A taste of the future: Analog sounding Digital amplifiers

[corElement]

I found this to help us understand how these direct digital pwm amps work as compared to traditional ones and solid state ones with square wave signals.

Very interesting,


Here's two more high end class D

http://www.stereophile.com/content/nad-m2-direct-digital-integrated-amplifier

http://www.stereophile.com/musicintheround/music_in_the_round_35

 

[sidvee]

I owned a Belcanto s300 amp.for about 3 years. A very nice amp., but I always felt that Class A/AB was better in overall resolution. I made the comparison with similar priced equipment, in this case specifically the Odysssey stratos extreme (both are priced in the $1500 - $2000 range). In terms of sound signature I felt the Belcanto tended towards the cool, clinical and more analytical side of the spectrum. Nothing wrong with that, provided one has affinity towards that type of sound. Of-course one also has to weigh the practicality of these designs, this amp. weighed 4kg and put out no heat and could be fitted into a tight space. OTOH the Odyssey weighs 35kg and needs a large, well ventilated space. I will be keenly watching developments in this technology and maybe in the future will own another so called Class D design.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[corElement]

I owned a Belcanto s300 amp.for about 3 years. A very nice amp., but I always felt that Class A/AB was better in overall resolution. I made the comparison with similar priced equipment, in this case specifically the Odysssey stratos extreme (both are priced in the $1500 - $2000 range). In terms of sound signature I felt the Belcanto tended towards the cool, clinical and more analytical side of the spectrum. Nothing wrong with that, provided one has affinity towards that type of sound. Of-course one also has to weigh the practicality of these designs, this amp. weighed 4kg and put out no heat and could be fitted into a tight space. OTOH the Odyssey weighs 35kg and needs a large, well ventilated space. I will be keenly watching developments in this technology and maybe in the future will own another so called Class D design.
Cheers,
Sid

Most definitely, I feel the practical aspects gained in this round of 2012's direct digital powered dacs are their main strengths, The bel canto's from what I've seen are still somewhat traditional class D. Like for example how the 2012 Direct Digital NAD M2 $5k and NAD C 390DD $2.5k powered dac challenged a setup 5-6 times their value in component costs itself.

No filter
No front end-DAC
No interconnects
No terminations
No multiple stages of analog amplification
No preamp
No analog volume control
No suicidal heat
No huge heat sinks
No massive transformer
No massive transportation costs
No need for large open spaces
No square wave artifacts to damage drivers


Very hard to ignore the elimination of such parameters. These 2012 models have the potential to become the basis for future amplification products within 2-3 more generations. The only thing left for the end user would be speaker matching to suit their taste and how the amp handles dynamic presentation speaker to speaker.

 

[hemantwaghe]

Most definitely, I feel the practical aspects gained in this round of 2012's direct digital powered dacs are their main strengths, The bel canto's from what I've seen are still somewhat traditional class D. Like for example how the 2012 Direct Digital NAD M2 $5k and NAD C 390DD $2.5k powered dac challenged a setup 5-6 times their value in component costs itself.

No filter
No front end-DAC
No interconnects
No terminations
No multiple stages of analog amplification
No preamp
No analog volume control
No need for huge heat sinks
No fan for cooling
No massive transformer
No massive transportation costs
No suicidal heat
No need for large open spaces to use them in
No square wave artifacts to damage drivers


Very hard to ignore the elimination of such parameters. These 2012 models have the potential to become the basis for future amplification products within 2-3 more generations. The only thing left for the end user would be speaker matching to suit their taste and how the amp handles dynamic presentation speaker to speaker.

@ Corr in your research found any fully digital amp with lesser price say US$ 150 US$ 300? My expectation may seem laughable but right now prices falling fast so Corr or any FM any full digital amp??

 

[Staxxx]

Interesting developments. For the last few years my system has been digital all the way from source to power amplifier....quite revolutionary when developed almost five years ago. So the DACs are in the power amp. But the amplification is not Class D so would not be comparable to the new Class D amps about.
On the Class D amps, certainly I concur that the Bel Canto amps that I have heard (over five years ago) were cool and clinical. I have also heard the Tact.

For those interested, I found this slightly out of date list posted by an audiogon member of manufacturers of Class D amps:

Acoustic Reality
eAR202, etc (ICEPower)

Aivin
DT300 (Tripath)

Analog Research Technology

AudioArt (NL)
Van Medevoort MA240 (Hypex UcD)

Audiodigit
MC 8x100 (Tripath)

AudioResearch
150.2, 300.2, 150M (Tripath)

AV123
X-Empower, xAmp (prelaunch)
(Philips class-D?)

B&O
(ICEPower)

BelCanto
Evo (Tripath) eOne (ICEPower)

Bertram
(ICEPower)

Carver
300.2, 700.2, 1200.2

Cary Audio
A 306 power amplifier

Channel Islands Audio
D100, D200 (Hypex UcD)

Chapter Audio
Couplet Power Amp (proprietary WMP class-D)

D-Sonic
Magnum (ICEPower)

DIYCable
Exodus (Hypex UcD)

Egosys
Audiotrak DrAMP (Tripath)

Elan
D1200, D1600 (12 and 16 channel power amps, Tripath)

Electronic Visionary Systems
EVS-2 (ICEPower)

Flying Mole
(proprietary class-D)

Gilmore Audio
Raven, Raptor, Dragonfly m/ch (looks like ICE)

Halcro
Lyrus

H2O Audio
M250, M500 (ICEpower)

Integra /Onkyo
DTA 9.4 7x120W 8?

Jeff Rowland
(ICEPower)

Jjaz Audio
(ICEPower)

Kharma
MP150

LC Audio
Predator SE (ZapPulse)

Marantz
Opsodis ES-150 (D2Audio) 2ch virtual surround

Medius [DK]
A II, A III

MG Audiolabs
Symphony (Hypex UcD)

Midgard Audio
(ICEPower)

MindCraft (NL)
Media Amp One (Hypex UcD)

Murano-Audio
P500, P1000 (ICEPower)

NHT
Power2 (ICEpower)

Nuforce
Ref 8, Ref 8b, Ref 9 (nPhysics proprietary class-D)

NuVo Technologies
NV-P2100

Onkyo
A-1VL, A-9755, A-9555 (?)

PSAudio
GCA, GCMC (ICEPower)

Red Dragon Audio
(ICEpower)

RedWineAudio
Clari-T, Lotus (Tripath)

Rotel
1077 (7x100), 1092 (2x500) (ICEPower)

Sharp
SM-SX1, SM-SX100

Sonneteer
Bront (Tripath)

Sony
TA-DA9000ES, TA-FA1200ES (S-Master)

Spectron
Musician, Troubador (int amp w digital inputs)

TactAudio/Lyngford
Millennium & others (Equibit)

TEAC Esoteric
AZ-1 pre-main

ThetaDigital
Virtu PowerDAC (Zetex class-Z)

UniwaveTek
Anaco II

Yamaha
MX-D1

Sorry this post is so long with the list. Hope it is of interest to someone.

 

[subhobh]

Class D amplifiers and digital amplification is definitely the future of AV industry. If that would be able to replace analog technology or not, only future can say.

The quality of Class D amplifiers and the musicality factor of that are increasing day by day!! Though, I have auditioned many of them, would still be interested on trying some latest generation digital amplification gears.

@corElement, thanks for bringing this..

 

[corElement]

Guess what?

Lakozy is getting the NAD M2 Direct Digital Amp to the delhi hi-fi meet on Jan 13!
http://www.hifivision.com/av-lounge...urgaon-ncr-audiophile-meet-24.html#post455934

 

[serum]

75 watts @ 4 ohms is not that bad......I think it is enough power for most of the speakers ..... Does anyone know if A2V in Mumbai have it for demo or plan to have it?

From Nuforce site, (audiovision India) are the distributors. Found out that they have the full range including the Reference monoblocs. Understand the pricing should be close to 15% of international (rationalized thinking?). will demo very soon.

 

[corElement]

From Nuforce site, (audiovision India) are the distributors. Found out that they have the full range including the Reference monoblocs. Understand the pricing should be close to 15% of international (rationalized thinking?). will demo very soon.

Those are not Direct Digital with usb input, they're normal amplifiers.

 

[jai1611]

From Nuforce site, (audiovision India) are the distributors. Found out that they have the full range including the Reference monoblocs. Understand the pricing should be close to 15% of international (rationalized thinking?). will demo very soon.

I'd be surprised if AVI price them that well

 

[pt121pt]

Those are not Direct Digital with usb input, they're normal amplifiers.

I recently bought a Sonus Faber speaker from Audio Vision and while I was waiting there I heard the new Nuforce digital amp on a pair of B&W PM1's , quite amazing performance for a small (relatively cheap) amp. Very impressed by the performance. No wonder it was product of the year in The Absolute Sound mag.

 

[serum]

Those are not Direct Digital with usb input, they're normal amplifiers.

You are right the Refs are not Digital amps. I was actually refering to the DDA100 which they have on demo.

 

[corElement]

You are right the Refs are not Digital amps. I was actually refering to the DDA100 which they have on demo.

Oh they have them here? Please let us know whats the price when you demo them!

 

[Audio_Freek]

I recently bought a Sonus Faber speaker from Audio Vision and while I was waiting there I heard the new Nuforce digital amp on a pair of B&W PM1's , quite amazing performance for a small (relatively cheap) amp. Very impressed by the performance. No wonder it was product of the year in The Absolute Sound mag.

PT121T,

I have some crush towards Sonus faber build quality and also excellent reviews.Could you just share the speaker model which you own and cost for same?If possible or if you remember the other models which you audition\available with Audio vision?

Thanks for reply

 

[panditji]

I recently bought a Sonus Faber speaker from Audio Vision and while I was waiting there I heard the new Nuforce digital amp on a pair of B&W PM1's , quite amazing performance for a small (relatively cheap) amp. Very impressed by the performance. No wonder it was product of the year in The Absolute Sound mag.

Do let us know which speakers you heard with the Nu Force DDA 100 so that we can get an idea how well the amp can drive the speakers.....Also what is your listening impression of the amp and whether it was powerful enough to drive regular speakers?

Mumbai members, would be grateful if you guys can audition and let us know details about the DDA 100 .... Eagerly looking forward to it...

 

[arhantd]

Here is another cheaper option from QLS China.
Seems really interesting.

60W per channel @ 8 Ohms. $390 + $50 Shipping to India.

QA100--Full Digital Stereo Amplifier

Digital Audio Review by John Darko

 

[keith_correa]

@ Corr in your research found any fully digital amp with lesser price say US$ 150 US$ 300? My expectation may seem laughable but right now prices falling fast so Corr or any FM any full digital amp??

Hemant: you know what I would do? I would buy this

I'm sure that fully built, in half the price of the nuForce, you would get ~90% (if not more) of its sound.

 

[corElement]

I found this graphic for those who might be confused as to what the big fuss is all about.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

This could be just me being electronically naive (I am)...

I'm surprised to see buffers in the analogue diagram. How does an amp store analogue signals in a buffer? How much does it store?

A DAC takes a digital signal, and converts it to an analogue signal at line level. Is a Digital amp like a DAC, but outputting a signal high enough to be sent direct to speakers?

 

[corElement]

This could be just me being electronically naive (I am)...

I'm surprised to see buffers in the analogue diagram. How does an amp store analogue signals in a buffer? How much does it store?

It would probably vary amp to amp, but in general every single stage/component is parasitic in some manner or the other.

A DAC takes a digital signal, and converts it to an analogue signal at line level. Is a Digital amp like a DAC, but outputting a signal high enough to be sent direct to speakers?

Bingo, which is why they're being called "powered dac"