A lack of common sense/civic basics

[corElement]

An article regarding a decaying calcutta relit a spark in me that I put aside as no hope situation long ago.

I left calcutta around 2001 around the same time when a large amount of renovation was taking place in the city and moved to Gurgaon. Gurgaon relatively developed only in the last 6-7 years however something I find disturbing across india from north to south to east to west. No matter how old or new... everyones going with "progress" and out with the old and in with the new.. fine.. nothing wrong with that. But why is there such a horrible lack of common sense when it comes to basic civic planning in modern day indian cities. When they were originally built their planning was far superior yet today, Deliberately people destroy or modify some of those basics to make for a type of "makeshift" solution that suits everyone.

A perfect example is footpaths. If anyone sees pictures of even say 30 years ago cities had proper footpaths, today, neither do these footpaths exist but the little bit that remains people can hardly walk on them without stepping on someones chewed ghutka or a broken pipe or some kind of bullshit makeshift thing. Delhi has no system for drainage, people in calcutta dont give a shit about heritage inheritance, noida's so called "pruning" of trees as good as "killing" the trees. EVERY CITY has billions of electrical wires over their heads.
Hell, I've even seen GRANITE used as footpaths that have already broken in from mass footfalls... why even use granite as a footpath.. In gurgaon they made this huge freaking ugly and stupid roundabout spending like 3 crores which was supposed to be "gurgaon's shining star or some bullshit" and had cows and people sleeping all over it, 2 years later broken down for the metro, hell the city dosnt even have a transportation system and it has the audacity to call itself a city.

Illegal constructions everywhere. In mumbai or calcutta one cant keep the windows in a car rolled down because of pollution. In bangalore I see people chopping down old trees without a second thought "hey it rains, it'll grow again" *rolls eyes*

I may be under 25 but I most certainly am not spoilt to bring any of these up without valid merit. Is this era of "jugar" and "destruction of heritage designs" ever going to stop? If I grew up living beside a slum and faced hardships to help myself and my family with an unemployed father to strive to reach a certain standard of basic proactive efficient culture why can't others? I refuse to believe indians dont have the intelligence. Then why does noone give a shit? Why is the govt so corrupt and why is there such little introspective caring for the true long term progress of the nation and not a makeshift..

A city like gurgaon dosnt even have power for 12 hours a day, you cant even build a house without giving a 10x7 area for a massive generator which you have to feed fuel.

China may have its own set of issues but atleast they're planning has far far surpassed anything india has. For xyz amount of pollution they may be causing, their efficiency rate to that pollution would probably not even be comparable to india's. I see all my friends leaving the country saying this place is hopeless and going to the "US" and "UK" and other countries is like their crowning glory. True they may be young but why should this backdoor exist in the first place. Our first priority in our lives is to our family till they decide to leave us. Our land hasn't abandoned us, why are we? Please, I request everyone on this forum from every age and corner of the country to try to better themselves proactively to make a difference and inspire others to bring about change from the micro level and not rely on some larger group. Or amass as much wealth at the cost of nature and people. Also forget god's sake, please for yourself and your children convince the not so fortunately poor people to have some FAMILY PLANNING and not have a dozen kids geez...I dont have any cousins and I see one couple so often on the streets with 6-7 kids and they dont even own anyplace to live. They might be beyond our help but the ones who are reaching their age please! try and convince them for family planning as often as anyone can.

/end vent + rant and awaits many critics to crush my views

Also- I have to switch my avr on every 15 minutes from power outages I'm sure others can relate to this frustration as you worked hard to earn what you have.

 

[thevortex]

We are impatient, divisive and intelligent, Corelement. An extremely dangerous combination.

Mostly our problems related to resources are all that can be traced to numbers. But then numbers alone dont begin to explain the reasons. As you rightly point out, China is ahead on many counts. But the Chinese at least did not have to battle problems related to multiple languages, multiple religions, divisive, sectarian and destructive politics. We are unique, yes. But we are trying to use that uniqueness in every which way to bring ourselves down - instead of the opposite.

Dont expect anybody to crush your views. Everybody living in India belongs to the group of people with no illusions. It is only the expatriates who still harbour romantic notions and rosy pictures of our land. Sad but true.

 

[deba]

No vocabulary can portray our emotion of being in an awful situation.
We are so corrupt, fraud and crooked that our very survival on earth has become doubtful.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Vote, guys... Vote!

The leaders are there because they have been elected by the people.

Of course, if you then ask me who for, then I am sadly at a loss to know who might lead India forward into the future...

Disclaimer: I'm a foreigner, and, however much I may care about India's future, I will never have the right to that tiny-but-vital paper-in-a-ballot-box say in it.

 

[gobble]

I understand your frustration. I gave up a good opportunity to work and live abroad 10 yeas back out of the same sentiments and I regret it every now and then when I step out of my home. And now every day I question my decision and wonder if I should still try and make it.

People lack very basic manners here. You will notice how people rush in and out of doorways without looking if anyone is on his way across already. Every other time, I almost collide with somebody. On your way to the wash basin in a restaurant? Somebody is sure to cut across almost stepping over you in the process and spend the next 10 mins gargling and splashing noisily at your feet.

ME FIRST!! Thats the motto! And the result of my politeness and consideration has always been that I am last in the queue everywhere. Then you have these "progressive" generation that also speaks English who will counsel you triumphantly and gloatingly that one has to be a winner and this is nothing but a go getter attitude... sigh!


And the actual result of this Me First attitude is that all these people are such losers when compared to how a common person enjoys ordinary day-to-day life in western society. Or they will say this is only possible in their society not ours for the reason they dont want to be "losers".

I came to the strong conclusion a decade back - our society is riddled with a hidden epidemic nobody has exposed - one of borderline dysfunctional Narcissism. Every family seems to have somebody influential with the sickness. Husbands, wives, parents, grandparents, uncles, aunts... I think thats the primary reason for such behavior. Its not just corruption in public administration.

Regards

 

[sachin_k5]

I have seen three types of indians

1. The Armchair critic (Most Common) : This person like to blame governments, others for a bad situation. Other than this does not do anything.

2. The Escape artist : This person finds it easier to run off to some other country rather than change things in his own.

3. The Change bringer (Very rare) : This person when sees a issue gathers resources to handle the issue. Does not give up easily. Brings social change.

Where do you fall ? The foreigner is right. We are all educated and the world system has given us Democracy. What more powerful weapons can you ask for ?

Don't even compare China to India. In China, for things you have written in your post (blaming the government) they will put you in jail hyeah: For all the fancy dancy their human rights violations are eerily unknown

If you feel something around you is not right..take action..speak to the MLA, form groups for betterment, create awareness. If you see trees being pruned then start a tree plantation drive. If an educated and young citizen like you don't do it, who will ?

 

[avidyarthy]

And the same Indian, when abroad is a totally different being all-together. Following all the rules, getting the civic basics right first time. Why is it so??? Has anybody tried to analyse this?

I have a gut feeling that 190 years of 'slavery' has had its effect. In addittion to that, always remember the English conquest allowed the disintegrated people to again think as one, but what remained in the back of the head remains to this day.

I am giving a very simple example here, though not directly connected. Being connected with an MNC have to interact with the 'white' skin a bit too often. I have seen most of my colleagues 'putting' on an accent the moment they have a speak to them. Hey Pals, them are from Sweden and those guys are not so taped up in the Anglais lingo, so why do you need to add a 'push' to the language you can handle easily, without any effort?

 

[venkatcr]

I have seen most of my colleagues 'putting' on an accent the moment they have a speak to them.

I strongly feel the Indian accent of grammatically correct English is the best in the world. I have never had any issue communicating with people from any part of the world, other than those, of course, who do not understand English.

I used to joke sometime ago that the minute an Indian gets a US Visa he puts on a accent. Nowadays it has become better. He/she gets an accent the minute he applies for a passport !

We have lots of issues, I agree. But there are also lots of things to be proud about, also. I reckon the biggest reason for our hassles is the humongous population we have and the number of people all clamouring for limited resources. Political leaders and others have recognised this and have been taking advantage of for a long time.

Cheers

 

[suri]

I used to joke sometime ago that the minute an Indian gets a US Visa he puts on a accent. Nowadays it has become better. He/she gets an accent the minute he applies for a passport !

hehehe! venkatcr - i have a friend who received a letter from her aunt in the U.S.A. - and spoke in (american) accented english thereafter!

 

[venkatcr]

hehehe! venkatcr - i have a friend who received a letter from her aunt in the U.S.A. - and spoke in (american) accented english thereafter!

Shucks, beaten again!

Cheers

 

[thevortex]

Sachin_k5 - complaining to the local MLA? Please tell me you are kidding!

The politicians are the problem.

Voting, you say, Thad? Fine, voting, I agree. But what are you supposed to do when the political parties knock on people's doors and hand over envelopes containing money (Rs. 500 per head) to every house in every locality of a city before election? Nothing much, right?

The issue was that I was asleep when this guy came knocking with a big list. Otherwise I would have surely given him a piece of my mind. But the bigger perspective is that I probably am sitting here and typing this out to you guys perhaps because I was asleep that day

 

[gobble]

I have a gut feeling that 190 years of 'slavery' has had its effect. In addittion to that, always remember the English conquest allowed the disintegrated people to again think as one, but what remained in the back of the head remains to this day.

The last 190 years have been very trivial compared to the cultural oppression most on India has endured for the last 1000. You believe that because you have not questioned your education. To believe one is educated because he or she went to a modern Indian school is a serious mistake. The amount of brainwashing you have experienced about Indian history and its cultural past is incredible. It is like many layers of an Onion, you peel of one layer of untruth to discover another that acted as the foundation for the earlier one and so on ...

To really understand the truth you have to dig deep underground take down and maintain notes over time and follow a chain of references never revealed in casual searches on google. Because the Media continues this propaganda game in life outside school. The mental slavery continues today. If you "follow" Indian TV read Indian newspapers or CNN or BBC or west Asian media and if your knowledge of Indian cultural legacy is derived from popular books and popular sites on the Internet, then you can assume (to your bewilderment) that you are an "idiot" being taken for a ride.

Today if I had a child I would strictly supervise his history lessons and teach him to piss on the heads of history teachers who insist on maintaining a version of history as prescribed in our ssc/cbse/ncert/icse text books and stand up in class and speak all the things unsaid that may be politically incorrect. All "legitimate" sources need to be viewed with a healthy suspicion - provided you are on the trail and doing personal research in your spare time (else you will be labeled a paranoid schizo )


I wouldn't believe for example the popular reasons dished out for India's sophisticated system of corruption and black economy. It is really a system that has evolved over many many centuries to counter back breaking and "humiliating" tax imposed upon locals by conquerors. You may find it very hard to come across non euro-centric historical sources, but actually there are those stray acknowledgements from experts in accounting and banking of many centuries back - that the Gujjus knew banking better than the Europeans (who are credited with developing it in official and "approved" accounts of history). It is this Indian "genius" in reality that gave rise to a healthy counter culture to resist oppressive economic policies imposed upon Indian locals by the conquerors. (On a lesser level - much like the individual character in popular American culture who avoids credit cards to stay underground - in movies like Terminator). The sophisticated Indian methods of keeping books of accounts and dealing in a manner to conceal income and siphon money were originally all part of attempts to subvert terribly unjust governance . The reason they are so sophisticated is that they have evolved over centuries through trial and error.

Thus it is not an Indian "genius" for being corrupt or hoodwinking that is responsible for all our problems as the "popular" notions is impressed upon our unsuspecting minds. There is NO moral turpitude on part of Indians that exceeds the moral degradation exhibited by the west as judged by history. This viewpoint is a British construct. If anything India has been the dominant civilizing force going back a few millennium. If you live abroad and follow local news items you will find dirty pathetic deplorable corrupt unjust instances of behavior everyday in their news reports.

Rather, as in this example it is a solution to a prior problem in our past history now maladapted and exploited to benefit a greedy few today. to the impediment of good governance in modern India,

Likewise the unjust callous and brutal behavior of todays police force is inherited from the social (in)justice system put in place for many centuries prior to British rule. It did not arise during British rule and their attempts to suppress and quell the rebellious masses, but has a history of deliberate and systematized discrimination that goes back more than a few 100 centuries in time. The true extent of social injustice endured is suppressed by all the history books. It will take a few years of dogged pursuit of deliberately obscured historical reading sources and commentaries to see it all with the clarity as if it happened just yesterday. That is why unhealthy and anti-social practices and methods of policing are so fossilized in our country and so hard to uproot. It is a continuation of what has always been in place - the way policing was always implemented at least in "conscious" cultural memory

Then of course there are minor elements in our society that demand first class treatment from our cops (like American Citizens demand) while they go about fostering riots and violence in society as witnessed in Bareilly recently. And the Indian media supports them by suppressing their acts of extremely rabid and sustained violence in the mainstream news, working to a larger game plan .... Thankfully the media is not the only channel of information to people and whole of India knows the story of media duplicity today.

But like another forum member pointed out - this is of interest only to armchair critiques. The responsibility to act and improve our collective lot depends on us all irrespective of the past. For the sake of our children.

The historical origins and psyche that led to the creation of such systems that undermine the modern economy and governance is only of intellectual interest to those devising a strategy to tackle the menace... or people who like to ponder over a single malt about everything under the universe. hyeah:

Cheers

 

[suri]

No vocabulary can portray our emotion of being in an awful situation.
We are so corrupt, fraud and crooked that our very survival on earth has become doubtful.

hi deba,

it will be a virus, supposedly, that will kill off 95.883% of the human population in 2013 -

so let us forget all this - and enjoy the good earth till we die - and a horrible death it will be -

these symptoms are predicted - a slight tremor of the extremities start about 24 hours after virus enters the body - progressing within 6 hours to an uncontrollable (oddissi dance type) flailing of the limbs - intense blinking follows after which the eyeballs pop out- bleeding starts from all natural openings and the person dies - a horrible death to watch and to suffer.

this being the sure case - let us be merry, let us piss (!) in public, spit red betel juice patterns on the walls of the official residence of the superintendent of police, let us jump queues with lightning speed -and overtake vehicles on the wrong side - if you have an R-15 or a CBR 600 RR do not miss out on high speed filtering (just like in Matrix)

best wishes - we'll meet in heaven

oops, i forgot - handbrake turns to startle the grannies into massive heart-attacks - and to fit illegal air-horns and blast them outside the intensive care units of the local hospital.

 

[corElement]

this being the sure case - let us be merry, let us piss (!) in public, spit red betel juice patterns on the walls of the official residence of the superintendent of police, let us jump queues with lightning speed -and overtake vehicles on the wrong side

oops, i forgot - handbrake turns to startle the grannies into massive heart-attacks - and to fit illegal air-horns and blast them outside the intensive care units of the local hospital.

rofl
this reminds me of devang patel's song

"thoo, raste pe thookna thooOOOooo theatre peh thookna, thoooOOOo hospital peh thookna, tHooOOOoo bus pe seh thookna - thookna na re thookna - jahaan jage mile thookna - THOOOO"

 

[suri]

rofl
this reminds me of devang patel's song

"thoo, raste pe thookna thooOOOooo theatre peh thookna, thoooOOOo hospital peh thookna, tHooOOOoo bus pe seh thookna - thookna na re thookna - jahaan jage mile thookna - THOOOO"

hi corElement - hehehe!
this devang patel sounds like a nice guy!

 

[corElement]

I love devang patel, his songs are better than the originals XD

YouTube - Devang Patel - Aye Raju

 

[murali]

We have lots of issues, I agree. But there are also lots of things to be proud about, also. I reckon the biggest reason for our hassles is the humongous population we have and the number of people all clamouring for limited resources. Political leaders and others have recognised this and have been taking advantage of for a long time.

Cheers

I beg to differ.

Here in the Middle East, this is the best place to judge the behaviour of our people relative to several other expat societies in an environment of established distinction w.r.t. race, skin color, passport etc etc. The most astonishing thing I have observed is our people's tendency to belittle our own folks in order to prove their merit, something I never notice among the other communities! This is very much prevalent in the work environment and even extends (many times) as far as the typical North-South-East-West divides we have seen in our country. Other communities stick together and try to survive on their individual merits or collective efforts whereas we guys make it a point always to create a oneupmanship over our own groups. What is most disgusting is the Punjabi-Mallu-Mahrathi-Madrasi-etc type groupisms. Why, even among we Mallus, we have Trivandrum, Cochin, Kozhikode etc subgroups and even inside Trivandrum block, we have Nanthancode, Thycaud etc more subgroups.

"Divide and rule" --- it seems to be still in our genes. Are we a nation or a hotchpotch of specimen collections?

cheers.
murali

 

[nitinbose]

India's major problem is the high population in ratio to the land size/resources available. Add to it the differences in economic levels among people, literacy differences and cultural differences - hence the difficulty we face when it comes to certain areas.

I've been to several countries and based on my experience I would say that India has problems and so does other countries in their own ways.

We normally see the pictures/videos of other coutries and draw our own conclusions, however, when you look closely, the situations are many a times worse than India.

So the bottom line is that we should start giving credit to what we have and try to improve. Am sure, everyone has notices a lot of improvements in the recent years. I do agree that the changes are quite slow than expected but do understand India had grown explosively - much much faster than anticipated.

 

[captrajesh]

I think the biggest problem is 'Adult Franchisee' and too much democracy. There is neither social conscience nor social responsibility.

(Coming from an Ex Army man, you may not find the above statement surprising but trust me I believe in full freedom & quit Army because I found the strict regimentation not to my liking. I want freedom but there is some amount of responsibility one should own up for being free)

Add to that, the deadly nexus of Politician-Criminal-Bureaucrat and you know how aam janata is taken for a royal ride. I'll quote a very senior officer who rose to the rank of Deputy Governer of RBI whom I had close interactions with, "Actually there is a parallel economy running in this country."

There was a furore of bringing back the billions stashed away in swiss Banks. What happened? The swiss had the temerity to show us the door because they know that we talk in two voices. Official voice and Real voice.

Official voice would make politically correct statements and the real voice would act for the benefit of the high and influential. Swedes learnt this the hard way. Take the example of Quadrocchi. Many more actually if you dig through history.

Do you really think we cannot extradite so many fugitives that are roaming freely in safe havens leading luxurious lives beyond most Indians' imagination.

Owing to the proximity to the power centre, the bureaucracy has been successful in consolidating its position and is the most powerful institution without the proportional responsibility. Take the example of Mumbai carnage. Home Minister was sacked and a few police officers were transferred. What happened to the principal and the home secretaries? They both went scot free. Senior level bureaucrats seldom sign any document which can later nail them.

If anyone is interested, PM me & I'll share with you an exhaustive statement made by a very senior Army officer about the responsibility of the bureaucrats with umpteen examples substantiating the statement.

Every other institution is trying to take its own pound of the flesh called power and garnering as much as possible.

What can you do as an individual. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

Differ with me? Please go ahead. All the best to you.

I'm 43 years old and my blood is not hot enough. So what I'll do is to listen to our super gyani SURI and abide by it.

 

[sachin_k5]

Sachin_k5 - complaining to the local MLA? Please tell me you are kidding!

The politicians are the problem.

Voting, you say, Thad? Fine, voting, I agree. But what are you supposed to do when the political parties knock on people's doors and hand over envelopes containing money (Rs. 500 per head) to every house in every locality of a city before election? Nothing much, right?

The issue was that I was asleep when this guy came knocking with a big list. Otherwise I would have surely given him a piece of my mind. But the bigger perspective is that I probably am sitting here and typing this out to you guys perhaps because I was asleep that day

Let me give you two examples. A spot at Prem Nagar, Borivali, Mumbai was vacant and after sometime became a watering hole for drug addicts and anti social elements. The residents got together and took their demands to the local corporator. Today the area has been turned into MFC sports complex and garden.

A 4 acre spot of land behind our building was lying vacant, again the same issue, people would gather to drink and do drugs. Area folks got together took the issue to the local MLA, the MLA allocated funds from his development budget and the place now is a beautiful garden.

If you go alone with a complain you won't be heard. Take up a cause, launch a signature compaign, form a group of like minded people and then go. All this takes a lot of hard work hence no one wants to do it. Be the change you want to see in the world - Mahatma Gandhi

What can you do as an individual. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

All we have to do is improve small things around us. A soldier should only be concerned about killing the enemy in front of him to win the battle, he should be worried about the war since he can't influence it.