from your Phone's internal DAC to Denon via UPnP protocol. So, the final sound quality also depends on which Phone you are using. It might drain your battery considering a lot of heavy lifting happening in the background. On a side note, Tidal also sounds pretty good with mConnect.
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Astell and Kern digital audio players (AK70 and up) have digital outputs (for external DACs if you choose) and using the free AK connect App (Android and iOS) they are wifi streamers and servers of music stored on board and on your network.
I started using my AK Kann as a streamer after my Bluesound node 2 suddenly died. I am using the internal DAC of the AK Kann (balanced out to XLR) and am very impressed with the performance.
I don’t know if it handles other services like Spotify, Qobuz, Gaana, or internet radio stations
I started using my AK Kann as a streamer after my Bluesound node 2 suddenly died. I am using the internal DAC of the AK Kann (balanced out to XLR) and am very impressed with the performance.
I don’t know if it handles other services like Spotify, Qobuz, Gaana, or internet radio stations
How does it comapre with the Bluesound Node 2 (? i ?)
Please note I was using the Mytek Liberty DAC and alternating with a PS Audio digital link 3 DAC with the Bluesound Node 2.
I hardly used the Bluesound node 2 built in DAC as the external DACs were better sounding (apparent immediately)
To compare with the above set up: the sound stage from AK Kann (through the built in DAC) is slightly more compressed, (less air between instruments) but still warm, not fatiguing. The weight and punchiness are more polite, restrained.
I am looking for a way to connect the digital out (micro usb) of the AK player to the uSB B socket on the Mytek liberty DAC. I am hopeful the excitement in the sound will be back with this arrangement.
I hardly used the Bluesound node 2 built in DAC as the external DACs were better sounding (apparent immediately)
To compare with the above set up: the sound stage from AK Kann (through the built in DAC) is slightly more compressed, (less air between instruments) but still warm, not fatiguing. The weight and punchiness are more polite, restrained.
I am looking for a way to connect the digital out (micro usb) of the AK player to the uSB B socket on the Mytek liberty DAC. I am hopeful the excitement in the sound will be back with this arrangement.
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