iaudio
Well-Known Member
Or maybe the fuller midrange has brought forward more detail in vocals with the tube buffer...
Topping TP20 tripath 2020 amplifier (versus NAD C320BEE)
- Thread starter psychotropic
- Start date
maniac_2004
Member
Hi Ajinkya,
its a YAQIN CD2-6J1 tube buffer . Sounds which were in the background seem to come forward . Highs seem to be better rounded off and instruments like the organ seem to go to their "natural" sound. Guitar solos are more clear (I can hear individual notes .. instead of a flurry of notes packed together)
However where it falls short is the control of the topping and the bass sections . So rock seems to lack the "punch" .
I was expecting both(control and tube sound) .
Regards
maniac_2004
Member
its a Yaqin cd2-6j1 tube buffer .Was thinking of arjen upgrade .. but it requires some assembly skills
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That's the thing about most tube equipment. You can spend $$$$ but the bass control may be loose and flabby and lack the Slam! Which is why never go by reviews esp with tubes.
-G
Anybody ?
In my experience it is also about synergy. With the right pairing tube equipment can produce tuneful and tight bass while still not compromising on lush mid range.
maniac_2004
Member
Hi Vortex .. is there some information on how to get this accurate pairing ? wht about tube changes ?
maniac_2004
Member
PM psychotropic .. maybe he might help ..
Sound signature happens to be personal. In my case when I got the Behringer Ultracurve into the mix, everything fell into place. So one solid state at the source level seems to work for me. But there will not be universal agreement on this subject. So, I guess one just has to try and find out.
I think if you want to make an informed and intelligent decision without being able to audition anything, you will have to understand things like impedance Zout/Zin and how it influences damping factor, specific to the device in the chain. This will involve having looked at many tube circuit designs and understood their weaknesses and strengths over the years. Of course you will have to rely on other peoples insight into the circuit design of gear they have investigated, on various forums on the net, coz you cant know it all or have access all kinds of gear. Otherwise you should just try and listen and see if it fits well into your setup.
So its a tough job to predict, only a hobbyist electronics audio diy'er can really make an informed guess provided he is regular on forums.
Cheers
keith_correa
Well-Known Member
Informed guess is right! "Guess" being the key word here. Bottom line - trust your ears. Baaki sab bakwaas
psychotropic
Well-Known Member
hey sachin, i just saw your post. I don't think using the Topping with 4 ohm speakers makes sense. They don't have the current to do justice to them. Try it and see anyways.
ajinkya
Active Member
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- Oct 27, 2007
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Posting here rather than starting a new thread since the topic is about upgrades to the Topping amp. The story so far...
After reading psychotropic's excellent review of this amp, I persuaded my friend to buy it for his desktop system, along with CA s30 speakers. The pairing is very nice to both our ears so far. I've posted initial impressions of the Topping TP20 here...summarising- it's all that psychotropic said it was, although it will struggle with low-sensitivity speakers. And the low wattage manifests itself in the feeling that the amp is not really gripping the speakers, resulting in a sound that is slightly less full-bodied than with a traditional integrated. But other than that, the amp is sublime to listen to, even without considering its low price.
So where is the problem then? No problem, more of a tweak actually. With certain songs, specially in the mid to treble region, the sound is more 'splashy' than articulate. Part of this may have to do with the s30 themselves being dry speakers. In any case, my friend asked my advice on how he could 'smoothen' or clarify the sound in that range a bit more, without replacing the Topping or speakers.
Given that he is using an old creative SB 16-bit usb dac to feed the Topping, I know this is where the weak link is. So, I'm trying to convince him to upgrade the DAC to a better one. However, this tube buffer also caught my friend's eye and he wanted to know whether the 'tube' would be a better upgrade than the DAC.
Class A Valve Buffer Amp Amplifier 6N11 6DJ8 6922 ECC88 - eBay (item 250673641478 end time Aug-27-10 00:02:16 PDT)
I think the DAC should be the first one to be upgraded, and then maybe add the tube buffer if the sound is still not warm enough. But I wanted forum member feedback for views, before I convince him one way or another. Yes, this is a strictly budget setup, like most student and beginner setups. I'm trying to part my friend and his money in small baby steps
I've read another post here of introducing a tube buffer (Yaqin) before the Topping, but the poster did not seem to be completely satisfied with the result. I am wondering if the Indeed hi-fi buffer, being cheaper than the Yaqin, will have even less effect to create a warmer sound than the Yaqin did.
So, the question is: which should be the first upgrade to smoothen and clean up the sound in the lower treble range? DAC or tube buffer?
Thanks for all the help.
After reading psychotropic's excellent review of this amp, I persuaded my friend to buy it for his desktop system, along with CA s30 speakers. The pairing is very nice to both our ears so far. I've posted initial impressions of the Topping TP20 here...summarising- it's all that psychotropic said it was, although it will struggle with low-sensitivity speakers. And the low wattage manifests itself in the feeling that the amp is not really gripping the speakers, resulting in a sound that is slightly less full-bodied than with a traditional integrated. But other than that, the amp is sublime to listen to, even without considering its low price.
So where is the problem then? No problem, more of a tweak actually. With certain songs, specially in the mid to treble region, the sound is more 'splashy' than articulate. Part of this may have to do with the s30 themselves being dry speakers. In any case, my friend asked my advice on how he could 'smoothen' or clarify the sound in that range a bit more, without replacing the Topping or speakers.
Given that he is using an old creative SB 16-bit usb dac to feed the Topping, I know this is where the weak link is. So, I'm trying to convince him to upgrade the DAC to a better one. However, this tube buffer also caught my friend's eye and he wanted to know whether the 'tube' would be a better upgrade than the DAC.
Class A Valve Buffer Amp Amplifier 6N11 6DJ8 6922 ECC88 - eBay (item 250673641478 end time Aug-27-10 00:02:16 PDT)
I think the DAC should be the first one to be upgraded, and then maybe add the tube buffer if the sound is still not warm enough. But I wanted forum member feedback for views, before I convince him one way or another. Yes, this is a strictly budget setup, like most student and beginner setups. I'm trying to part my friend and his money in small baby steps
I've read another post here of introducing a tube buffer (Yaqin) before the Topping, but the poster did not seem to be completely satisfied with the result. I am wondering if the Indeed hi-fi buffer, being cheaper than the Yaqin, will have even less effect to create a warmer sound than the Yaqin did.
So, the question is: which should be the first upgrade to smoothen and clean up the sound in the lower treble range? DAC or tube buffer?
Thanks for all the help.
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rikhav
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- Mar 27, 2008
- Messages
- 2,668
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Hi Ajinkya
Best bet would be to loan a DAC from someone, and try out for a day or two in his system
Without sounding like an audiophile which I am really not one further he can try different cables which may help to smoothen the sound. Maybe a different speaker cable in the affordable price range. BUt this after the DAC
Best bet would be to loan a DAC from someone, and try out for a day or two in his system
Without sounding like an audiophile which I am really not one further he can try different cables which may help to smoothen the sound. Maybe a different speaker cable in the affordable price range. BUt this after the DAC
keith_correa
Well-Known Member
Why not consider a tube DAC?
iaudio
Well-Known Member
My vote goes for a DAC.
Like Keith said, a tube dac like Maverick D1 which has different output options could be an option.
Like Keith said, a tube dac like Maverick D1 which has different output options could be an option.
psychotropic
Well-Known Member
I don't think that's even a question. The DAC has to change. There are many good options including the Musiland DAC. But putting a tube buffer in front of a DAC that is already unable to extract the last bit of detail will result in a sea of mud. Bad idea!
avidyarthy
Well-Known Member
hehe ... seems I have gotten convinced too after reading thru all the posts....
1. Where to buy from ...prefer credit card route ...
2. Which seller in particular ...
3. T-20 has 2020 chip while T-40 has 2024 ... any difference ... consider, I am a noob .... T-40 is with 220 V AC .. so, no need for the adaptor stuff. Has a toroidal transformer too. You suggest, or your impressions on that.
4. Unfortunately, am considering this set-up for my living room .... thats quite big in L shape .... total area would be 300 sq ft .... JUST FOR MUSIC ... low background stuff only, no loud crash bang stuff.
5. As per your suggestions, the speakers have to be of high sensitivity ... upwards of 90 dB .... any full rangers you have in mind ... size is important ... maybe, BS size.
1. Where to buy from ...prefer credit card route ...
2. Which seller in particular ...
3. T-20 has 2020 chip while T-40 has 2024 ... any difference ... consider, I am a noob .... T-40 is with 220 V AC .. so, no need for the adaptor stuff. Has a toroidal transformer too. You suggest, or your impressions on that.
4. Unfortunately, am considering this set-up for my living room .... thats quite big in L shape .... total area would be 300 sq ft .... JUST FOR MUSIC ... low background stuff only, no loud crash bang stuff.
5. As per your suggestions, the speakers have to be of high sensitivity ... upwards of 90 dB .... any full rangers you have in mind ... size is important ... maybe, BS size.
maniac_2004
Member
Hi Ajinkya,
i think its better to go for a yaqin(if ur going for it) .. as a similar build amp(bravo v2) seems to have some interference issues. Price wise there is not much difference btw yaqin and indeed .. (20$)
http://www.hifivision.com/amplifiers/10669-question-budget-tube-amps.html#post148345
Regards
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psychotropic
Well-Known Member
1. Where to buy from ...prefer credit card route ...
ebay!
2. Which seller in particular ...
i used indeed hi fi labs, any seller with a good reputation is fine. make sure you buy with a power supply
3. T-20 has 2020 chip while T-40 has 2024 ... any difference ... consider, I am a noob .... T-40 is with 220 V AC .. so, no need for the adaptor stuff. Has a toroidal transformer too. You suggest, or your impressions on that.
i have not heard this, but yes it looks nice with a built in linear power supply using a toroidal transformer, it should provide it with more current(?), and should be able to drive low-impedance speakers better. But the 2020 chip is supposed to be sonically superior to the 2024 chip, so that's worth keeping in mind. This one might be worth getting if you're thinking of getting a relatively more difficult speaker. the TP20 also comes with 220v PSUs
4. Unfortunately, am considering this set-up for my living room .... thats quite big in L shape .... total area would be 300 sq ft .... JUST FOR MUSIC ... low background stuff only, no loud crash bang stuff.
again, i have heard the Topping TP20 drive Usher Be718 (notoriously difficult speakers) in a large 200-250 s ft. living room to very satisfactory listening levels. Yes it lacks the grip in the lower end with the Be718, but the Be718 is NOT designed to be used with low-power amps. It was still a very nice sound that it produced. And if you don't want much loudness, and if you pick your speaker with care, it'll be perfect.
5. As per your suggestions, the speakers have to be of high sensitivity ... upwards of 90 dB .... any full rangers you have in mind ... size is important ... maybe, BS size.
sensitivity is important, but also look at the impedance load and impedance behaviour of the speakers. The Usher S520 ( 86 dB) worked beautifully with it because it presents a constant impedance load above 6 ohms, so it's great. Don't pair them with speakers whose impedance drops to the region of 4 ohms and thereabouts. With full-rangers like the Lyrita Harmony Ones, the Topping was superb. But even with my Odyssey Epiphony (86 dB) it works beautifully well. So you don't NEED full-rangers.
ebay!
2. Which seller in particular ...
i used indeed hi fi labs, any seller with a good reputation is fine. make sure you buy with a power supply
3. T-20 has 2020 chip while T-40 has 2024 ... any difference ... consider, I am a noob .... T-40 is with 220 V AC .. so, no need for the adaptor stuff. Has a toroidal transformer too. You suggest, or your impressions on that.
i have not heard this, but yes it looks nice with a built in linear power supply using a toroidal transformer, it should provide it with more current(?), and should be able to drive low-impedance speakers better. But the 2020 chip is supposed to be sonically superior to the 2024 chip, so that's worth keeping in mind. This one might be worth getting if you're thinking of getting a relatively more difficult speaker. the TP20 also comes with 220v PSUs
4. Unfortunately, am considering this set-up for my living room .... thats quite big in L shape .... total area would be 300 sq ft .... JUST FOR MUSIC ... low background stuff only, no loud crash bang stuff.
again, i have heard the Topping TP20 drive Usher Be718 (notoriously difficult speakers) in a large 200-250 s ft. living room to very satisfactory listening levels. Yes it lacks the grip in the lower end with the Be718, but the Be718 is NOT designed to be used with low-power amps. It was still a very nice sound that it produced. And if you don't want much loudness, and if you pick your speaker with care, it'll be perfect.
5. As per your suggestions, the speakers have to be of high sensitivity ... upwards of 90 dB .... any full rangers you have in mind ... size is important ... maybe, BS size.
sensitivity is important, but also look at the impedance load and impedance behaviour of the speakers. The Usher S520 ( 86 dB) worked beautifully with it because it presents a constant impedance load above 6 ohms, so it's great. Don't pair them with speakers whose impedance drops to the region of 4 ohms and thereabouts. With full-rangers like the Lyrita Harmony Ones, the Topping was superb. But even with my Odyssey Epiphony (86 dB) it works beautifully well. So you don't NEED full-rangers.
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