Will 51% FDI in retail sector bring cheers to all classes of society?

[Hiten]

Rahul,
To change if one wants it, the first step is to accept that 'some' problem lies with us. After that we can take on other things. Then even double the number of scholar pretenders would not matter.
65 year is a long time to mend our ways, unite and defend our values. But no .....
so what gives ???
Regards

 

[kaushik]

(4) British were occupiers and also one of their primary reasons for being here was trade and commerce and they at least helped India grow in all areas - we got railways much before other countries. I haven't done any research but am sure we got telecommunications and other modern inventions earlier that other countries

fully in sync with every word..
british brought railways..india maintained and nothing happened...the red dabba[box]. with a 12inch by 12inch window was a marvel in 1947 not today ,

where the neighbors adopted awesome improvements our red dabba is still there in all major trains..most smell like hell have age old systems..specially cooling and engine
FYI :TRAIN IN MALAYSIA

Train in CHINA :

we are so sluggish in some areas

 

[avidyarthy]

I gather that there has been an eventful period of debating on this issue, and interactions carried out amongst the 'haves or near-haves' of our society, if I am not too mistaken. So, whats our take on the subject ...?

My take ....

Yes, to SINGLE BRAND retailers, be it on anything ... audio (to begin with), fruits, vegetables, grocery ... one type of products only ... with clear demarcation. The number of players would be more, so competition within that group would be intense with no chance of monopolizing on just about anything. That should ensure fair prices and quality service, in addition to ensuring workable margins to the supply base and also giving them the choice to change the buyers, if they find it necessary for better terms. It cannot and should'nt always be a buyers' market predominantly.

An absolute NO to MULTIBRAND retail. Its like handing over independence of our livelihood to the foreigners, yet again.

 

[sampath06]

Another interesting take on the subject
Big Ticket Reforms and Bigger Deceptions: Shankar Gopalakrishnan

 

[avidyarthy]

Mamata Banerjee has withdrawn support ....... all her ministers to resign (corrected .. on Friday). For a review of her decision, UPA has to abide by ....
1. Rollback on FDI in retail
2. Diesel price reduction by Rs.3
3. Subsidized LPG cylinders 12 nos. per annum

Hectic nightshift for all journos in Delhi tonight ...... hehe

 

[doors666]

Rahul,
To change if one wants it, the first step is to accept that 'some' problem lies with us. After that we can take on other things. Then even double the number of scholar pretenders would not matter.
65 year is a long time to mend our ways, unite and defend our values. But no .....
so what gives ???
Regards

Every country has issues. In US, kids carry guns to schools and shoot other kids, what are they doing about it, nothing. Are they planning to ban guns, no. There is still racial discrimination against blacks after more than 200 years since independance. There elections are becoming as much a fart as ours. China, well lets not go there, they would've hanged you and me for these posts. Doesnt make a country good or bad.

 

[gobble]

Rahul,
To change if one wants it, the first step is to accept that 'some' problem lies with us. After that we can take on other things. Then even double the number of scholar pretenders would not matter.
65 year is a long time to mend our ways, unite and defend our values. But no .....
so what gives ???
Regards

Hi Hiten
It doesnt become a "dodge the blame" game just because we discuss the context around which certain events occur and try to analyze or arrive at a better understanding of circumstances.

But I am curious to know from you - is there a problem that is centuries old that is manifest in its original form in oppressing certain sections of society? I agree that in the example you cited, the upper caste themselves should have taken the initiative to stop the practice as silly and stopped the ceremony. Perhaps people place too much value on status quo in the name of tradition. I dont have a diagnosis of what and why for that particular instance.

The danger I alluded to is the creation of an aggrieved mindset amongst certain sections of society that they need to extract their pound of flesh for some perceived wrong doings in the past that no longer affect them in the same way as before. Rather than empower them to look forward and give shape to a constructive outlook to achieving success and prosperity in emerging opportunities in a new economy, certain think tanks are deliberately intent on creating a sense of victim hood about the past of X Y Z communities and politicizing compulsions of demanding compensation for past wrongdoings in various ways.

--G0bble

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

One of the biggest myths is that foreign companies will improve the situation of the farmers and will establish improved infrastructure.

It is possible that they may invest in some refrigerated lorries and some cold-storage warehouse. It is possible that they will invest in a lot of them. To who's benefit? Theirs, of course! Nobody expects any of these companies to be charities, so why are people expecting them ...to be charities?

As to the suppliers, especially in agriculture, prices will be be forced down and down. There is a business methodology that I heard of at School (Woolworth was mentioned), which is to pay better prices until you are the supplier's only customer. Guess what you do when they don't have anybody else to sell to?

I'm sure that such techniques are not limited to USA and UK, etc. I'm sure there must be Indian businesses that are far from perfect in their dealings with suppliers. But FDI as saviour? Forget it. Besides: that's the government's job.

 

[thatguy]

The cynicism and hopelessness amongst the proponents of FDI is disturbing. I am all for foreigners coming and doing business here; the world is about give and take. However, only for the right reasons. Are we so bad that we can't even run stores and we need foreigners to help us out?

Some parallels have been drawn with 1991. What happened in 1991 wasn't just FDI. FDI was a small part. What Manmohan/Rao did was to remove restrictions on local entrepreneurs. The rupee became convertible (ask me, I had taken an IEEE student membership in 1989. To make a payment of $11, which was the fee for student membership, I had to make multiple rounds of banks and grovel at the feet of so many petty officials asking invasive questions). Quotas and licenses were made redundant.

Liberalization in aviation sector brought flying within the reach of the middle class. No foreign help needed.

We need more of that. Give the Indian entrepreneur some room to operate before giving up.

What really worries me about the Indian economy is how any forward movement is stalled by vested interests. Too many people have veto power. When one of the biggest business houses isn't able to find a place to open a factory (because one b*tch was having pe**ods), we are in trouble. Airports and metros take decades to build, steel plant never gets built (POSCO). In fact it is shame that the world's top man in steel is an Indian and he has no Indian presence.

When rabid Jihadis from Pakistan can attack our financial capital at will (and our response is to do nothing), the economy gets f***ed. Chidambaram went around with a file to all *foreign* countries asking for help. What did they do?

FDI in retail isn't even relevant. To me, it is an annoying digression from real issues facing us.

I guess it was GB Shaw who said, in a different context - "We have as much right to enjoy happiness without producing it as we have of enjoying wealth without producing it." A people who want to ride Honda cars while they make Indicas, who want Cyrus and Marantz but can only produce Norge are destined to perish sooner or later. There is no other option. My plea is, give yourself another chance; try a little harder before calling it quits.

/End of midnight ramble

 

[ajay124]

India's greatest writer in the english language is not a 'midnight's child'. He was born in Calcutta in 1956. The first two parts of his recently published 'Ibis Trilogy' are not only great literature, but also a fascinating account of the 'business' being conducted by the East India Company in India and China. Good literature is priceless. Because it gives a far better insight into the ways of the world than newspapers, television or history books.

Amitav Ghosh : Sea of Poppies

Amitav Ghosh : River of Smoke

For another account of colonialism, read Joseph Conrad's "Heart of Darkness". One of the great novels of the 20th century. Adapted into a turgid and boring film called 'Apocalypse Now' in the late 70's.

Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad. Search eText, Read Online, Study, Discuss.

 

[ranjeetrain]

(2) Please remember before the British, there was no such called INDIA - we had 1-2 big kingdoms and plenty of small ones organized by regions and languages - hence we need to be grateful to them to have created our country.

I wasn't keen on participating here, but I can't let this one go

That is a HORRIBLY misplaced statement. Mate, I strongly recommend you to learn about history of India.

Gupta empire: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b8/Gupta_Empire_320_-_600_ad.PNG

Pala empire: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/Pala_Empire_(Dharmapala).gif

Devpala empire: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Devapala.jpg

Because, prior to 15th century, public life was still disorganized and no concrete borders were drawn all over the world, the demographics of the world changed VERY FREQUENTLY. It was a direct function of the strength of the ruler of the place.

If India not having a concrete boundary prior to to British rule is a pretext, then most of world's countries will enter border disputes. UK itself has undergone tons of changes in its demographics before taking it current shape. So has rest of Europe, so has China, so has Japan.

I strongly recommend studying the subject before making another post on this and spreading further misinformation.

 

[doors666]

I dont know about the cold storage fundas, but the stuff from cold storage tastes like shit. try all those foreign apples costing 200 bucks and compare to a not so good looking fresh shimla apples, the difference is like night and day. Same with any out of season fruit or vege coming from cold storage.

I am surprised that there are people justifying british rule here. perhaps they would like to go back to that considering our current govts are bad and live the horrors again

 

[ranjeetrain]

Those are broken-in apples

 

[Asit]

OT:

The first documented evidence of an Indian empire that covered almost all of the current India, Pakistan and Bangladesh and actually a bit more (at least parts of Iran, Afghanistan, Nepal and Bhutan) was at the time of Emperor Ashoka (Mauryan dynasty) about 250 BC . Sri Lanka although not a part of the empire was considered what is known as a vassal state. Even before Ashoka, the Mauryan dynasty had a very vast Indian empire although nobody before Ashoka could conquer Kalinga.

A good book to read: "Ashoka" written by Charles Allen published by Little, Brown of London UK (available in Flipkart).

Regards.

 

[doors666]

OT:

The first documented evidence of an Indian empire that covered almost all of the current India, Pakistan and Bangladesh and actually a bit more (at least parts of Iran, Afghanistan, Nepal and Bhutan) was at the time of Emperor Ashoka (Mauryan dynasty) about 250 BC . Sri Lanka although not a part of the empire was considered what is known as a vassal state. Even before Ashoka, the Mauryan dynasty had a very vast Indian empire although nobody before Ashoka could conquer Kalinga.

A good book to read: "Ashoka" written by Charles Allen published by Little, Allen of London UK (available in Flipkart).

Regards.

And again a few hundred years later by samudra gupta. he convered the entire india, including south, reinstated the southern kings and was charging taxes. he also pretty much went till afghanistan.

 

[ranjeetrain]

Q: How do you make a large rope small, without cutting it?

A: Put a larger rope next to it.

Congress has been unable to suppress the agitation against corruption, inflation. It is unable to control the situation and restore normalcy. Rupee is down from ~43 to ~57 to USD. From 6.7 to 8.7 to CNY. Inflation is ~9%. There is nothing called law and order. Small countries around us that never dare tweet against us, are openly challenging our sovereignty and are going our interests in a shocking turn around from past trend.

Q: What could Congress do to come out of this.

A: Give an even bigger worry to Indians than they already have.


PS: As an individual I am an advocate of complete reform of retail sector. But 51% FDI is NOT the only way to go about it.

 

[arnprasad]

Thanks everyone for their responses to my posts..

I am not justifying the British rule - all I am saying is that if you look at the alternative of the British not being there and the Mughals ruling for 200 more years - we would have been in a much worse state. (this assuming that it was in our fate to be ruled by someone else)

A further weakened Mughal state (which it was already weakened during Bahadur Shah Zafar) would have meant hundreds of small states - which even post consolidation would mean - tens of small kingdoms and no one big country. I am from Hyderabad and I remember the Nizam letting his Razakars loose when asked to join India

And regarding the three maps - I agree we were bigger at different points of time - but that was 1500+ years ago.

Again - since we are enjoying a good time because other countries have opened their doors to us - its time we too do the same

 

[arnprasad]

I dont know about the cold storage fundas, but the stuff from cold storage tastes like shit. try all those foreign apples costing 200 bucks and compare to a not so good looking fresh shimla apples, the difference is like night and day. Same with any out of season fruit or vege coming from cold storage.

I am surprised that there are people justifying british rule here. perhaps they would like to go back to that considering our current govts are bad and live the horrors again

although its true - But also consider this:

1) I get to taste phoren apples 12 months a year - and not all apples taste bad - Fuji apples are good most times. - but point here is that we atleast have a choice - earlier we were getting apples only for a month or two

2) Other countries have concentrated on their apple production to ensure they get good output. What we done? still surviving on trees planted by missionaries and the British - which we only get 1-2 months a year

 

[arnprasad]

and finally - one of the points argued by our communist friends in particular is that these companies will come and take money out of India - which is true if they make profits.

What is the alternative? few select people are looting our country and keeping the proceeds at overseas tax havens anyways

So either which way - money is going out of India :clapping::clapping::clapping:

 

[gobble]

I dont know about the cold storage fundas, but the stuff from cold storage tastes like shit. try all those foreign apples costing 200 bucks and compare to a not so good looking fresh shimla apples, the difference is like night and day. Same with any out of season fruit or vege coming from cold storage.

I am surprised that there are people justifying british rule here. perhaps they would like to go back to that considering our current govts are bad and live the horrors again

Yep. I have stopeed buying almost everything that is frozen, except for the occassional green peas and fish. Even the milk from tetrapack tastes horrible in contrast to pouch milk. The curds from plastic cups give health issues compared to daily pouch fresh curds. The list is endless

Thanks everyone for their responses to my posts..

I am not justifying the British rule - all I am saying is you look at the alternative of the British not being there and the Mughals ruling for 200 more years - we would have been in a much worse state.

A weakened Mughal state (which it was already weakened during Bahadur Shah Zafar) would have meant hundreds of small states - which even post consolidation would mean - tens of small kingdoms and no one big country. I am from Hyderabad and I remember the Nizam letting his Razakars loose when asked to join India

And regarding the three maps - I agree we were bigger at different points of time - but that was 1500+ years ago.

Again - since we are enjoying a good time because other countries have opened their doors to us - its time we too do the same

Arnprasad,
Sorry if I sounded harsh in my tone. Your clarification has been graceful.

Like I said, The Marathas had a grip on power then and it is possible that large parts of India would have been united into a single state rather than fragment if the river of history had not changed its course that is.

One of the biggest myths is that foreign companies will improve the situation of the farmers and will establish improved infrastructure.

It is possible that they may invest in some refrigerated lorries and some cold-storage warehouse. It is possible that they will invest in a lot of them. To who's benefit? Theirs, of course! Nobody expects any of these companies to be charities, so why are people expecting them ...to be charities?

As to the suppliers, especially in agriculture, prices will be be forced down and down. There is a business methodology that I heard of at School (Woolworth was mentioned), which is to pay better prices until you are the supplier's only customer. Guess what you do when they don't have anybody else to sell to?

I'm sure that such techniques are not limited to USA and UK, etc. I'm sure there must be Indian businesses that are far from perfect in their dealings with suppliers. But FDI as saviour? Forget it. Besides: that's the government's job.

It never occurred to me that the game could turn out like this, possibly thats how it has played out in other countries? How about if there are multiple players and distribution channels in the scheme of things and the farmer has choice of selling to either depending on price?

India's greatest writer in the english language is not a 'midnight's child'. He was born in Calcutta in 1956. The first two parts of his recently published 'Ibis Trilogy' are not only great literature, but also a fascinating account of the 'business' being conducted by the East India Company in India and China. Good literature is priceless. Because it gives a far better insight into the ways of the world than newspapers, television or history books.

Amitav Ghosh : Sea of Poppies

Amitav Ghosh : River of Smoke

For another account of colonialism, read Joseph Conrad's "Heart of Darkness". One of the great novels of the 20th century. Adapted into a turgid and boring film called 'Apocalypse Now' in the late 70's.

Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad. Search eText, Read Online, Study, Discuss.

I have read Heart of Darkness. In fact Conrad was my favorite for some time. But its more about literature and its allied pleasures than the study of history as a source of many an interesting muse or hobby. But I recall the images that the novel painted in my mind were so vivid and it created such an unforgettable impression that many many years later when one day I grabbed by bike keys and rushed past the living room in a trot, I noticed from the corner of my eye a movie scene on TV with a Steam Boat chugging down a river and in a flash I knew it was a picturisation of the book! No dialogues, and no actor from the cast was visible up close in that scene... nothing, the movie had just captured the silent thoughts of the narrator as he viewd the trees float by on both the banks of the river as described in the novel so accurately that it took me less than a split second to recognize it!! And I never even knew it had been picture-ised until then!!

Will check out Amitav's books someday. Thanks.

Back to FD, yes I am in support of it. Let us see how it plays out in India. I am dissapointed how the BJP as the main opposition party is trashing it on the sentiments and insecurities of the traders rather than have an intellectual discussin of the merits and de-merits.

--G