why this much of negative publicity about BOSE

[Sawyer]

There are lots of room-correction "solutions." One that I have seen used by a fellow member is the behringer box (something2496) and he is very happy with the result.

I'd love to have a room in which I could get into acoustic treatment. This is, I feel, the future. A once and for all treatment of a room which should sound good whatever equipment is used, for the foreseeable future. I don't understand why many "audiophiles" are against this, especially as they tend to like big price tags, and it is not cheap to do properly. It is not popular with the kind of audiophile that only spends on cables and electronics, but I think that it is more so with those who just want to listen to good music.

Of course, I understand that it is not a spending that can be hidden behind the rack, and that not all family members are happy to see funny extrusions and foam pieces hung all over the walls! :lol:

I think there is a limit to which acoustics can be treated by electronics. I surfaces reflect, then they reflect, and although light has its tricks like polarisation, aren't reflection-free speakers as impossible as a reflection-free torch? I also recall reading, when researching EQ, that attempting to fill up a null would, ultiamtely, blow up the amplifier: a null is still a nuil however much power you throw at it.

Some research done. Lakozy at Chowpatty, Mumbai sells it. US price is about USD 1000.
It can be used as a DAC cum preamp. One could feed it digital signals and it will put out volume controlled, room characteristics shaped analog output into a power amp.
From what I have read, I don't think it will fill up a null - it will work within whatever frequencies are being delivered to adapt them downwards to better suit the room, and do this at the bass end, up to 300hz if I remember what I read. Because it is the bass end that has the most room interaction in a manner to muddy the total sound delivered, if room acoustics are wrong. It is very difficult to control emitted LF energy via room treatment - ordinary thickness things won't be enough, the damn thing passes easily through most materials.
A smallish box, so very discreet. I too don't want my living room to look like it was designed by an eccentric interior decorator.
Too cutting edge to make a leap of faith decision.
Perhaps someone here wants to be that pioneer.
PS: We have gone wildly OT...sorry. Time for a new thread!

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I too don't want my living room to look like it was designed by an eccentric interior decorator.

Although I personally wouldn't mind, it really doesn't have to look lined with all those funny shapes. Panels can be made decorative, and corner base traps disappear into corners.

From my recent reading (sadly, not yet from experience)... why do you not need tens of feet thickness in a bass trap? Because you are not even trying to absorb all the sound.

If you are using a computer (even one of those phone-shaped pocket computers ) then you can do your EQ right there.

There! Saved you US$1,000 :lol:

(Unless you want it, of course, which is a different matter.)

ULTRACURVE PRO DEQ2496. The name puts some people off. Looks industrial, but hides away on a rack easily, wide but not high. Lots of functionality.

KRK Ergo Interesting smaller box, meant for monitor control/correction.

 

[Sawyer]

There! Saved you US$1,000 :lol:

(Unless you want it, of course, which is a different matter.)

ULTRACURVE PRO DEQ2496. The name puts some people off. Looks industrial, but hides away on a rack easily, wide but not high. Lots of functionality.

Not really, I am not a believer until I see it in the flesh and am convinced that it can do USD 1000 more magic than my tone controls can!
I saw the Behringer information - it seems more suited for multi amp and multi speaker mixing, not for a vanilla 2 channel audio set up, although I could be wrong - even though it is a lot cheaper than the DS thing.

 

[manoj.p]

The Home Audio market already started on the path of Room correction for some time. Although, I have to admit this is something that is lost on audiophiles. They tend to care more about cable changes or some other things. The Home theater crowd is more receptive to room corrections and treatments. Lots of people have gone the route of room treatments, either with professionals or diy. The room correction equipment is available right from Audyssey to Anthem Room Correction/Trinnov/DiracLive and others. The two channel/DIY crowd also has MiniDSP/Behringer DEQ/BFD products.

As for Behringer - I am using their BFD 1124 for equalizing my two subwoofers. Does a remarkable job, even better than the Trinnov room correction in my receiver. It could be due to the fact that Trinnov does not correct below 30 Hz. With BFD, I can apply filters till 18 Hz and below with some other tricks.

But I agree with the thought. Room has the biggest effect on the sound that you would hear out of speakers. To get the optimum sound out of the system, we should try to negate the room effect. I go with the approach placement, treatment and lastly eq correction.

 

[manoj.p]

Very interesting, the link. I need to research. Something like this, if it works, is one addition I am open to considering even now that my system has reached what I think is its final state.
From a quick read it would appear that this more advanced than any Bose offering. For one, it isn't tied down to a particular make of system. But, more research is needed.

One clarification between the antimode and Bose electronics. Antimode is tailored to individual room and listener. Most of the times, people use Antimode after doing some measurements. Bose on the other hand, does not have any room measurement or other inputs. It's got electronic filters in there already applied and everyone gets the same. That can be called "Colored" sound in simple terms. Nothing wrong in it, if people like it. But it can't apply to all. This is where many people don't like Bose.

Another thing to note is that Bose is very much against anyone measuring their speakers and publish the findings. Consumer Reports did that and had a libel lawsuit at their hands. So very much likely whether Bose will release a product that will do in room measurements and apply equalization filters.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Not really, I am not a believer until I see it in the flesh and am convinced that it can do USD 1000 more magic than my tone controls can!

Agreed. You're a lucky man to have tone controls. My hearing was better when I bought my amp.

I saw the Behringer information - it seems more suited for multi amp and multi speaker mixing, not for a vanilla 2 channel audio set up, although I could be wrong - even though it is a lot cheaper than the DS thing.

I think it is 2-channel, stereo only. The only one I've seen in the flesh was in a stereo music-playing setup.

Manoj.p, I am so bad at even thinking about HT. Thanks for the reminder. One can imagine how a market unwilling to buy tone controls would react to an "audiophile" amp with a whole lot of DSP tools built in.

I have to admit that I have reservations

My reservations are to do with AD and DA conversion. It is not something one wants to do more than once.

Another thing to note is that Bose is very much against anyone measuring their speakers and publish the findings. Consumer Reports did that and had a libel lawsuit at their hands.

I'd forgotten that. Oh dear, another tendency typical of an marketing-lead company. Right: that puts them off my list again, however interesting some of their products might be. No Bose, No Monster....

 

[manoj.p]

Manoj.p, I am so bad at even thinking about HT. Thanks for the reminder. One can imagine how a market unwilling to buy tone controls would react to an "audiophile" amp with a whole lot of DSP tools built in.

I have to admit that I have reservations

You know what's funny? The market which frowns upon "tone" controls are actually looking for tone controls in the cables. How many times have we heard "this cable makes system sound warm or more clear and bright". They want to use the tone controls, except without realizing it.

 

[Sawyer]

You know what's funny? The market which frowns upon "tone" controls are actually looking for tone controls in the cables. How many times have we heard "this cable makes system sound warm or more clear and bright". They want to use the tone controls, except without realizing it.

+1 to that, you got that one written down perfectly!
What is even funnier is that the same market looks down on tone controls in amps in the search for signal purity. And then promptly forgets all about that in installing expensive speaker cables with built in gizmos that yield a sonic signature. And gets committed to one sonic signature that may not be appropriate for every recording or music genre, or even change in room acoustics/speakers. Whereas using just good old adequate gauge copper cables with well implemented tone controls in the amp is a lot cheaper and much more flexible.

 

[Sawyer]

On the DSpeaker - there is a thread here, but not enough information.
See
http://www.hifivision.com/av-enhanc...ual-core-home-demo-experience.html#post596028

 

[Santy]

You know what's funny? The market which frowns upon "tone" controls are actually looking for tone controls in the cables. How many times have we heard "this cable makes system sound warm or more clear and bright". They want to use the tone controls, except without realizing it.

True. I have seen suggestions that if your speakers are bright, get xyz cable which tends to make it warmer. Or better change to a warmer amp that neutralizes the swing. Or try tweaks like placing crystal gems on the CD player to "extend the highs".

 

[Sawyer]

Or try tweaks like placing crystal gems on the CD player to "extend the highs".

Ahh..did you know the green magic marker treatment for CDs though?
The same people keep razor blades in small pyramids built to the same dimensional ratios as the Egyptian ones, to keep the edge sharp.
Enough of a market for snake oil sellers in every sphere, all over the world.

 

[manoj.p]

Have you heard of the product which releases electronic ion's or something in the air, aligns the air molecules properly so the airwaves come to your ears with all the purity and enhance the listening experience? That was the ultimate tweak.

 

[Sawyer]

Have you heard of the product which releases electronic ion's or something in the air, aligns the air molecules properly so the airwaves come to your ears with all the purity and enhance the listening experience? That was the ultimate tweak.

Yes. At the Munich show last year. People visiting the demo were served very expensive wine. Reports are that the wine was very good. If anybody thought the tweak worked, that was the influence of the wine, I am pretty certain. My system moves to a very different level after some.

 

[Soundstage]

You know what's funny? The market which frowns upon "tone" controls are actually looking for tone controls in the cables. How many times have we heard "this cable makes system sound warm or more clear and bright". They want to use the tone controls, except without realizing it.

How very true. Maybe amp manufacturers need to get more inventive in their marketing of tone controls....OFC tone knobs or cryogenically treated ones, for starters

 

[Sawyer]

Maybe amp manufacturers need to get more inventive in their marketing of tone controls....OFC tone knobs or cryogenically treated ones, for starters

Nice.
I won't be surprised if someone has done this already.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Ahh..did you know the green magic marker treatment for CDs though?

I did it. I don't mind trying stuff it is cheap/free and easy! There is a huge difference, in principle, between ideas like trying out the green marker pen you have anyway, and buying the audiophile marker pen for a thousand times its real value. I suppose that just using an ordinary marker pen might explain why I heard no difference.

Whereas using just good old adequate gauge copper cables with well implemented tone controls in the amp is a lot cheaper and much more flexible.

It's not geeky, it doesn't take a large investment of either time or money, it doesn't produce the same amount of ego/bragging rights.

I get my dose of geeky by manipulating a parametric equaliser. It's much geekier than wires and much more challenging than treble/bass knobs. In fact, it is so potentially challenging that I don't consider that I have achieved even one bragging-right token yet, although I could post a pretty screen shot! I often wish I had tone controls! hyeah:

 

[sravan1813]

I have used many Bose products though I haven't really owned any. I have always felt that Bose has slightly above average sound quality and their products have always been designed keeping aesthetics and our modern lifestyle in mind. Almost every Bose product I've listened to tries to make music sound Bass heavy by accentuating Midbass in the 100 to 400 hz region. They are also way overpriced in my opinion. Their speakers look small but need a heavy duty amplifier to sound good. This increases the price of the setup considerably.

 

[Danieljohn]

the amp was Cosmic LAB 3000 with

Philips DVD player, before that I had tried the 301 in various hi end systems

with 50K DAC, Opp0 93 source and 200W hi end Amp but it sucked

when the 36 old Yamaha was connected in place on Bose 301, to Cosmic

the difference was like cotton wool had been removed from the ears

even my 82 year old mother remarked on the improvement in sound with

the Yamaha, all else remaining same.


Hi Mr.Bose

My brother owns Bose 501 Speakers, I'm too a Big fan of their Acoustic Wave Guide Speakers, I just want to know which Cosmic LAB 3000 you Possess, is it stereomaster or MK II ?