Topping TP20 tripath 2020 amplifier (versus NAD C320BEE)

Audiolab - Home Audio for the Connoisseur
ajinkya said:
iaudio,
I think the topping has its power limitations, which are quite apparent in extended listening sessions. I'll post a detailed review in a while but just responding to the discussion on power:

I've listened to the TP20 with CA s30 speakers at a friend's desktop PC based setup. Earlier, he used to have a vintage Pioneer SX-650 ( an entry level model for that series) driving the s30s (90 db sensitivity). The Topping plays reasonably loud and has a good sound for 4K. However, compared to the 650 (35 watts), it clearly lacked the grip that the Pioneer had on the speakers. It was as if the tp20 sent music to the speakers and allowed them to do what they wanted. The SX caught hold of the speakers and literally orchestrated the sound. For want of a better description, it was like riding a horse gingerly, lightly holding on to the reins (topping) vrs. catching hold of its flowing mane and riding it steadily and with authority (sx-650). The topping sounds decent for the price but I am convinced that it will struggle with demanding speakers. The body, heft, and slam of the pioneer was just not there with the topping, even though the bass was more detailed. I would describe the topping as being 'leaner' overall in sound, the sx being more full-bodied.

So, in conclusion, the topping is excellent value for a desktop system or a very small bedroom system. However, it is not the best choice for floorstanders, large rooms or even as the amp for your main system. At the end of the day, 7 watts is 7 watts. :-)
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Hi,

You have a good grip at using right words for the right thing, impressed!

Cheers!
 
psychotropic said:
Of course if you want to be irrational and buy my speakers without listening to all these, who am i to object? ;) (i can wholeheartedly recommend the combination though).
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Thanks psycho for your comments. I was also irrational when I bought tp20 based on your experience. Now I see that its a great choice. Since you are quite satisfied with the combination of tp20 and your usher, I don't think I can go wrong. Besides, my goal is to accumulate fund in a few years time to get a powerful NAD and NAD goes very well with usher.

Only thing that is holding me back is the excellent experience of noa1 owners who are using them with NAD amp. Also, our fellow member gobble has very good impression about them. The speakers can be easily fitted to the wall to save space in my small drawing room. Yes, I will have to decide first.
 
@ajinkya - i completely agree with you about the 'grip' when it comes to speakers that present a heavy load to the amp (like the mini dancers that i heard them with). With such speakers you can really make out that '7 watts is just 7 watts.' I

but with speakers that present a more benign load to the amp, i don't find it lacking in grip at all. For eg. with my Ushers, it had every bit of control and grip that the far heftier NAD C320BEE (which is conservatively rated at 50w per channel, has a torroidal transformer etc.,) exhibited. I am a bit surprised that it demonstrated this with a set of speakers rated at 90dB sensitivity though. But I guess sensitivity isn't all there is to it and perhaps the impedance that it presents to the amp is not very high, and then the little topping (with whatever current its PSU can send it) can only do so much.

Essentially in terms of power, with speakers, and in a setup where a few watts can do wonders, this amp will work great. If your speakers work well with an SET amp, it'll work well with this....and so on

@sups - even i've heard a lot of good things about the noa1s and would love to hear the results of your audition. all the best!
 
psychotropic said:
I am a bit surprised that it demonstrated this with a set of speakers rated at 90dB sensitivity though. But I guess sensitivity isn't all there is to it and perhaps the impedance that it presents to the amp is not very high, and then the little topping (with whatever current its PSU can send it) can only do so much.

Essentially in terms of power, with speakers, and in a setup where a few watts can do wonders, this amp will work great. If your speakers work well with an SET amp, it'll work well with this....and so on
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pyschotropic,

The CA s30 spec. sheet says the nominal impedance is 4-8 ohms. With this wide range, I think that the load to the Topping will be demanding, in spite of the 90db sensitivity. This may be the cause of the lack of grip.
Srikarkav had a negative experience with the 9.2s, where one channel would drop volume. I wonder if anyone has tried the topping with the 9.1s. The tonal characteristics of the two may make a very good combination. I agree with you on your final observation - if a speaker works well in a low-watt setting, it has a good chance of sounding good with the Topping.
 
ajinkya said:
pyschotropic,

The CA s30 spec. sheet says the nominal impedance is 4-8 ohms. With this wide range, I think that the load to the Topping will be demanding, in spite of the 90db sensitivity. This may be the cause of the lack of grip.
Srikarkav had a negative experience with the 9.2s, where one channel would drop volume. I wonder if anyone has tried the topping with the 9.1s. The tonal characteristics of the two may make a very good combination. I agree with you on your final observation - if a speaker works well in a low-watt setting, it has a good chance of sounding good with the Topping.
Click to expand...

I think the impedance may matter more than sensitivity here. You may be right.

Regards
 
that would make sense. The Ushers in spite of their lower sensitivity have a measured impedance that almost never dips below 6 ohms (john atkinson's measurements in stereophile), and therefore presents a relatively easy load for the amplifier to drive, which may explain why it works well with the Topping.

gobble said:
I think the impedance may matter more than sensitivity here. You may be right.

Regards
Click to expand...
 
psychotropic said:
that would make sense. The Ushers in spite of their lower sensitivity have a measured impedance that almost never dips below 6 ohms (john atkinson's measurements in stereophile), and therefore presents a relatively easy load for the amplifier to drive, which may explain why it works well with the Topping.
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That doesn't leave for a wealth of choice at the cheap-but-great end of the speaker market... the tannoy mercury custom f1s are 8 ohms, 87 db, and stated to work with amps as low as 10 Watts.

The TP20 didn't do well on my Q Acoustics 2010 trial (4-6 ohm impedance, remember)

As for the Wharfedale 9.1, i'm not a huge fan anyway, since the sounds seems a little coloured to me in general. I'm not making any friends with this, am i?

That does it, then?
 
Has anyone tried the TP20 with a wideband single driver speaker? They're also normally more efficient than multi-driver speakers.
 
There are no ifs and buts about it. Steady impedence figures are what made my 3.5 watt tube amp work very well with my 87 db sensitivity EPOS M12.2 speakers.

I am convinced that sensitivity is not one of the more important attributes to focus on. I guess not sensitivity alone - is the key phrase.
 
1. I thought that all [almost?] speakers would present a different impedence at different frequencies.

2. If the above were true and if the impedance for the CA-S30 is 4-8 ohms then it would be a good thing for an 8 ohm speaker because low impedance=high power and high impedance=low power - right?

The CA s30 spec. sheet says the nominal impedance is 4-8 ohms. With this wide range, I think that the load to the Topping will be demanding, in spite of the 90db sensitivity. This may be the cause of the lack of grip.
Click to expand...
If # 2 is correct then this would be good rather than bad

The Ushers in spite of their lower sensitivity have a measured impedance that almost never dips below 6 ohms (john atkinson's measurements in stereophile), and therefore presents a relatively easy load for the amplifier to drive, which may explain why it works well with the Topping
Click to expand...
The published impedance for the S-520 is 8 ohms and stereophile is saying that the measured impedance remains ABOVE 6 ohms. So I'm assuming here that it would vary from 6-8 ohms. So are we deducing that varying impedance of 6-8 ohms is better than varying impedance of 4-8 ohms?

Steady impedance figures are what made my 3.5 watt tube amp work very well with my 87 db sensitivity EPOS M12.2 speakers.
Click to expand...
Do we have numbers to define "steady" for the Epos?
 
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i know very little about this stuff, but here goes:

1. Yes, as far as I know all speakers present a different impedance at different frequencies. When the impedance drops, the amount of current needed to reproduce that particular frequency accurately increases substantially and the amplifier will therefore have more of a task 'driving' the speaker.

2. low impedance means more power, but it also means the current-draw is substantially higher, so when the impedance dips to 4 Ohms the amp has a tough time driving the speakers, whereas if the speakers present a load of at least 6 ohms, the amps will find it easier to drive the speakers.

Let me put forward a conjecture. (I do know that 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing', so if I am stating something utterly foolish or utterly common knowledge, I beg forgiveness in advance). Can the correlations be split up into:

Category 1: Power - Sensitivity - Loudness
Category 2: Current - Impedance - Grip

By which I mean ceteris paribus, the greater the power and/or the greater the sensitivity the greater the loudness. And ceteris paribus the greater the current available and/or the greater the impedance, the greater the level of 'grip' .

this would also means that ceteris paribus lower impedance = greater loudness but poorer grip, and higher impedance = less loudness but better grip. This would also mean that ceteris paribus higher impedance = lower sensitivity.

This would perfectly explain why my Ushers work well with the Toppings, because they are low sensitivity but high (and relatively constant) impedance. So while it doesn't go hugely loud, it goes more than loud enough in a small room, and there's no shortage of grip.

Does this make any sense? or am i totally mixing up my concepts?


keith_correa said:
1. I thought that all [almost?] speakers would present a different impedence at different frequencies.

2. If the above were true and if the impedance for the CA-S30 is 4-8 ohms then it would be a good thing for an 8 ohm speaker because because low impedance=high power and high impedance=low power - right?


If # 2 is correct then this would be good rather than bad


The published impedance for the S-520 is 8 ohms and stereophile is saying that the measured impedance remains ABOVE 6 ohms. So I'm assuming here that it would vary from 6-8 ohms. So are we deducing that varying impedance of 6-8 ohms is better than varying impedance of 4-8 ohms?


Do we have numbers to define "steady" for the Epos?
Click to expand...
 
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Say that again please? :lol:

OK - so in a nutshell, lower impedance speakers need higher powered amps to drive them optimally. Gottit!
 
keith_correa said:
1. I thought that all [almost?] speakers would present a different impedence at different frequencies.

2. If the above were true and if the impedance for the CA-S30 is 4-8 ohms then it would be a good thing for an 8 ohm speaker because low impedance=high power and high impedance=low power - right?


If # 2 is correct then this would be good rather than bad


The published impedance for the S-520 is 8 ohms and stereophile is saying that the measured impedance remains ABOVE 6 ohms. So I'm assuming here that it would vary from 6-8 ohms. So are we deducing that varying impedance of 6-8 ohms is better than varying impedance of 4-8 ohms?


Do we have numbers to define "steady" for the Epos?
Click to expand...

A long time back I was clued up on reviews of my M12.2's Keith. Too lazy to google them up now :).

And yes I would surmise that a 6-8 ohm variance is far better than a 4-8 ohm variance. The lower the speakers' impedance the harder it is for the amplifier to drive the speakers.

The M12.2's specs list 8 ohms as the 'nominal' impedance. And when you look at all the specifications of any speakers, the word 'nominal' should always strike you. :)

One more reason I strongly believe in that blurb about lies, damn lies and statistics :)
 
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