why this much of negative publicity about BOSE

[Thad E Ginathom]

Yep, if they suit they suit. Whatever their objective ranking by the better informed, there are auditoria where I am very happy to listen to Bose PA speakers: they are much better than what I hear in most other halls.

If I take a different view, to be fair to Bose they do not quite market themselves as an 'Audiophile' brand per say, they emphasize more on the Lifestyle factor. If you take them and their products in face value then why complain?
Misleading public is something that we object to sure as Thad pointed out, but in today's world I do not think there is a single 'brand' which do not make their fortune by misleading the consumer. Holy smokes, just turn on our TV and look at the ad campaigns they run!

Sadly, "lifestyle" is presented as the real thing, whereas it is usually just skin deep.

Indeed, many of the world's biggest and richest companies survive and thrive on marketing. Names I could mention ...well never mind. But hey, what's that software on the computer in front of you?

What I do not understand is that anybody who thinks about this situation actually considers it not only defensible, but just fine. It is the way of the world; it is inevitable; it is not going to change; but it is not just fine.

 

[manoj.p]

I know a lot of true music lovers who don't much care about audio systems, and many would love to have Bose if they could afford it.

And how many of those have arrived at that decision out of critical listening and not brand/marketing? I know many people wants Bose because they have heard its the best.

 

[asliarun]

Good marketing is not about following the consumer or even persuading/swaying the consumer. It is all about building a brand. In today's day and age, brands are far more important than products. Brands foster emotions, loyalty,trust, and in many ways, create an urban tribe around the brand.

And we are all tribals. Our most primal need is to belong to a tribe. And so we search of pursuits like HiFi, single malts, photography, cars, bikes, and such.

The answer is simple - most people belonging to the audiophile tribe do not relate to the Bose tribe, whatever it is. Perhaps the rich lifestyle oriented tribe that loves kanye west and Kim kardashian and bling. I don't know. That seems to be the perception though.

On a factual basis, Bose (and Beats audio and monster cable?) doesn't even bother publishing detaied specifications, nor does it encourage reviews, especially comparisons with competing products.

Detailed specifications may or may not be important to you depending on your audiophile philosophy, but as a brand, it goes completely contrary to the other high fidelity brands. This is basic level entry criteria to the high fidelity tribe. On top of this, we hear tales where these brands aggressively prosecute and sue reviewers who try to publish negative reviews. Again, not a good citizen of the tribe.

So I ask this question again. Why this infatuation with Bose? Why not talk about Sony whose new HiFi speakers with scan speak drivers sound spectacular? Or pioneer speakers? At least these brands are really trying. And they are going to audio shows and are trying to establish credibility. Unlike Bose.

 

[panditji]

Small correction on the single malt thing though - only those from one region are peat laden smoky. And there are some blends that are smoky too. But yes, single malt snobbery also flourishes.

My apologies for the factual error as I am not very particular of the whiskey I drink....but you do get my point...Also nice to know another Harbeth owner having a similar view on audiophoolery....

 

[panditji]

The point is that for the same money you can have better sound that is more truthful to the music. That is the problem with bose. A true music lover buys the most they can afford, nothing wrong with that. In the end IT IS about the music.

But that is a problem for the people who buy Bose and do not try and find out other brands..It is not Bose which is the problem... And maybe it is convenient for people to simply buy a commonly available product and get on with life rather than fuss about quality...most of the music is recorded in studios and yet the audiophiles try and create a live experience when it is not there...

Also it is the responsibility of product companies to get their products across to the end consumers and not the other way around....

 

[panditji]

Oh I agree. I don't have Bose anywhere except where the product made sense to me. But I don't need to prove audiophile cred by bashing Bose. Above all, I never criticise any Bose system that a friend has or may buy. Because I too have lots of things in other areas that can be done by other stuff costing a lot less.

Absolutely agree...

 

[panditji]

Good marketing is not about following the consumer or even persuading/swaying the consumer. It is all about building a brand. In today's day and age, brands are far more important than products. Brands foster emotions, loyalty,trust, and in many ways, create an urban tribe around the brand.

So I ask this question again. Why this infatuation with Bose? Why not talk about Sony whose new HiFi speakers with scan speak drivers sound spectacular? Or pioneer speakers? At least these brands are really trying. And they are going to audio shows and are trying to establish credibility. Unlike Bose.

Because Bose has already done the above needful and that is why people buy it even though they do not print their specs...No point in being critical, if people did'nt like it they wouldn't buy it...

 

[rsud]

You have to hate/look down upon Bose if you are a true audiophile...only then you get entry into the club...it's the same like the single malt drinkers look down upon blended scotch because it does not have the smell of burnt wood...

And you does not spend money on marketing? I think we all know the retail price of the Apple iPhones, Samsung Galaxy 5s , Motos and the Lumias and the production cost of each? Yet we buy these because of the effect of their huge marketing campaigns....
Why do people buy the Axe deodarants and not the cheap locally available ones - it's because Axe marketing campaign promises us that women will be easily attracted to us if we use Axe... Forgive this long post but since I am in advertising, I had to defend marketing...

Also what is the difference between a regular rich guy and an audiophile if they have te same system???

Disagree completely. Yes, there are plenty of folks in high end who are into it for the snobbery and understand nothing about the essence of producing good sound/music. They think expensive is better. Just like there are plenty of wine snobs or scotch snobs who understand nothing of a good wine or scotch but have to read a magazine or look at trends or for someone to tell them whats best.

But there are also plenty of folks who are into audio, wines, and scotches for the right reasons. These folks build their own backgrounds, create experiences of their own by listening and sampling variety and learn to understand the essence of what makes for good sound or good wine or scotch.

These folks who quest for truth in their hobby understand expensive is not always better and there are lots of bargain hifi that sounds good or bargain wines / scotches that exude the qualities that make for good wine or scotch.

So don't dismiss seeking the truth and not following the fads or the folks who truly seek good sound and build their background and experience on what good sound is by listening to live music, voice, and instruments.

The true audiophile listens to live music and voice and then evaluates the sound of a hifi by comparing what they hear in a live performance (unamplified is best) to what a hifi produces. Sound is all around you. Learning to listen and discriminate is where the true art and hobby is for a true audiophile.

This is the difference between the "rich guy" who buys what he's told as long as its expensive enough and the true audiophile who buys what he hears to be the best sounding.

 

[Sawyer]

Also nice to know another Harbeth owner having a similar view on audiophoolery....

I wouldn't use that term, to be honest.
All I know is that in my systems, each has its place, and I wouldn't use either interchangeably.
I agree that one can get the same sound quality for lesser money, but I wouldn't say that one needs to spend a lot more money than on Bose for good sound quality. Perhaps a subtle difference, that.
From personal experience though, I can say that Bose isn't all marketing. My pair has performed brilliantly in a difficult environment for over a decade now. And there is some application specific engineering inside. When I got them home, and test fired them inside, I thought I had made a mistake, they sounded mediocre. But once set up correctly outside, the sound quality transformation was immediately heard. That, and their longevity tells me that there is substance to them too. Not surprising then that the same model is still in the product line up.

 

[asliarun]

Because Bose has already done the above needful and that is why people buy it even though they do not print their specs...No point in being critical, if people did'nt like it they wouldn't buy it...

I respectfully disagree. Bose has not done the needful to establish credibility in the HiFi community. They don't participate in any audio shows, don't publish specs, and don't put themselves in a situation where people can easily do an a/b comparison. In fact, one would be hard pressed to find any decent and impartial reviews.

And if you say not to be critical of a product in this forum, I would again have to disagree. Isn't that the whole point of good forums like these? I am not dissing them or being biased, just pointing out some obvious things they do not do. Isn't that reasonable grounds to call them out on such behaviour?

I recently attended axpona where almost all big and small and many boutique manufacturers were there. Bose wasn't there at least to my knowledge. Oh, and neither was Beats audio.

 

[deba]

It will not be right to say that all products manufactured by Bose sounds crap......but yes their marketing policy seems to me more like Apple Inc.

You pay more to get less.........moreover portable audio systems cannot match true hifi no matter what you do...............

 

[idlefriend]

I think Life style models in Bose are very costly so..buying a Bose Acoustimass 10 or 15 series speakers with any AV receiver would be better.what do you think guys..??

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I would put the opening question the other way round: why so much defence of Bose on a hifi forum? There are just not in the hifi market.

 

[panditji]

Thad, what is the definition of hifi? And how does Bose gain entry into the hifi industry if they wanted to?

I am defending Bose because people simply put it down just like that...I also bought Bose 301s in 2002 when I started working because that was the only brand I knew and because Denon and Jamo which appeared in Delhi around 2000 were simply too expensive....I sold the 301s and instead bought Quad 11Ls as they were spoken about highly in audiophile forums and while they are good (I still have them since the last 8 years), they are not all rounders like the 301s..plus they could go loud as well ...

Another grouse people have against Bose is that they are expensive for what they do and there are other brands which can be bought cheaper at maybe the same or lesser cost...Nobody complains about the Sonus Fabers, Krells, Audio Research, Gryphon, MSB etc (I can go on and on) for their retail prices...So why complain against Bose?

In the end, it all boils down to the fact that if a person is willing to pay a price for something he/she wants and is happy about, who are we to judge the consumer or the brand?

 

[pradeepkamat]

I think Life style models in Bose are very costly so..buying a Bose Acoustimass 10 or 15 series speakers with any AV receiver would be better.what do you think guys..??

Yes certainly. I have listened both these with Yamah at bose store.
They are on my wish list for future. They are definitely Hifi grade ( May not fit into hifi grade of self proclaimed auduiophiles! or purist) and sound perfectly well. There are many gadgets that are being discussed on this forum. Just because the name of the forum says hifivision does not mean only hifi is discussed here & there is no reason why one should so furiously bash Bose and no other brand.

 

[Sawyer]

There are many gadgets that are being discussed on this forum. Just because the name of the forum says hifivision does not mean only hifi is discussed here & there is no reason why one should so furiously bash Bose and no other brand.

Fair point. Perhaps one reason for the Bose bashing on this particular thread is its name? Open just a Bose thread for people that want to discuss or know more about Bose, that should serve more useful purpose for interested folk, and the rest will hopefully stay away from the thread if ignored the first time.
In many ways, Apple, Bose and Sonos have a similar approach. None specifies spec except to the minimum extent they think is necessary for user assessment, they are more focused on the user experience for their market of interest, and charge premium prices for doing that well. These prices are validated by the fact that they are alive and thriving as companies for a long time now - and, no surprise, each has rabid haters. Sonos is the most recent entrant and at almost ten years it has been around for a long time in this market of streaming products which has seen a lot of deaths or quiet withdrawals.
Anyone who does not care for their value proposition doesn't buy their offerings.
It isn't as if they are the Fiats/Ambassadors that are succeeding because of an unfair lock on customer choice.

 

[asliarun]

Don't people come to this forum to understand what values proposition is for various HiFi components? If every mildly negative comment about any product will be reduced to "if you don't like it, don't buy it", what really is the purpose of visiting forums like these and spending hours?

Sure, there is a gentlemanly way of doing this, but even when pointing out basic facts, one gets labeled as trashing a product.

I actually find this hypersensitivity a bit strange.

As far as the original thread question goes, sorry to say, there is no " this much negative publicity about Bose". The reality is exactly the opposite. Most people consider Bose high end luxury HiFi. So it is mostly positive publicity.

But if you go to a car forum and talk about an overpriced status symbol racecar, most people will point you to 10 other options that would give you similar performance levels for a fraction the cost.

Now if that is trash talking, I don't know what to say.

For the record, I once heard old Bose speakers and they sounded very good.

And the question to the people with a contrary opinion is, if a good friend and music lover asked you to recommend speakers in a given budget, would you recommend Bose? Would Bose even be among your top 5 suggestions?

 

[Sawyer]

if a good friend and music lover asked you to recommend speakers in a given budget, would you recommend Bose? Would Bose even be among your top 5 suggestions?

If said friend was looking for external speakers, Bose would head the list. For indoors, whether Bose will be in the top 5 would depend on other things that he is also looking for, but regardless, Bose would not head the list. If said friend had already bought Bose, I would celebrate this with him over a drink and some music.

 

[karthick raja]

There is definitely not that much negative publicity in real world. I can only find this in this forum. Well, it certainly doesnt have value for money proposition because it is advertised as luxury Hifi brand and may be low VFM proposition is the only reason why purists and audiophiles bash this. Infact I would say BOSE is most popularly known brand than any other audiophile brand that we discuss here.

 

[bbr_shr]

If you are the kind who needs to close his eyes to enjoy music, you might not like Bose.

If you are the kind who can judge sound based on the the quality of your power socket, you might not like Bose.

Audiophiles=minority. For the rest of the world Bose just works fine. In the living room, bedroom, 2nd bedroom, 3rd bedroom if applicable, study room, balcony, computer room. Not sure about bathroom as violent bathing might cause a problem but who knows.